Can Allah be called Father?

[inJESUS]

That’s what a prophet is, a human creation of God that God dwells in to make that man a prophet.

ok.

God could do that,

 

[inJESUS]

Muslims are supposed to… .

this does not answer why Allah does not adress HIMSELF as father. You are talking about what muslims should do, am asking why Allah did NOT.

 

[inJESUS]

So you are saying that God’s Word is God,

yes

and God had the flesh body of a man when He created Mary?

 

[FaithofAbraham]

i already gave many interpretations of how this could be achieved, and you answered none. Instead of you repeating the same arguments and me re-writing the same answers, you could adress my replies:

None of them is valid because you entirely dismiss prophecy that DNA must have come from David’s body. That’s what I keep repeating but it’s not taking hold for some reason.

2 Samuel 7:12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee,** which shall proceed out of thy bowels**, and I will establish his kingdom.

2Samuel 7:13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.

Now if Jesus was David’s child and then a man, and then made God over all the people like Moses was, he would be a God to David too, even though he is David’s son. Mystery solved.

This was the promise for the son God killed for David’s sin. Solomon received a similar promise but God already knew Solomon would mess that one up by following other gods.

So this promise for the firstborn of David and Bathsheba was still in effect, and then fulfilled by Jesus.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

this does not answer why Allah does not adress HIMSELF as father. You are talking about what muslims should do, am asking why Allah did NOT.

Why doesn’t Jesus – who you also say is God – ever explain exactly how he was created, or who Mary’s parents were? Why didn’t he tell us exactly when he would return so we could watch out for him? Why is everything a riddle?

Matthew 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

Matthew 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

So we have to do some digging ourselves. For Muslims, they have to go to the Bible to see that they are children of God, not slaves of the bondwoman. They really are children of Ishmael, because they are too blind to see otherwise.

 

[inJESUS]

None of them is valid because you entirely dismiss prophecy that DNA must have come from David’s body. That’s what I keep repeating but it’s not taking hold for some reason.

i dismiss nothing. I gave many interpretations that fit biologically even.

the idea is simple. Jesus is the creator, not a creature. He decides to come to earth as a man, He incarnates into Mary’s womb without man’s seeds, nor a fertile egg…no human seeds create Him…He creats His own body just as He creates a burning bush .

And if you insist on blood relationship, it’s through Mary.

And if you insist on David’s seeds, not only lineage, check this…it’s not stranger than your unscriptural explanations and am willing to talk to you in the same level of thought:

David;s seeds means David’s own seed, his DNA, not his son. Jesus, as He created David and his DNA, He could create the same DNA of David in His body, the body HE created, and be called the seed of David and His creator. In this way, He has the seed of David, but is not created by David, is not created by human intervention, is not created by seeds and eggs of humans.

this interpretation at least does not oppose scriptures since Jesus remains David’s Lord, not his son, as He explicitely says.

Now if Jesus was David’s child and then a man, and then made God

 

[inJESUS]

Why doesn’t Jesus

Jesus did use the title Father. Why doesn’t Allah? its his title, not a historical clarification.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

i dismiss nothing. I gave many interpretations that fit biologically even.

No you are ignoring the flesh of Jesus has to have been derived from David’s bowels which means from David’s body. Not copied out of thin air to make it look like that.

Now if Jesus was David’s child and then a man, and then made God over all the people like Moses was, he would be a God to David too, even though he is David’s son. Mystery solved.scriptures twisted. Jesus IS the creator, Moses isn’t.

Then you are saying that the human spirit and flesh of Jesus is not a real man, but part of God that created everything, which is what the Mormons say.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

Jesus did use the title Father. Why doesn’t Allah? its his title, not a historical clarification.

It’s one of many titles, depending on context. The context of the Quran is for correction to the Gentile notions of a demigod.

 

[inJESUS]

No you are ignoring the flesh of Jesus has to have been derived from David’s bowels which means from David’s body. Not copied out of thin air to make it look like that.

1-Jesus is likened to David in the NT, not to any of his sons.The life of David is paralleled with Jesus’ life, not his sons… Jesus is the New David, the new seed of King David, not his son unless David and his sons were the same person.

2- from the bowels DIRECTLY? says who? or is it an expression of lineage?

3- from the bowels directly means Jesus is his literal son, something JESUS denies. Do you know more than Jesus?

4-“Not copied out of thin air to make it look like that”…yet taken from a dead body and put into another womb making Him a creature is right? which ones fits the description of creator better if Jesus Himself denies being his son?

Then you are saying that the human spirit and flesh of Jesus is not a real man,

 

[inJESUS]

It’s one of many titles, depending on context.

yet never ever used by Allah, why? there was no correct context? the only contexts available to Allah happened to link the title to blaspemy and threats and never using it correctly?

The context of the Quran is for correction to the Gentile notions of a demigod.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

1-Jesus is likened to David in the NT, not to any of his sons.The life of David is paralleled with Jesus’ life, not his sons… Jesus is the New David, the new seed of King David, not his son unless David and his sons were the same person.

David’s innocent son gave his life to pay for David’s sin, Jesus was innocent and gave his life for Israel’s sins, and the whole world’s. What could be more parallel than that?

2- from the bowels DIRECTLY? says who? or is it an expression of lineage?

3- from the bowels directly means Jesus is his literal son, something JESUS denies. Do you know more than Jesus?

It means the DNA came through the body of David and into Messiah. Jesus never denied this. You want to be flexible about what seed means, yet not do the same with what being God over David means. All that means is that Jesus is like God over everyone, because God gives him that position.

4-“Not copied out of thin air to make it look like that”…yet taken from a dead body and put into another womb making Him a creature is right? which ones fits the description of creator better if Jesus Himself denies being his son?

Why should it matter, God can dwell anywhere He wants, right?

God created His own body, not humans.

How come? Is a human body created through sex too filthy for God to reside in? I don’t understand the reasoning.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

yet never ever used by Allah, why? there was no correct context? the only contexts available to Allah happened to link the title to blaspemy and threats and never using it correctly?

I already said you have to read the Bible and the Quran together, like a key fits to a lock, that’s God’s plan to keep it a mystery except from those who really want to know about God’s Kingdom. I don’t think you will find a much better answer than that.

 

[Claire_from_DE]

None of them is valid because you entirely dismiss prophecy that DNA must have come from David’s body. That’s what I keep repeating but it’s not taking hold for some reason.

2 Samuel 7:12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee,** which shall proceed out of thy bowels**, and I will establish his kingdom.

2Samuel 7:13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.

Now if Jesus was David’s child and then a man, and then made God over all the people like Moses was, he would be a God to David too, even though he is David’s son. Mystery solved.

This was the promise for the son God killed for David’s sin. Solomon received a similar promise but God already knew Solomon would mess that one up by following other gods.

So this promise for the firstborn of David and Bathsheba was still in effect, and then fulfilled by Jesus.

The Jews called themselves sons of Abraham even though they were many generations down from Abraham. In the same way, Jesus is a son of David. His mother, Mary, was from the house of David. So was his legal father, Joseph. When the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary, she became pregnant with Jesus. It has not been revealed to us how this happened. At the very instant that the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary, God the Son joined to his divine nature a human nature. We know that Jesus’ human nature came from his mother who was of the line of David, not from any human father. Today we would say he had her DNA, no one else’s. God the Father is spirit; there was no ‘sperm of God’.

God the Son is a divine person who took to himself a human nature. Jesus, the name given when he was born, was Mary’s son. Parents do not ‘create’ their children, they conceive them. Jesus had a human body and soul. Like all children, his body was conceived and his soul was created by God at the moment of his conception. His divine nature always existed. We do not call Jesus a human person; he is a divine person; he is God the Son who became man.

Jesus said, “Before Abraham was, I am.” Don’t try to figure all the details. You ask why doesn’t Jesus, who we say is also God, explain how he was created, when he will return, etc. We can humbly complain to God that we just don’t understand some things, but we should not tell Him what He should do!

 

[inJESUS]

David’s innocent son gave his life to pay for David’s sin, Jesus was innocent and gave his life for Israel’s sins, and the whole world’s. What could be more parallel than that?

david’s son gave nothing. He was unaware of what was happening or why he died. All the ministry of Jesus is paralleled to David.

It means the DNA came through the body of David and into Messiah. Jesus never denied this.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

Don’t try to figure all the details. You ask why doesn’t Jesus, who we say is also God, explain how he was created, when he will return, etc. We can humbly complain to God that we just don’t understand some things, but we should not tell Him what He should do!

I don’t believe in mysteries, I figure them out or I throw them away as nonsense.

 

[inJESUS]

I already said you have to read the Bible and the Quran together, like a key fits to a lock, that’s God’s plan to keep it a mystery except from those who really want to know about God’s Kingdom. I don’t think you will find a much better answer than that.

i respect your effort, but this is not an answer as to why Allah never ever adressed himself as father. the title father is no mystery, it was explicitely mentioned in Previous scriptures, another reason why He should use the title again, yet never did.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

david’s son gave nothing. He was unaware of what was happening or why he died. All the ministry of Jesus is paralleled to David.

So a little child who is very sick and suffers and dies sacrifices nothing, in your view? Seems that in your view, the all-mighty God gave up His life though He knew He would always have it no matter what. To me that’s sacrificing nothing.

my interpretation is not scriptural as well but does not oppose it. Jesus never denied it yet Jesus denied being his physical son. So Jesus creating David’s seed in His body and hence having the seed of David while He is His Creator is one thing, and being created by David seed and his womans egg out of sex is another.

Do you mean Jesus had a flesh body before he mimicked David’s DNA in it? Then if Jesus is God it means God had a man’s body which again sounds like LDS.

being God over David is not scripture. Being the Creator of David and all humans is. No room for flexibility.

This is only true in your mind because you say that the human spirit and flesh of Jesus was not just a man called Jesus who God went to dwell in.

dwelling as a human is one thing, being created by humans is another.

filth has nothing to do with the topic. Being created by humans has.

How come? If God would lower Himself to be in the womb of a woman why not a few phases back to be a fertilized egg?

 

[FaithofAbraham]

i respect your effort, but this is not an answer as to why Allah never ever adressed himself as father. the title father is no mystery, it was explicitely mentioned in Previous scriptures, another reason why He should use the title again, yet never did.

Sure it is. God purposely makes things hard to understand so we have to work for it. Those who seek find, those who don’t may lose even what they have.

 

[Claire_from_DE]

I don’t believe in mysteries, I figure them out or I throw them away as nonsense.

I thought Islam means submission. But you say to God, “If I can’t figure you out, you are nonsense.”??? I don’t think so!

I admire that you read the Jewish and Christian scriptures. I think that you want to figure out how to make them agree with the teachings of Islam. But they don’t agree. It isn’t possible to be a Muslim/Christian/Jew or a Christian/Jewish/Muslim.