R
ralphinal
Guest
Thanks for the clarification on that.
Back to the topic. FoA, you are not a typical Muslim in your faith. That said, why would the description of GOd as Father be so offensive to “mainstream” Muslims?
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
Back to the topic. FoA, you are not a typical Muslim in your faith. That said, why would the description of GOd as Father be so offensive to “mainstream” Muslims?
F
FaithofAbraham
Guest
They think it perpetuates that pagan idea of a demigod, so it’s like taboo even in the “child of God” sense.Thanks for the clarification on that.
Back to the topic. FoA, you are not a typical Muslim in your faith. That said, why would the description of GOd as Father be so offensive to “mainstream” Muslims?
Much as Jews regard Jesus as idolatry even if they were to accept him as a human-only Messiah as I do, simply because they believe Jesus has been used for idol worship, so it’s a tainted concept and they throw that baby out with the bathwater too.
R
ralphinal
Guest
In other words, from a Muslim perspective, even though the Prophet Jesus taught them to call God Father, they refuse to obey? Further, why would God allow Jesus to teach this concept and not continue it with Mohammid? Why revert to an idea of Master/slave?They think it perpetuates that pagan idea of a demigod, so it’s like taboo even in the “child of God” sense.
Much as Jews regard Jesus as idolatry even if they were to accept him as a human-only Messiah as I do, simply because they believe Jesus has been used for idol worship, so it’s a tainted concept and they throw that baby out with the bathwater too.
F
FaithofAbraham
Guest
Muslims are also confused about verses in the Quran and think the real Bible has been replaced with a counterfeit. Even though the Quran is only referring to outside traditions that corrupt the true meaning of the words in the Bible.In other words, from a Muslim perspective, even though the Prophet Jesus taught them to call God Father, they refuse to obey? Further, why would God allow Jesus to teach this concept and not continue it with Mohammid? Why revert to an idea of Master/slave?
So they reject whatever Jesus said in the Bible because they think it is a false Bible, that is their own error.
R
ralphinal
Guest
Alright, but let’s stay with the idea that Jesus did teach it, even if the rest is corrupt. If possible, try to answer why God would revert to a Master/Slave relationship?Muslims are also confused about verses in the Quran and think the real Bible has been replaced with a counterfeit. Even though the Quran is only referring to outside traditions that corrupt the true meaning of the words in the Bible.
So they reject whatever Jesus said in the Bible because they think it is a false Bible, that is their own error.
F
FaithofAbraham
Guest
God didn’t, we have many relationships with God. The purpose of the Quran is to dispel the pagan idea, so taken with the Bible, a Muslim should see that we can be as a son to father; wife to husband; slave to master; subject to king. Etc.Alright, but let’s stay with the idea that Jesus did teach it, even if the rest is corrupt. If possible, try to answer why God would revert to a Master/Slave relationship?
But like I said Muslims wrongly refuse the Bible so they are stuck as the bondwoman’s son being only a slave to God, due to their error.
I
inJESUS
Guest
So is Mary a flesh mother to Jesus, or just a surrogate?
she is His mother. She takes the place of no one. When He decided to come, He chose her as the means.
Was any bit of Mary’s flesh used to **create **
I
inJESUS
Guest
so Allah decided that muslims should not call him father because of a wrong argument He create in the first place?Because all such discussion refers to Jesus being a demigod sired from God’s sperm. It’s not about being a child of God.
F
FaithofAbraham
Guest
How did Jesus share her flesh.she is His mother. She takes the place of no one. When He decided to come, He chose her as the means.
Jesus is not created. He shared her flesh yes, created by her flesh no. He incarnated in her flesh yes, created by her flesh no.
F
FaithofAbraham
Guest
Muslims decided that they shouldn’t because Christians associated the child of God idea with paganism and idolatry, with a Father God over here and a demigod over there making two gods.so Allah decided that muslims should not call him father because of a wrong argument He create in the first place?
I
inJESUS
Guest
It means they alter the interpretation with their traditions.
correct…no mention of scripture corruption.
Jews say Isaiah 53 Suffering Servant is not about Messiah, it is.
F
FaithofAbraham
Guest
The only difference really is that the Quran implies God “took on” a human nature and spirit by creating a man then dwelling in the man.correct…no mention of scripture corruption.
correct because the passage is not corrupt, the intepretation is.
here its wrong because it is no longer interpretation but scripture itself. When John says Jesus is the eternal Creator of the universe without whom we can do nothing, and without whom nothing exists, and since John was a Jew, not a polytheist, it means Jesus is God. Since the Quran does not believe Jesus is the creator but a creature “because He used to eat food”, then the Quran is wrong, not John or Jesus the Alpha and Omega.
While you say God just took on a human flesh and spirit from some unknown place.
So for me, Jesus is the name of the 100% man whose flesh and spirit God “took on” in order to be God’s Word on earth.
To you Jesus is the name of the God who created everything. God just somehow had a spare human spirit and body to use for the incarnation, and neither of those alone really formed a separate human being.
So mine is in keeping with all precedents set by Jewish prophets before Jesus, your tradition is just one in a long line about Gentile demigod characters. That’s where the Quran says Christian interpretation of scripture is corrupt.
I
inJESUS
Guest
you do not expect my answer to represent the exact details, do you? because i don’t know. He existed in her womb without her intervention, He shared her womb (flesh and blood), He is not created by her.How did Jesus share her flesh.
F
FaithofAbraham
Guest
Was any of the flesh of Jesus taken from Mary to create the body of Jesus?you do not expect my answer to represent the exact details, do you? because i don’t know. He existed in her womb without her intervention, He shared her womb (flesh and blood), He is not created by her.
Or did God just ZAP the flesh of Jesus into existence, not taken from anyone?
That’s the answer I’m trying to get.
I
inJESUS
Guest
Muslims decided that they shouldn’t because
why **Allah **did not once refer to Himself as father?
Christians associated the child of God idea with paganism and idolatry, with a Father God over here and a demigod over there making two gods.
I
inJESUS
Guest
The only difference really is that the Quran implies God “took on” a human nature and spirit by creating a man then dwelling in the man.
any Quranic support?
While you say God just took on a human flesh and spirit from some unknown place.
I
inJESUS
Guest
i do not have all the answers as to how God does things because am not God.Was any of the flesh of Jesus taken from Mary to create the body of Jesus?
Or did God just ZAP the flesh of Jesus into existence, not taken from anyone?
That’s the answer I’m trying to get.
the body of Jesus created Mary, and came through her, He is not created by Mary. Jesus created His own body. Any other details must fit this teaching…
F
FaithofAbraham
Guest
That’s what a prophet is, a human creation of God that God dwells in to make that man a prophet.any Quranic support?
God could do that, but the one Jesus has needs to be made from the seed of David according to the flesh.He can’t create His own human body?
Jesus was glorified into position of God over us, speaking what God says. But now we are talking about his human nature before he was glorified.what about the Bible which says Jesus is the Creator of the universe, the Alpha and Omega?
F
FaithofAbraham
Guest
Muslims are supposed to know the difference between child of God, and a demigod son of a Zeus, by reading the Bible too as Quran 3:3 implies. Not every detail of everything is covered in the Quran.why **Allah **did not once refer to Himself as father?
Like, why does the NT not specifically say how Jesus came to be flesh or descend from David to qualify as Messiah? Those are more important issues, yet the NT neglects to say.
So maybe we need a third book explaining what the two previous books mean.
F
FaithofAbraham
Guest
So you are saying that God’s Word is God, and God had the flesh body of a man when He created Mary? That sounds LDS.i do not have all the answers as to how God does things because am not God.
the body of Jesus created Mary, and came through her, He is not created by Mary. Jesus created His own body. Any other details must fit this teaching…
- Status
- Not open for further replies.