Can Acolyte vest as Subdeacon?

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OrbisNonSufficit

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I’ll try to split this question into three;
  1. Can Acolyte vest as Subdeacon during OF ever? (probably clear answer but just in case gonna ask this)
  2. Can Acolyte vest as Subdeacon during EF without limitations or are there some occasions where he can’t?
  3. Can Acolyte vest as Subdeacon outside Liturgies, hence when carrying Eucharist to the sick etc? How would even Subdeacon vest when doing this though?
EDIT: uh, also, if anyone knows, do subdeacons observe all liturgical colors in EF? I’ve googled and I haven’t seen tunicles of some colors on sale, which means basically nothing, but made me wonder about this
 
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Why wouldn’t you just ask a priest at your church these questions?
 
There are couple of reasons for that- first and primary one is that I am studying and hence I am not in my city that often. Our Priest was also not as knowledgeable when I asked about Subdeacons last time, because he simply isn’t interested in EF. I guess I could theoretically ask Priest at EF Mass (he might not be sure about OF though) or local Priest (he might not know because he is not involved in EF), but I realized that if someone knew on the forum it would save time. Also, I am not able to approach local Priest until end of the week. If no one appears to know on the forums I will ask Priest and post answer here, but from my experience people on those forums are very knowledgeable about those things too. God Bless you.
 
Except that last time you asked similar questions, the basic answer was it depends on your location and diocese. If you are able to ask a priest at weeks end, it would seem that is not an unreasonable wait.
 
I’m not saying it’s unreasonable, but I have not asked those questions- I did ask about Subdeacon but mostly about how does that work with acolytes. Now I’m asking directly about vestments of each… and also, answers about location were mostly to questions focused on formation of acolytes. I do not think vestments of acolytes or subdeacons are a local thing, or at least in this very case. Do you have any information about them being local? God bless you.
 
I do not know the answers to questions 2 and 3 but will make a reasonable attempt at number 1. When everything was being changed after Vatican II, as I’m sure you know, the order of sub-deacon was abolished. The OF doesn’t require a sub-deacon.

When Paul VI abolished the minor orders he established two ordinary ministries for laymen. I don’t know his intention but the two ministries he established seem to be used only in most places for seminarians as they progress towards ordination. One of those ministries was acolyte. I suspect the role of this minister would be similar to what a sub-deacon did.

Along with the abolition of the order of sub-deacon and with there being no role for sub-deacon in the OF Mass, there seems to me no need to retain the sub-deacon’s vestments in the OF Mass. I believe it would be proper for an acolyte to vest in [cassock], amice, alb and cincture.

Some times people use the term ‘acolyte’ when to what they are referring are altar servers. I believe it is not possible for them to perform all duties of an acolyte. It would obviously be wrong for them to dress in the vestments of a sub-deacon.

As to all your questions as acolytes are laymen I think it would possibly be inappropriate for them to vest in the vestments of those who were in minor orders and therefore in the clerical state.
 
Yes, an Installed Acolyte may serve & vest as a sub-deacon.

I’ve been to a number of Solemn High Masses where the subdeacon is an Installed Acolyte who was installed in the Anglican Use of the Roman Rite.

When Paul VI suppressed the sub-deacon he stated that the role of the sub-deacon would be transferred to the Installed Acolyte and that Installed Acolytes may be called “subdeacons” when needed.

As long as the Acolyte is Installed, they can serve as sub-deacon. But no uninstalled acolytes may serve.

As far as number 3 is concerned, I don’t think think so. The sub-deacon really doesn’t really have a vestment outside of mass. They don’t have a stole. I know they can be vested during an Eucharistic procession, but I don’t think they would be allowed to vest while bringing the Eucharist to the sick because they don’t have to be a subdeacon to do that.

NOTE 1: There are not many Installed Acolytes walking around. Most dioceses only install men as an Acolyte one year (or less) before they become ordained as a Deacon. Only a handful of dioceses (plus the Anglican Ordinariate) will install non-seminarians as an Installed Acolyte

NOTE 2: Vatican II wasn’t when Lay people were first granted the right to bring the Eucharist to the sick. In the 3rd century there was a young boy who was martyred as a Saint because he protected the Eucharist from pagans. He was bringing the Eucharist to the sick when he was approached by bullies who wanted him to turn over the Eucharist he carried. He refused and was killed. His name: St. Tarcisius.

NOTE 3: St Tarcisius may have been an Acolyte or Deacon, but most do not believe he was a Deacon because he is widely believed to have been a young boy. So it’s quite possible that he was an Acolyte or just a lay student.

 
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Because the subdiaconate (which had been a major order) was suppressed in 1972, church suppliers stopped selling tunicles, as there was little need for them. It’s only in the last 15 years or so that one has seen them widely available again, and even that is typically only as part of a fiddleback Solemn Mass set. Tunicles are quite similar to dalmatics, with typically one less orphrey on them, to distinguish. Sometimes they are even identical, possibly being two dalmatics.

When an instituted acolyte acts as a subdeacon, he cannot wear the maniple. He does not pour water into the chalice at the offertory, instead leaving this to the deacon.
 
OldCAFMember said:
Because the subdiaconate (which had been a major order)
Click to expand...
Actually, subdeacon is the highest minor order, not a major order. The higher orders are deacon, priest, and bishop.

In most of the Eastern churches, there is a vow of celibacy for subdiaconate ordination (I would suppose there was in the west before suppression, but I have no information on that)…
 
dochawk said:
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OldCAFMember:
Because the subdiaconate (which had been a major order)
Click to expand...
Actually, subdeacon is the highest minor order, not a major order. The higher orders are deacon, priest, and bishop.

In most of the Eastern churches, there is a vow of celibacy for subdiaconate ordination (I would suppose there was in the west before suppression, but I have no information on that)…
Click to expand...
No, this depends on what you call a “major order”

In the latin church, “major orders” did not equal “Sacred Orders”

The Sacred Orders are the ones that receive the Sacrament of Holy Orders: Deacon, Priest & Bishop.

But in the Latin Church the “major orders” referred to the orders that had major roles in the mass.
Sub-Deacon, Deacon and Priest. The Bishop, in regards to the Mass, fulfills the role of priest when he celebrates the old Latin Mass (yes, he does have different vestments and rites, but there is no priest when a Bishop celebrates the Latin mass because the Bishop is fulfilling that role)

Therefore, in the Latin Church, the “minor orders” were:
  • Porter
  • Lector
  • Exorcist
  • Acolyte
The “major orders” were:
  • Subdeacon
  • Deacon
  • Priest
The un-ordained orders were:
  • Porter
  • Lector
  • Exorcist
  • Acolyte
  • Subdeacon
The Sacred Orders were:
  • Deacon
  • Priest
  • Bishop
Yes, I know it’s a little confusing. I didn’t understand how the subdeacon could be considered a “major order” until I read St. Thomas Aquinas. Point is, in the Latin Church, “major orders” were based on the liturgy only, and wasn’t the same as the Sacrament of Holy Orders.

I pray this helps.

 
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dochawk said:
Actually, subdeacon is the highest minor order, not a major order. The higher orders are deacon, priest, and bishop
Click to expand...
That is the case in Eastern Church- in Latin Church it was considered major order during Trent. Because of Latin Church considering it major order there was vow of celibacy for subdeacons.

It is noteworthy that during Trent, Bishop was not considered major order, it was not even named.
 
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