Can a Protestant minister co-officiate at the marriage of two Catholics?

[BettyBoop416]

No.

Either the couples marries in th Catholic form and the priest is the officiant OR the couples gets a dispensation from form and the non-Catholic minister officiates and receives the consent and vows.

They cannot co-officiate.

While I have no doubt that you are correct, I have attended two weddings where a family member of the bride or groom was a protestant clergyman. In both cases the minister was invited to participate in the ceremony. (Neither of these weddings took place within a mass.) In both cases the minister wore his vestments and shared “sermon duty” with the priest.

 

[Irishgal49]

Correct - my bad…

If the OP doesn’t become Catholic (in process) before the wedding a dispensation could be given (if her intended is Catholic)

 

[1ke]

While I have no doubt that you are correct, I have attended two weddings where a family member of the bride or groom was a protestant clergyman. In both cases the minister was invited to participate in the ceremony. (Neither of these weddings took place within a mass.) In both cases the minister wore his vestments and shared “sermon duty” with the priest.

While the homily and such definitely violates the rubrics, allowing the protestant minister receive the vows could have actually resulted in an invalid marriage. So, a priest who does crazy stuff like this does not do the couple any favors. This is a serious matter.

 

[Therana]

Just a question here.

When is your wedding date? Is it after the Easter Vigil, once you become Catholic? Or is it before?

If it is before you become Catholic, then no problem, dad can officiate, and do the whole thing.

The Church considers protestants married in their own churches, prior to their conversion to the Catholic faith to be valid.

We were planning on having the wedding next summer, but due to financial reasons (not so much that my family can’t afford the wedding as my fiance and I cannot afford to be financially independent just yet), we will probably have to put it off until summer 2014 or winter 2013 at the earliest. I don’t want to wait that long to join the Church. It is more important for me to be in full communion with Christ’s Church than it is for me to have my dad officiate at my wedding.

My fiance is already a baptized Catholic, but his parents lapsed and he wasn’t raised in the Church, hence the need to go to RCIA. So even if we were to get married before we converted, we would have to get a dispensation of form anyway.

 

[Therana]

While the homily and such definitely violates the rubrics, allowing the protestant minister receive the vows could have actually resulted in an invalid marriage. So, a priest who does crazy stuff like this does not do the couple any favors. This is a serious matter.

This is definitely my main concern. Despite my attachment to my father and wanting to have our wedding “the way we imagined it”, I do not want our marriage to be invalid. I’ll defer to what the Bishop decides on this matter. Worst case scenario, my father could give a special speech and prayer at the reception, and I think that would be enough to make everyone happy.

 

[anruari]

I would say the following.

Don’t be too put-off by the some of the Legalistic Hard-Liners on here. If your Bishop OK’s things and provides the necessary dispensations your marriage will be Valid.
Remember you confer this sacrament on each other. You are doing it before your God, Your Church, Your Families and your friends.

You fully intend you marriage to be a Blessed, Sacramental, valid marriage. You are entering into it with full freedom of will and (Hopefully) a proper understanding of what all that means. You have said you intend to be obedient to the Bishops response to your requests.
These are the important things. These are what would determine the validity or otherwise of your marriage.
The Doctrine and Beliefs are what is important. The disciplines of Cannon Law can be flexible when they need to be - that is up to your Bishop (and not we lay people on here). He better understands the needs and also has the authority to apply cannon law how he sees fit in his own Diosese.

2 people have posted what looks like conflicting rules about the Homily / Sermon. Both are quoting authoritative sources. They may look like they conflict, but actually they don’t.

The way I would read this is that the priest is obliged to preach a Homily, or have another validly ordained member of the Catholic Clergy preach a Homily (Deacon, Presbyter or Bishop).
(Unfortunately many priests are deliquint in this responsibility - especially at daily Masses but also on other occasions like Sundays permitting other lay visitors to preach or make appeals or announcements after the Gospel without themselves giving the required Homily. I have witnessed this throughout my Life.)
Another person can still preach or teach at the same celebration. But the Priest or his deacon must still give a Homily (however brief).
If the Priest permitted your Dad to give the Homily and did not give one himself this would constitute a “Liturgical Abuse” - but not one which would invalidate either the Sacrament of the Eucharist, nor the Sacrament of Matrimony

As Catholics you marry eachother. the priest does not do this. The Priest must witness it, and receive it on behalf of the church and of God. There should also be a specified number of other witnesses.

It very well may be possible for the Bishop to allow your Dad to lead you through the vows while the Priest is also present. That would be *His *decision. That falls under *His * authority.

There may be other significant ways he can get involved. (as suggested)

Have you seen this website:

gettingmarried.ie

it’s a Catholic website set up by the dioceses of Dublin in Ireland that provides a great tool for planning your Catholic wedding ceremony. - Right down to designing and printing up Missalettes or Orders-Of Service.

It is good that you are putting a lot of thought and planning into the Wedding Ceremony itself. I have heard many people complain that many people put way more effort into planning the party than the wedding itself or the marriage. Don’t fall into these traps. (Though It sounds like you are planning carefully)

 

[zz912]

We were planning on having the wedding next summer, but due to financial reasons (not so much that my family can’t afford the wedding as my fiance and I cannot afford to be financially independent just yet), we will probably have to put it off until summer 2014 or winter 2013 at the earliest. I don’t want to wait that long to join the Church. It is more important for me to be in full communion with Christ’s Church than it is for me to have my dad officiate at my wedding.

My fiance is already a baptized Catholic, but his parents lapsed and he wasn’t raised in the Church, hence the need to go to RCIA. So even if we were to get married before we converted, we would have to get a dispensation of form anyway.

I’m curious, and feel free to ignore if you don’t want to disclose if the questions are too personal (my feelings won’t be hurt).

Are both you and your fiance living with your parents or other relatives? If you are living on your own (or one of you is living on their own), why wouldn’t you be able to support yourselves together? One household is cheaper than two. And if your parents are willing to support your for the next year or two, why wouldn’t they be willing to help your as a couple for the next couple of years?

For my wife and I, we had a long engagement to save up for our wedding, which we were paying the lion’s share of and saving up for. But it was tough to deal with the long engagement when we wanted to be married. I certainly wouldn’t want my daughters to delay their marriages over money if there was a way to get them financially okay.

 

[Therana]

I would say the following.

Don’t be too put-off by the some of the Legalistic Hard-Liners on here. If your Bishop OK’s things and provides the necessary dispensations your marriage will be Valid.
Remember you confer this sacrament on each other. You are doing it before your God, Your Church, Your Families and your friends.

You fully intend you marriage to be a Blessed, Sacramental, valid marriage. You are entering into it with full freedom of will and (Hopefully) a proper understanding of what all that means. You have said you intend to be obedient to the Bishops response to your requests.
These are the important things. These are what would determine the validity or otherwise of your marriage.
The Doctrine and Beliefs are what is important. The disciplines of Cannon Law can be flexible when they need to be - that is up to your Bishop (and not we lay people on here). He better understands the needs and also has the authority to apply cannon law how he sees fit in his own Diosese.

2 people have posted what looks like conflicting rules about the Homily / Sermon. Both are quoting authoritative sources. They may look like they conflict, but actually they don’t.

The way I would read this is that the priest is obliged to preach a Homily, or have another validly ordained member of the Catholic Clergy preach a Homily (Deacon, Presbyter or Bishop).
(Unfortunately many priests are deliquint in this responsibility - especially at daily Masses but also on other occasions like Sundays permitting other lay visitors to preach or make appeals or announcements after the Gospel without themselves giving the required Homily. I have witnessed this throughout my Life.)
Another person can still preach or teach at the same celebration. But the Priest or his deacon must still give a Homily (however brief).
If the Priest permitted your Dad to give the Homily and did not give one himself this would constitute a “Liturgical Abuse” - but not one which would invalidate either the Sacrament of the Eucharist, nor the Sacrament of Matrimony

As Catholics you marry eachother. the priest does not do this. The Priest must witness it, and receive it on behalf of the church and of God. There should also be a specified number of other witnesses.

It very well may be possible for the Bishop to allow your Dad to lead you through the vows while the Priest is also present. That would be *His *decision. That falls under *His * authority.

There may be other significant ways he can get involved. (as suggested)

Have you seen this website:

gettingmarried.ie

it’s a Catholic website set up by the dioceses of Dublin in Ireland that provides a great tool for planning your Catholic wedding ceremony. - Right down to designing and printing up Missalettes or Orders-Of Service.

It is good that you are putting a lot of thought and planning into the Wedding Ceremony itself. I have heard many people complain that many people put way more effort into planning the party than the wedding itself or the marriage. Don’t fall into these traps. (Though It sounds like you are planning carefully)

Thank you so much for your helpful information, good sir, especially for that website. I’m not Irish but it definitely has a lot of good resources, especially the wedding booklet tool; I’m having a lot of fun playing around with it. Also thanks for being so affirming. It’s nice to know we’re at least doing some things right!

 

[theyoungmonk]

If you had a wedding Mass it would be harder for youre father to have major involvement due to ll the rules and rubrics than if you had it outside of Mass.For example He could not perform a ministry as these are reserved to catholics, thisinclude Readings including the psalm, these are supposed to be perfomed by a “ordained” lector but a layman may act as a “reader” at Mass. The Gospel is reserved to one who has ordained as a Deacon, as is the Homily. He could for example “preach” after the dismissal maybe also having some prayers etc

 

[Phemie]

If you had a wedding Mass it would be harder for youre father to have major involvement due to ll the rules and rubrics than if you had it outside of Mass.For example He could not perform a ministry as these are reserved to catholics, thisinclude Readings including the psalm, these are supposed to be perfomed by a “ordained” lector but a layman may act as a “reader” at Mass. The Gospel is reserved to one who has ordained as a Deacon, as is the Homily. He could for example “preach” after the dismissal maybe also having some prayers etc

He could as long as the Bishop permits it.
From the 1993 document "Principals and Norms on Ecumenism"

1. The reading of Scripture during a Eucharistic celebration in the Catholic Church is to be done by members of that Church. On exceptional occasions and for a just cause, the Bishop of the diocese may permit a member of another Church or ecclesial Community to take on the task of reader.

I think the father of the bride being a minister in another ecclesial Community is such an exceptional occasion & just cause.

 

[theyoungmonk]

He could as long as the Bishop permits it.
From the 1993 document "Principals and Norms on Ecumenism"
I think the father of the bride being a minister in another ecclesial Community is such an exceptional occasion & just cause.

That generally refers only to an ecumenical event if the couple are both members of the Church then it cant be reasonably termed as an ecumenical celebration. I doubt the Bishop would grant such permission (though it does depend on the diocese of course) as it dosent have all the clear marks of an ecumenical service, so the best option I feel would just to do a piece of para-liturgy before the start or after the Dismissal. or just dont have it as Mass.

 

[Phemie]

That generally refers only to an ecumenical event if the couple are both members of the Church then it cant be reasonably termed as an ecumenical celebration. I doubt the Bishop would grant such permission (though it does depend on the diocese of course) as it dosent have all the clear marks of an ecumenical service, so the best option I feel would just to do a piece of para-liturgy before the start or after the Dismissal. or just dont have it as Mass.

No, that article was specific to what can happen during a “Eucharistic” liturgy, IOW, during Mass. I don’t think you could ever refer to Mass as an ‘ecumenical’ liturgy.

Wedding and funeral Masses are the places where we often see non-Catholics do the first and/or second readings because the Norms on Ecumenism leave it up to the Bishop to decide.

 

[superamazingman]

This is definitely my main concern. Despite my attachment to my father and wanting to have our wedding “the way we imagined it”, I do not want our marriage to be invalid. I’ll defer to what the Bishop decides on this matter. Worst case scenario, my father could give a special speech and prayer at the reception, and I think that would be enough to make everyone happy.

People need to stop imagining weddings and just do them right, or start imagining better weddings. How about imagining this:

A Sung Mass in the OF with sacred polyphony and gregorian chant celebrated in complete obedience the current liturgical books, including GIRM no. 42 which asks us to celebrate the Mass in a spirit of continuity with the traditions of the Roman Rite (in this case, what is codified in the EF). Is this really that hard?

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

People need to stop imagining weddings and just do them right, or start imagining better weddings. How about imagining this:

A Sung Mass in the OF with sacred polyphony and gregorian chant celebrated in complete obedience the current liturgical books, including GIRM no. 42 which asks us to celebrate the Mass in a spirit of continuity with the traditions of the Roman Rite (in this case, what is codified in the EF). Is this really that hard?

Is it really that hard to have a little charity? The OP is trying to do what is right and include her father. My advice is follow what your priest says. As much as some people on CAF like to imagine themselves as complete experts, you are better of following the advice of your priest.

 

[Irishgal49]

Is it really that hard to have a little charity? The OP is trying to do what is right and include her father. My advice is follow what your priest says. As much as some people on CAF like to imagine themselves as complete experts, you are better of following the advice of your priest.

Charity on this forum? Surely you jest. Compassion? That doesn’t exist around here. There have been a few very caring people but they are not the norm.

And since someone was listing their “dream” for a wedding. If I could have my “dream” I’d get married by the volcano in Las Vegas. Nature and representations of nature always make me feel closer to God than Churches that don’t even look like churches anymore. Most are like empty boxes with a few statues thrown around. I LOVE the old fashioned ornate wood and “chapel” looking buildings but I have yet to see one in my Diocese. Churches look boring and like a gymnasium that was converted into a sanctuary. Very sad.
I’m the the OP’s priest will handle the situation. Her father can participate in some ways.

Congrats to her on her wedding.

 

[Therana]

If I could have my “dream” I’d get married by the volcano in Las Vegas. Nature and representations of nature always make me feel closer to God than Churches that don’t even look like churches anymore. Most are like empty boxes with a few statues thrown around. I LOVE the old fashioned ornate wood and “chapel” looking buildings but I have yet to see one in my Diocese. Churches look boring and like a gymnasium that was converted into a sanctuary. Very sad.

I feel you. Our parish church is pretty, and certainly better decorated than the church I grew up in, but being pretty new and more “modern”, it’s nothing compared to some of the beautiful older churches I’ve seen. We were thinking of requesting a wedding in our dicoese’s cathedral (which is beautiful and not far away at all), but cathedral weddings tend to be ludicrously expensive. That and we like the idea of getting married in the church we will be confirmed in.

P.S. Thanks for sticking up for me, Annabelle and Irishgal. I’ve been on internet communities with considerably less charity than this one, though, so I’ve developed a rather thick skin for the internet.

 

[superamazingman]

Is it really that hard to have a little charity? The OP is trying to do what is right and include her father. My advice is follow what your priest says. As much as some people on CAF like to imagine themselves as complete experts, you are better of following the advice of your priest.

Charity on this forum? Surely you jest. Compassion? That doesn’t exist around here. There have been a few very caring people but they are not the norm.

And since someone was listing their “dream” for a wedding. If I could have my “dream” I’d get married by the volcano in Las Vegas. Nature and representations of nature always make me feel closer to God than Churches that don’t even look like churches anymore. Most are like empty boxes with a few statues thrown around. I LOVE the old fashioned ornate wood and “chapel” looking buildings but I have yet to see one in my Diocese. Churches look boring and like a gymnasium that was converted into a sanctuary. Very sad.
I’m the the OP’s priest will handle the situation. Her father can participate in some ways.

Congrats to her on her wedding.

I feel you. Our parish church is pretty, and certainly better decorated than the church I grew up in, but being pretty new and more “modern”, it’s nothing compared to some of the beautiful older churches I’ve seen. We were thinking of requesting a wedding in our dicoese’s cathedral (which is beautiful and not far away at all), but cathedral weddings tend to be ludicrously expensive. That and we like the idea of getting married in the church we will be confirmed in.

P.S. Thanks for sticking up for me, Annabelle and Irishgal. I’ve been on internet communities with considerably less charity than this one, though, so I’ve developed a rather thick skin for the internet.

forum.catholic.com/showthread.php?p=9605411

 

[thistle]

People need to stop imagining weddings and just do them right, or start imagining better weddings. How about imagining this:

A Sung Mass in the OF with sacred polyphony and gregorian chant celebrated in complete obedience the current liturgical books, including GIRM no. 42 which asks us to celebrate the Mass in a spirit of continuity with the traditions of the Roman Rite (in this case, what is codified in the EF). Is this really that hard?

You should heed the words of St John of the Cross:

“Some souls suffer from another kind of spiritual anger. They watch over others with a kind of restless fervor, perpetually annoyed by the transgressions they perceive. The impulse arises to reprove the other souls in an angry way. Sometimes they even indulge this nasty urge, elevating themselves as masters of virtue. This is all quite contrary to spiritual meekness.”

 

[superamazingman]

You should heed the words of St John of the Cross:

“Some souls suffer from another kind of spiritual anger. They watch over others with a kind of restless fervor, perpetually annoyed by the transgressions they perceive. The impulse arises to reprove the other souls in an angry way. Sometimes they even indulge this nasty urge, elevating themselves as masters of virtue. This is all quite contrary to spiritual meekness.”

forum.catholic.com/showthread.php?p=9605411

 

[thistle]

forum.catholic.com/showthread.php?p=9605411