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Nom_the_Wise
Guest
And sadly, Marvin *doesn’t *get into Heaven. But Adams was an atheist and therefore no one got into Heaven on his watch. I wonder if *he *did.
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Mount_Carmel
Guest
Nom the Wise - I rather think when God speaks via ‘fiction’, His actual message is TRUTH, and firmly based upon real precepts. 
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Nom_the_Wise
Guest
Absolutely. I was attempting a joke earlier. Misfire. My bad.Nom the Wise - I rather think when God speaks via ‘fiction’, His actual message is TRUTH, and firmly based upon real precepts.
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Tyrion
Guest
Of course I do. I even recall a poster whose screen name was R Daneel… too bad he disappeared.
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Linux
Guest
What rational basis do you have for that claim?
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inocente
Guest
There’s the Robotology religion in the Futurama series. Bender visits Robot Heaven. Robot Hell is in New Jersey, and if the condemned are able to best the devil in a fiddle contest, they can go free under the Fairness in Hell Act of 2275.
I don’t think it’s ever explained why robots have their own heaven. Maybe they don’t want to let humans in there, or maybe humans didn’t want them in their heaven. Or maybe silicon-based souls are incompatible with carbon-based souls and have to be kept separate. Or maybe… OK, I admit it, I’m out of my depth on this one.
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JamesATyler
Guest
My guess is that the robot only has a chance to enter heaven if it can exist without a body. It has to be a spiritual being. In my view, everything that the robot is and what it is capable of is completely dependent on its flesh. Its flesh being, perhaps, metal, silicon, etc. Its habit and routine would be solely dependent on its flesh. It capability for complex emotions such as love, hate, etc and feelings of pleasure and pain would also have limitations based on its flesh. The robot would have the same task ahead of it that human beings do. To be able to transcend the limitations of its flesh and to become something more than a slave to its flesh. Without help from God I do not see how an inorganic robot could become more than a product of its flesh. I do not think intelligence alone is sufficient. A robot with organic properties might have more hope to transcend the flesh because at this point in time we believe that living material already has some property that is supplied by God, the author of life. To say it another way, living material might already have some gift of God present in it already. But that is just a theory. Even if a robot were constructed completely from biological material and its body was a living thing, its chance to enter heaven would probably be no greater than an animal’s. If it were also rational and capable of real empathy it’s chances would at best be no greater than a human’s. I believe that neither human nor any constructed being whether organic or inorganic has any chance of entering into heaven without God’s help. Ultimately, I think it would be God’s choice and totally dependent on how he viewed such a creature. It would be God who is capable of laying down a plan of salvation for the creature if it were possible.
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Beryllos
Guest
Good point. When I wrote “worthy” I did not mean by merit, as if the robot could earn a soul (as in the story of Pinocchio?). What I had in mind was closer to “competent.” In other words, if a machine had free will, and could understand love and forgiveness, blah blah blah, it would be more worthy than a toaster.
No, but perhaps this is our way of trying to understand the connection between our biological “machinery” (that is, brain function) and our soul. Here on Catholic Answers, people ask all the time questions like whether someone can receive sacraments or be absolved if they have degenerative conditions like Alzheimer’s Disease, or other physical conditions which lead to severe memory or cognitive deficits. If someone cannot think, do they still have a soul? I suppose they do. Anyway, the robot question is another way to consider these issues.Life is complicated enough without making it even more complicated! Is there any valid reason to believe machines **need **a soul?
However, one may wonder whether this discussion will lead to any great new insights. At this point, I doubt it.
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Beryllos
Guest
I guess we’ll find out when we get there. Perhaps he had a deathbed conversion. All things are possible with God.
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Linux
Guest
I don’t think it makes sense to speak of a sentient being without presupposing that it has a spiritual nature, regardless of its physical condition. I don’t see there being one without the other.
For me, It is obvious that a sentient machine can enter into union with God. What a thing is made of is irrelevant.
The idea that a thing does not have a personal soul unless its constituents is homosapien/biological in nature is unfounded and really has nothing to do with whether or not any being can enter heaven.
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JamesATyler
Guest
Whether a machine can or does become a spiritual being is the main question. At what point does a machine become more than a machine? Is there a glimmer of a spirit in my desktop computer? It’s doubtful. What if I load a program that allows it to simulate thinking and have knowledge of itself and other beings? Is that knowledge more than data? We know that no matter how complicated a computer or machine is so far, if I build another machine to the exact same specifications, I can transfer programming and data from one machine to another. Therefore I can create an exact duplicate of the first machine quite easily. If the computer has a soul then, we know that it has nothing to do with its body. Also, if it has a soul, then the soul can be replicated by making a copy of it and putting the programming into another machine of the correct specifications. Or do you suggest that if we make a copy of the machine, that the second machine will have no soul?
An interesting experiment would be to make a duplicate of the machine. Place each machine into separate but identical rooms with a TV monitor. Turn them on remotely. Stream in video and see if the machines react identically.
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Credo_in_Deum
Guest
Why would a robot need to be saved?
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polytropos
Guest
I think Linux’s point is that the question asked is “Can a self-aware robot enter heaven?” So the debate is not really “Can a robot be self-aware?” but “If a robot were self-aware, would it be able to enter heaven?” I think that the answer to that question is yes. The Catholic position would be that humans could not create a robot self-aware. God’s hand would have to be in it somewhere, in which case it is feasible that it would be ensouled and would be capable of entering heaven. I guess the question is not really different from, “If intelligent life were found on another planet, could it enter heaven?”
We have no idea why God would create a robot self-aware, but if He did… it could enter heaven, I think.
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JamesATyler
Guest
Sorry. I was getting side tracked on whether a machine could be truly alive. I don’t think that a machine can be more than a simulator. No matter how alive it appears to be, I don’t think there would actually be anything there with out God’s hand in it. But if there were real life there, then I think God would have something in mind for its soul.
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fisherman_carl
Guest
What would be heaven for a robot? An endless supply of wd40 and spare parts?
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Mount_Carmel
Guest
And someone to re-boot it when its system/programme crashes and to up-grade the mother board(s) to Heaven grade?
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Semangelof
Guest
Microsoft Windows
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empther
Guest
Aquinas "Summa Contra Gentiles:
Chapter 49
THAT THE INTELLECTUAL SUBSTANCE IS NOT A BODY
dhspriory.org/thomas/ContraGentiles2.htm#49
Men may create the body of a robot, but they can’t make the soul with it’s intellect which can understand anything including infinities.
When a couple fertilizes an egg to make an embryo God gives it a soul. But God created man and woman to do this.
God did not create robots. To expect God to give immortal souls to robots is to ask him to help us create a new race of immortal beings. Not only is this ridiculous, it’s not right that man be given this power. To create immortal beings is the right of God alone.
Furthermore,
robots can’t reproduce themselves, so there goes the Bible’s commandments. Indeed, there would be no Bible for robots. So upon what is their morality based?
Furthermore,
if robots sinned, who would redeem them? Will the Son of God incarnate himself as a robot? This is ridiculous.
You either see it or you don’t.
It’s like the question of could Jesus have married Mary Magdelene? No, because marriage is between two human beings, male and female, but Jesus is a divine being. God could not marry a human being. It’s wrong.
You either see it or you don’t.
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SciFiWriter
Guest
There is a man in Japan that is planning on transferring the consciousness of Human Beings into an Android by 2040. Born a man, transferred into a robot.
What are your thoughts on that as far as as a soul goes?
What are your thoughts on that as far as as a soul goes?
L
Linux
Guest
May I have his number please? I would like to be a test subject.
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