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Sure
Guest
Do you think St. Alphonsus was being a bit dramatic? Or do you think all the priests really wept?
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Sr_Sally
Guest
Goodness! I love St Alphonsus, but I do think his style is a bit dramatic. And even if every priest did weep, the use of the maniple was as a hanky or tissue. Perhaps practical, but that is all (and I don’t think wiping your eyes on a bit of stiff linen embroidered with glit would be a very good idea anyway).
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Andreas_Hofer
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A real theological reason would be that the maniple, despite having outlived its practical purpose, acquired a symbolic meaning. Another theological reason would be that the Church is a traditional organism, and places high (even default) value on what has been used for so long. Do I think the Church has fallen apart because the maniple has effectively disappeared? No. I just wanted to point out that when many people say “no reason” that usually means “no reason I can see” or “no reason that seems compelling enough to me.”
The Angelic Doctor was wrong about the Immaculate Conception. Or are you saying he was right?!?!
The ancient liturgical sources and histories that I’ve read have never made mention of the priest weeping continuously throughout the liturgy. You’d think it would have made it into a fair amount of them if this were really so common an occurrence.
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AJV
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I have no clue.
Strictly speaking, it can be argued that *Tres Abhinc Annos *pertained to the TLM as it existed at the time, and not to the NO. And there is an argument that what is explicitly omitted in the new Missal that was in the old can be assumed as suppressed. I’m reasonably sure that if the CDW was presented with a dubium on the matter in 1970’s it would have been declared so. However, I think the modern CDW is more sympathetic and I’ve read that Cardinal Arinze supposedly approved of it.
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paramedicgirl
Guest
I don’t know about that - it sounds like pretty good penance to me!
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paramedicgirl
Guest
Ummm…what are you talking about??? I never mentioned the Immaculate Conception. Are you throwing curve balls here?
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paramedicgirl
Guest
Padre Pio wept continuously throughout the Holy Mass.
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Hellisreal
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What does that have to do with the *Immaculate Conception *anyway?
LOL!
Thanks for the posts- I did not know this about Padre Pio. Or Doctor St. Alphonsus de Liquori either.
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AJV
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I love that spirit!
I think Andreas’ point was that being a Doctor of the Church doesn’t necessarily mean that he was right on everything.
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Sr_Sally
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Pious_Mat
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While we’re talking about vestments, I thought I’d mention another question about them that’s been bothering me.
Everyday at weekday Mass, one of the priests in my parish (they both share this habit) just wear an alb with tall, hood-like collar, and a stole. No cincture, no chasuble.I think that this is rather disrespectful, especially since they only show up ten minutes before the mass (their only one of the day). I remember reading somewhere that the main celebrant should always wear a chasuble.
Although I probably won’t be telling this to either (although I rarely complain, they seem to look at me askew whenever I talk about religious matters, like I’m “the wacky traditionalist”) I’d like to know for my own benefit if this is okay.
Everyday at weekday Mass, one of the priests in my parish (they both share this habit) just wear an alb with tall, hood-like collar, and a stole. No cincture, no chasuble.I think that this is rather disrespectful, especially since they only show up ten minutes before the mass (their only one of the day). I remember reading somewhere that the main celebrant should always wear a chasuble.
Although I probably won’t be telling this to either (although I rarely complain, they seem to look at me askew whenever I talk about religious matters, like I’m “the wacky traditionalist”) I’d like to know for my own benefit if this is okay.
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palmas85
Guest
You should be glad they go that far. I’ve seen them in blue jeans, a work shirt and a stole. At least yours wear an alb.
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ASimpleSinner
Guest
shirt sleeves will do in a pinch…
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Andreas_Hofer
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Thank you, AJV, that was precisely my point. Paramedicgirl, you asked if someone was accusing St. Alphonsus, a doctor, of being wrong on this point, so I provided an example of a doctor who was wrong about a dogma. How much more should we be free to accuse a doctor of being wrong about history? I can’t confirm with 100% certainty that St. Alphonsus’ history of the maniple is incorrect, but I’m saying the sources don’t seem to support it.I love that spirit!
I think Andreas’ point was that being a Doctor of the Church doesn’t necessarily mean that he was right on everything.
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paramedicgirl
Guest
We should be glad that our priests barely display a true commitment to their divine office? Showing up ten minutes before Mass writes off any opportunity for those who want to confess their sins before Mass. Oh, I forgot. You have to make an appointment for confession these days. Priests who sit in the confessional waiting for penitents are few and far between. God bless them.
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paramedicgirl
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The Immaculate Conception wasn’t a defined dogma in St Alphonsus’ days, though. I guess it’s OK for him to be wrong on it then?
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