Can a Religious offer the Extraordinary Form?

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Nothing I said was offensive. Uninformed by your standards, maybe.

My point is:
There is a great decline of Orders actually USING their specific Rites.
 
The EF was NEVER officially suppressed.
Not officially. But it was phased out and gradually replaced for the most part, and Priests got a lot of heat for celebrating it for a while.
 
The EF was NEVER officially suppressed.
But they sure caused a lot of damage trying to suppress it. Not to mention all the excommunications and put-downs and ridicule that resulted because of ordaining priests to say it.
 
In response to the original question, priests who are religious (regular clerics) must follow the constitutions of their respective religious institutes. If the constitutions allow for the celebration of the EF, then it can be done without the permission of the superior.

I can speak best about the Franciscan tradition. In our family, the rule is very clear that priests do not enjoy special privileges, because they are priests. This includes the assumed right to celebrate mass. St. Francis, who was not a priest, was very specific that in a house where there is more than one priest, only one priest may be allowed to celebrate mass. There is no private mass in a side altar or side chapel as is the custom in clerical communities (orders of priests). Franciscans were not founded as an order of priests, as are the Carmelites and Dominicans. They are orders of priests or clerical institutes.

It is up to the successor of St. Francis to grant permission for the celebration of mass. In most houses, the superiors allow the ordained to concelebrate. The celebration of mass alone is discouraged, not because the mass is bad, but because our priests are to be brothers first. Therefore, they should always pray with their brothers. That being said, there are times when an ordained friar cannot be present for the conventual mass and superiors do not prohibit the celebration of mass alone. We (Franciscans) do not use the term “private mass.” That’s why I say, mass alone. It is the teaching of St. Francis that mass is never private, even when it’s only the priest. The mass and the Divine Office are the prayer of the Church. It is always public. The Holy Father used the term “private” in SP to mean alone, not PRIVATE.

Back to the rest of the question. There is one Franciscan congregation that has permission to celebrate the EF as its conventual mass, the Franciscans of the Immaculate. This was allowed, because it served the spiritual needs of the brethren. In the other congregations of the Order, the EF can be celebrated, but it is reserved for special occasions, to meet the needs of the brethren, if necessary and always with the permission of the major superior. For example, at Franciscan University, some students and faculty asked for the EF. The Major Superior was consulted and he gave permission for it to be done. It is not the conventual mass. This does not mean that it cannot be celebrated for the friars as well. What it means is that it cannot become the usual and customary form. That would require all kinds of votes and permissions, because the form is extraordinary.

All this being said, Franciscans cannot limit themselves to celebrating the EF. Even the Franciscans of the Immaculate, who have permission to celebrate the conventual mass using the EF, may not limit themselves to the EF, unlike the SSPX or the FSSP. If a Franciscan celebrates for the community, he must comply with the superior. If he celebrates for a parish, he must comply with both: superior and local bishop. In addition, the brothers in the house may vote on the matter. Everyone is bound to the decision of the vote. It’s part of the vow of obedience, which does not bind diocesan priests. They have no local community or major superior to govern them or their liturgical life. The bishop only controls what they do in ministry, not in private. In the case of religious, the founder, the rule, the constitutions, the Major Superior and the chapter, harmoniously govern your entire life. Legally speaking, yes a Major Superior can prohibit the celebration of the EF, despite the permission granted by SP.

There is a technicality that most lay people don’t know about. The Holy Father was very astute. In SP he writes that regular and secular priests may celebrate the EF in private and that religious need permission to celebrate it as the conventual mass. What the Holy Father deliberately did not address, so as not to rock the boat, is the fact that in some communities, religious may not celebrate mass alone. Therefore, only those religious who are allowed to celebrate mass alone can celebrate the EF in private.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Speaking about the Dominicans - It seems that there are few opinions that get expressed.
  1. The Prior Provincial can grant the permission to say the Dominican Rite.
  2. The Master can grant permission.
  3. Friars can actually say the Dominican Rite without permission under SP.
  4. Number three is only a “canonical” opinion.
  5. Friars can say the EF as opposed to the Dominican Rite under SP when saying Mass alone.
There is a great deal of discussion about these things going on in the various orders.

These are all opinions that have been expressed by various Dominican authors and friars recently, and being honest there is still more that can be said.

Dominicans have a very flexible constitutions and once a friar is ordained then he gains a lot of freedom. Priors can be over ruled by house chapters and the same can happen to provincials. When the balance tips in any province such that most of the old men have died and the majority are young men under forty then you will have to expect a big resurgence in the Old Dominican Rite.

It may take two more masters but I think in the end we will be going back. Then it will probably get reformed according to SC properly.

God Bless
 
Thank you Br. Paul for contributing the Dominican perspective on this question. As you folks can see, you have heard Br. David explain the Carmelite perspective and I have explained the Franciscan perspective and now Br. Paul has explained the Dominican. You have heard about three of the five great orders. We have yet to hear someone from the Benedictine and Augustinian families.

The answer to the question is not as easy as the question. The Great Orders of Men, as they are called, have traditions, rights and obligations that transcend the SP and that are not addressed in Canon Law.

To answer this question, one would have to ask each order individually. As Brother Paul says, the orders are still discussing this. Those orders that have a rite of their own, such as the Dominicans will probably lean more in that direction than toward the EF. Orders like the Franciscans, who do not have a rite of our own, but have certain liturgical traditions that go back 800 years, will probably go back to them. Even if using the Extraordinary Form, there may be slight differences from the same form celebrated by the FSSP. If nothing else, we would not follow the same liturgical calendar as the FSSP. We would continue to follow our liturgical calendar.

I attended an EF mass today, celebrated by an Observant Franciscan (OFM). He included the Franciscan saints in the canon, which is in the Franciscan Missal of 1962. One lady was upset, because she thought that the priest had changed the canon. In many places you cannot hear the canon, but in this church the brother was wearing a clip-on microphone. It is part of the Franciscan custom to say the prayer aloud so that the brothers can hear you. In our tradition, the celebrant is a brother who is ministering to his brothers and sisters as a priest. He is one with all of his Franciscan brothers, not distinct from them (ordained or not). Had that not been the case, she would not have heard: “Our Holy Fathers Francis and Dominic, Our Holy Mother Clare, Bonaventure, Fidelis, Lawrence, Agnes of Assisi”, along with some of the other saints found in the Roman Canon.

At this time, there really is no single answer to the question in the OP. It’s going to depend on the community. Don’t be surprised to see more diversity as you move from parish to parish, restrictions in one place that do not exist in another and so forth. We’ll just have to wait for the discussion between the superiors and their subjects to come to an end. Whatever they decide will then have to go to the Roman Curia for approval. This can take several years.

There is another tiny detail, but very important. As Brother Paul and Brother David will concur with me, religious orders cannot hold a chapter to change their constitutions on a whim. We just cannot add a paragraph to the constitutions that makes the EF the usual. To hold a special chapter, you must get permission from the Apostolic See. Changes made to your constitutions must be approved by the Holy See. The vote of the friars is only consultative in the sense that the Holy See can overrule whatever they decide and send them back to the drawing board.

It’s all very fascinating and can give anyone a headache, if you spend too much time thinking about it.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
This is wonderful! To think there’s a thread with explanations of the three great (in my opinion) orders’ uses is very consoling. I’ll just have to bookmark this thread, or at least copy and paste the information from these posts.

Unending thanks go to Br. J.R., Br. Paul, and Br. David. What excellent sources of charitable information you are. 👍
 
Br J.R., I wonder if there are special rules for Franciscans that are in unusual circumstances, away from a larger community. Our Cathedral parish is shepherded by Conventual Franciscans (we have three friars). Our new rector has begun celebrating the TLM (the Missa Cantata) every first Friday. I wonder if he had to ask his Provincial for permission.

I’ll have to ask him about the Franciscan Missal of 1962–I don’t think he’s using that for the EF but I’m not sure. The paperback missal we bought for the congregation is the standard 1962 missal.

I’m a reader at daily and Sunday Mass, and when we have a day that is significant to Franciscans, we use the Franciscan lectionary and sacramentary (for our OF Mass). We do use a Franciscan index book to determine the Mass readings and sacramentary setup; it is only different for days celebrating Franciscan saints, I think. It does kind of throw off the Magnificat-toting daily Mass crowd, but I’ve never seen hostility, only curiosity (e.g. why did you read from something different than my Magnificat?)
 
Br J.R., I wonder if there are special rules for Franciscans that are in unusual circumstances, away from a larger community. Our Cathedral parish is shepherded by Conventual Franciscans (we have three friars). Our new rector has begun celebrating the TLM (the Missa Cantata) every first Friday. I wonder if he had to ask his Provincial for permission.

I’ll have to ask him about the Franciscan Missal of 1962–I don’t think he’s using that for the EF but I’m not sure. The paperback missal we bought for the congregation is the standard 1962 missal.

I’m a reader at daily and Sunday Mass, and when we have a day that is significant to Franciscans, we use the Franciscan lectionary and sacramentary (for our OF Mass). We do use a Franciscan index book to determine the Mass readings and sacramentary setup; it is only different for days celebrating Franciscan saints, I think. It does kind of throw off the Magnificat-toting daily Mass crowd, but I’ve never seen hostility, only curiosity (e.g. why did you read from something different than my Magnificat?)
In response to your first question, if the friars celebrate the EF, it means that they have permission to do so. Since this is the Cathedral parish, all they need is the permission of the bishop. The Provincial Minister already knows what is involved in serving at the Cathedral parish. If he disagreed, he would pull his men out.

As to the missal, maybe I did not say it clearly. I was saying that when all of this is said and done, each religious community will mostly likely go back to what they had. We (Franciscans) never had our own rite. We had our own missal.

Currently, there is no law that says that we have to use the old Seraphic Missal. Therefore, the friars can use the Roman Missal of 1962. To the best of my knowledge, the only rule that is in place for us is that we must use the Franciscan Liturgical Calendar. That’s the little index to which you refer in your post. It’s called an Ordo, short for Ordinary of the Liturgy of the Mass and Hours. It’s a little book that gives you the feasts of the day. There is one just for Franciscans.

Yes, it will not always agree with the Magnificat. The Magnificat follows the Roman Missal. We use our own missal (Sacramentary) and Lectionary. There are days when we are in white and everyone is in green, when we use the gloria and no one else does, when we are in purple and everyone is in white and so forth.

To repeat and conclude. Right now, there is no regulation that says that Franciscans have to use the 1962 Seraphic Missal. A friar who has permission to celebrate the EF can make use of the Roman Missal. Don’t be surprised if in a few years, the Seraphic Missal and Seraphic Breviary make a reappearance. I have not seen one in years.

That being said, if I’m not mistaken, even when you use the EF, if you’re a Franciscan, you must celebrate the mass of the day. In other words, let’s say that it’s Oct 4. In the Franciscan Ordo, October 4 is a solemnity, because it’s the feast of St. Francis. If the mass is the OF, there are three readings and the gloria, plus the proper readings, collects, etc. I would imagine that if the friar were to celebrate the EF on October 4th, he would have to celebrate a high mass. I don’t know enough about the rubrics for the EF to say how this could be accomplished. Maybe it’s not possible. Maybe there is not high mass for the Solemnity of St. Francis. If that’s the case, then the friar would have to celebrate the OF. I just don’t know enough about EF rubrics to say how that would be handled.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
I can’t comment about religious orders, but regarding the rubrics of the traditional Roman Rite or EF on a Solemnity or First Class Feast the Gloria and Credo are said, and only one collect,
but it can still be a low mass if a more solemn form is not feasible.
 
I can’t comment about religious orders, but regarding the rubrics of the traditional Roman Rite or EF on a Solemnity or First Class Feast the Gloria and Credo are said, and only one collect,
but it can still be a low mass if a more solemn form is not feasible.
Here is my question, because I really don’t know this.

For Franciscans, the Solemnity of St. Francis is right up there with Easter and Christmas. In fact, we begin the Solemnity on October 3 with the celebration of the Transitus, the passing of St. Francis from life into glory, just as we do on Good Friday. Then we conclude with a major solemn mass with gloria, three readings, all the prayers of proper from the Franciscan missal and the readings are proper from the Franciscan lectionary, the Divine Office is proper from the Franciscan Breviary. In other words, it’s a BIG BIG DEAL. That’s just to paint the picture.

I really don’t know the current EF rubrics well enough. In the past, before the Pauline missal, we had the Seraphic Missal. There was a solemn high mass for St. Francis day itself, and the Transitus on the eve before. The Seraphic Missal has not been used in years. As I said before, I have not seen one in years. We have a Franciscan Missal, Lectionary and Breviary for the OF, in Latin and in the modern languages.

In that case, what happens? A low mass seems inappropriate. That would be like celebrating a low mass for Christmas or Easter.

I’m wondering if that’s why the Franciscan solemnities are always celebrated in the OF. 🤷 Since we don’t have the right books.

Thanks for your answers.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
I really don’t know the current EF rubrics well enough.
The 1962 Missal has several ribbons, the purpose of which is (inter alia) to mark where the multiple collects, secrets, and post communions are to be read when it is required. Yes, a lot of flipping back and forth, although there generally is one Epistle and one Gospel. Can be confusing to the most seasoned EF attendee.

True for both High Mass and Low Mass in a non-religious order setting.
 
The 1962 Missal has several ribbons, the purpose of which is (inter alia) to mark where the multiple collects, secrets, and post communions are to be read when it is required. Yes, a lot of flipping back and forth, although there generally is one Epistle and one Gospel. Can be confusing to the most seasoned EF attendee.

True for both High Mass and Low Mass in a non-religious order setting.
Do you know what one would do in such a case as I posted above using the new EF missal?

We had the Roman-Seraphic Missal which was published about 1968, I believe. But it’s no longer published. It was a hybrid between the Roman and Franciscan calendar, with all of the proper Franciscan prayers and masses for our feasts.

We don’t use the EF on a regular basis; therefore, I’m not very familiar with the rubrics, especially for such conflicts in the liturgical calendar. The Latin is not a problem for most of us. We still study Latin.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Do you know what one would do in such a case as I posted above using the new EF missal?

We had the Roman-Seraphic Missal which was published about 1968, I believe. But it’s no longer published. It was a hybrid between the Roman and Franciscan calendar, with all of the proper Franciscan prayers and masses for our feasts.

We don’t use the EF on a regular basis; therefore, I’m not very familiar with the rubrics, especially for such conflicts in the liturgical calendar. The Latin is not a problem for most of us. We still study Latin.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
Here were the propers for 2010:

Oct 3

Oct 4

A possibility for the Sunday Mass (presuming that’s the only weekly EF he says) would using the Sunday Mass or St. Francis and adding the Collect, Secret, and Postcommunion prayers of the other.

Over the holidays (Christmas through Epiphany) there was such a heavier mixing of Collects, Secrets, and Postcommunions at the EF Masses. Understand that the pastor who says both the OF and EF wants to try to maintain some uniformity between the calendars. As well as his sermons.

By the way, here are all the EF propers for 2011.

virgomaterdie.com/1962_propers_2011.htm
 
Do you know what one would do in such a case as I posted above using the new EF missal?

We had the Roman-Seraphic Missal which was published about 1968, I believe. But it’s no longer published. It was a hybrid between the Roman and Franciscan calendar, with all of the proper Franciscan prayers and masses for our feasts.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
Br. JR,
In my limited understand of the EF, I think that what makes a Mass a major feast is primarily adding the Gloria and Creed. It would certainly be appropriate to have a Solemn High Mass or a Sung Mass instead of a Low Mass on a major feast, but I don’t think that’s required; the requirement is the Gloria and Creed.

So I imagine if you celebrated the Solemnity of St. Francis using the standard Extraordinary Form Missal (without any Franciscan propers available), what you would do is the use the Propers for St. Francis as printed in the Roman Missal of 1962, and then add in the Gloria and Creed. Whether it was a Solemn High Mass, Sung Mass, or Low Mass would depend on the community.

Edit: I’m not terribly familiar with the EF rubrics - it looks like the Gloria would be said anyway since St. Francis is a 3rd class Feast in the Missal of 1962. So you’d probably just need to add the Creed.
 
Here were the propers for 2010:

Oct 3

Oct 4

A possibility for the Sunday Mass (presuming that’s the only weekly EF he says) would using the Sunday Mass or St. Francis and adding the Collect, Secret, and Postcommunion prayers of the other.

Over the holidays (Christmas through Epiphany) there was such a heavier mixing of Collects, Secrets, and Postcommunions at the EF Masses. Understand that the pastor who says both the OF and EF wants to try to maintain some uniformity between the calendars. As well as his sermons.

By the way, here are all the EF propers for 2011.

virgomaterdie.com/1962_propers_2011.htm
Thanks for the information. I did find it interesting that it says: Francis of Assisi: Confessor. Francis was a layman and died as a religious, not a priest. He was called Father, because he is the superior and founder.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Thanks for the information. I did find it interesting that it says: Francis of Assisi: Confessor. Francis was a layman and died as a religious, not a priest. He was called Father, because he is the superior and founder.
FYI, for the purpose of the calendar, the term “confessor” doesn’t really have anything to do with Holy Orders. It simply means that the saint “confessed the True Faith” and so is often applied to any saint who is not otherwise categorized (martyr, doctor, virgin, etc).
 
Thanks for the information. I did find it interesting that it says: Francis of Assisi: Confessor. Francis was a layman and died as a religious, not a priest. He was called Father, because he is the superior and founder.
BrJR, good catch.

I also notice the rest of the Oct 4th Mass (aside from the Collect, Secret, and Postcommunion) is also the Mass of The Imprinting of the Holy Stigmata on the Body of St. Francis, celebrated on Sep 17th.

virgomaterdie.com/1962_propers/2010/sept/sep17.html
 
FYI, for the purpose of the calendar, the term “confessor” doesn’t really have anything to do with Holy Orders. It simply means that the saint “confessed the True Faith” and so is often applied to any saint who is not otherwise categorized (martyr, doctor, virgin, etc).
Maybe that was the case before the liturgical reform. I don’t know. I was very young at the time. Today, if you look at the Ordo, the missal and breviary, it says “religious”. Some say “deacon”.

Many Franciscan historians question the title deacon. We don’t seem to have any documentation to support that Francis was ever ordained a deacon. There is documentation that he was tonsured in the 14th year of his religious life. That would make him a cleric at the time of his death, three-years later.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
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