Can a religious superior forbid one of his Priests from celebrating the Extraordinary Form?

[IPSB]

As the title says, can a religious superior forbid one of his Priests from celebrating the Extraordinary Form of the Mass (and other Sacraments). I know a Bishop can’t forbid his secular priests, but considering the vow of obedience…

Thank you!

/ IPSB

 

[TimothyH]

Yes, religious under vow of obedience must obey the superior in all things except a command to sin.

The superior is to be obeyed as if he/she is Christ and the members obey the superior in imitation of Christ who submitted His will to the Father.

And going a little farther he fell on his face and prayed, “My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt.” (Matthew 26:39)

The superior is not a dictator however. The superior is responsible for the salvation of the souls of those in his/her community and is supposed to choose the liturgy based on the needs of the community and in consult with the members. Practical issues are important too - for example, you can’t do the EF if no one in the community knows Latin.

-Tim-

 

[IPSB]

Okay, as a follow up, if one of his subjects is to be ordained to the Priesthood, can he force the person to accept ordination even if he does not know Latin well enough? (can. 249)

 

[pnewton]

Okay, as a follow up, if one of his subjects is to be ordained to the Priesthood, can he force the person to accept ordination even if he does not know Latin well enough? (can. 249)

That is a strange question. Can a person under a vow be forced to take another vow as a result of the first? I would say this is akin to asking if a superior can force a person under a vow to quite being Catholic. It simply makes no sense except as a hypothetical idea.

I have no idea what one’s understanding of Latin has to do with any of this. I would say if a person feels his skill set is lacking for any task, he is still obligated to obey his superior, if after discussion the superior thought it best the religious brother or sister would still benefit from performing the task.

 

[IPSB]

That is a strange question. Can a person under a vow be forced to take another vow as a result of the first? I would say this is akin to asking if a superior can force a person under a vow to quite being Catholic. It simply makes no sense except as a hypothetical idea.

I have no idea what one’s understanding of Latin has to do with any of this. I would say if a person feels his skill set is lacking for any task, he is still obligated to obey his superior, if after discussion the superior thought it best the religious brother or sister would still benefit from performing the task.

I rather think it is not strange, Canon 249 of the 1983 Code of Canon Law which is currently in force requires that Priests know Latin, however, this is not Divine Law but merely Ecclesiastical Law (and I know it isn’t always followed). So the real question would probably be: Can a religious superior force his subject (for lack of a better word) to disobey Ecclesiastical Law?

 

[Digitonomy]

I rather think it is not strange, Canon 249 of the 1983 Code of Canon Law which is currently in force requires that Priests know Latin, however, this is not Divine Law but merely Ecclesiastical Law (and I know it isn’t always followed). So the real question would probably be: Can a religious superior force his subject (for lack of a better word) to disobey Ecclesiastical Law?

Let’s not jump to conclusions; canon law doesn’t actually say that. If you read carefully, you’ll see that Canon 249 describes a requirement that applies to the Charter of Priestly Formation, not a requirement that applies to seminarians, much less priests in general.

Can. 249 The Charter of Priestly Formation is to provide that the students are not only taught their native language accurately, but are also well versed in latin, and have a suitable knowledge of other languages which would appear to be necessary or useful for their formation or for the exercise of their pastoral ministry.

If you look up the United States version, the Program of Priestly Formation, Fifth Edition, you’ll find that Latin is mainly prescribed as a recommended prerequisite to be completed in pre-theology. In other words, there is no canonical requirement that priests know Latin. Rather, the Church has tried to create a system wherein priests DO know Latin.

That said, it looks like the Charter of Priestly Formation is mainly for diocesan priests. I didn’t have time to read through the section of canon law on religious institutes, so even the Charter provisions above may not apply to religious priests.

 

[ProVobis]

you’ll find that Latin is mainly prescribed as a recommended prerequisite to be completed in pre-theology.

See, I don’t understand this. As different languages can express different theologies even in a perfect translation (which never exists), it would seem theology expressed in Latin would be authoritative and necessary for all priests. Probably true for a whole lot of others as well.

To say someone doesn’t have to study the prerequisites would be like saying one need not take a certain amount of math and other physics courses to study nuclear physics, for example. It can’t be done, although I’m sure a lot have tried to fake it.

 

[Digitonomy]

See, I don’t understand this.

I think it makes sense for it to be part of pre-theology. Notice that the same canon requires the Charter provide that students be taught their own languages correctly. This is not the role of the average seminary, it is something that is expected as a prerequisite.

 

[pnewton]

Can a religious superior force his subject (for lack of a better word) to disobey Ecclesiastical Law?

Let’s not jump to conclusions; canon law doesn’t actually say that. If you read carefully, you’ll see that Canon 249 describes a requirement that applies to the Charter of Priestly Formation, not a requirement that applies to seminarians, much less priests in general.

I think this issue shows the wisdom of a vow to obedience. What is being asked of this alleged brother is that they accept their superior’s understanding of canon law rather than their own.

 

[TimothyH]

Most members of Societies of Consecrated Life are exempt from canon law. Most vowed religious fall under this category.

They obey the statues of the order (Dominican, Jesuit, Benedictine, etc.) and follow the constitution of the community but are “Exempt religious” in terms of canon law.

The only understanding of canon law they or their superior needs is that it simply doesn’t apply to them.

-Tim-

 

[kozlosap]

Most members of Societies of Consecrated Life are exempt from canon law. Most vowed religious fall under this category.

They obey the statues of the order (Dominican, Jesuit, Benedictine, etc.) and follow the constitution of the community but are “Exempt religious” in terms of canon law.

The only understanding of canon law they or their superior needs is that it simply doesn’t apply to them.

-Tim-

Thanks for the very precise answer! I attend a huge Jesuit parish and had wondered about this.

 

[dans0622]

Most members of Societies of Consecrated Life are exempt from canon law. Most vowed religious fall under this category.

They obey the statues of the order (Dominican, Jesuit, Benedictine, etc.) and follow the constitution of the community but are “Exempt religious” in terms of canon law.

The only understanding of canon law they or their superior needs is that it simply doesn’t apply to them. …

Hello,

I have never heard of this idea of “exemption” before. It certainly wasn’t the way I, in my former life in a religious order, and my brethren understood canon law.

After the 1983 Code was promulgated, Constitutions of religious orders (and other particular laws) had to be revised to make sure they were in accordance with the Code. There are many matters not covered by particular law and the religious would have to refer to, and abide by, what is stated in the universal canon law.

Dan

 

[Thomas_White]

Okay, as a follow up, if one of his subjects is to be ordained to the Priesthood, can he force the person to accept ordination even if he does not know Latin well enough? (can. 249)

I think the larger question here is whether a superior can force one of his subjects to be ordained to the Priesthood under any circumstances. I’m no canon lawyer, but I would doubt it.

Anyone care to comment?

 

[OraLabora]

I think the larger question here is whether a superior can force one of his subjects to be ordained to the Priesthood under any circumstances. I’m no canon lawyer, but I would doubt it.

Anyone care to comment?

I don’t think he can. He can choose people for the priesthood. There’s one young monk at our abbey that undertook theological studies but realized that he didn’t have the call to be a priest and he chose to remain a simple monk.

The priesthood, inside or outside an abbey, is a calling. The abbot can identify those with aptitude, but it remains in the heart of the monk to determine if that’s his calling or not.

 

[JerryZ]

I think it makes sense for it to be part of pre-theology. Notice that the same canon requires the Charter provide that students be taught their own languages correctly. This is not the role of the average seminary, it is something that is expected as a prerequisite.

So what you are saying is that if I want to attend University to study Engineering, which precludes a good grasp of math. I could still attend and graduate?

Because that is what your assertion amount to.

If it is a PRE-REQUISITE and the fellow does NOT HAVE it, How can he enter seminary?
Worse yet how can he graduate from seminary without the PRE-REQUISITE?

Wow!!
If this is true it would explain a lot!