Can an 8 year old commit a mortal sin?

[teachccd]

We often spend so much time and energy on whether or not this was a mortal sin or a venial sin. Regardless, we should get our butt to Confession and move on!

AMEN !!!

 

[fix]

In 3rd grade, I cheated on a Science test and ironically a Religion test. And remembering back (I’m in 8th now) I had a fairly well-formed conscience. Is it possible for an 8 year old to have filled all 3 conditions for a mortal sin and in this situation. I don’t think I knew was a mortal sin when I was 8 though I just knew it was REALLY REALLY BAD:banghead: .I’m asking this cause I read a dream of John Bosco describing innocence (from mortal sin) preserved by penance and I was wondering if this would rule me out of the innocent category. I pray not.
Any help is GREATLY APPRECIATED

P.S. Don’t worry I’m not scrupulous about this. I’m simply curious and I’ve already gone to confession long ago for it.

This is a link to a rather long piece from a holy priest that addresses some of your thoughts I think:
Undeveloped Conscience of Pre-Adolescents**.**

In part of it he refutes the idea that young people cannot commit mortal sin.

 

[BSHoop96]

My inclination is to say that an elementary school exam isn’t grave matter.

Grave matter aside, I think it would be rare for an eight year old to commit a mortal sin. I think most eight year olds don’t have a clear enough idea of what sin really is. Any child can tell you that a sin makes God unhappy, but to really understand those words is something else entirely. Not understanding the nature of a sin would, I think, reduce culpability to venial at most.

I absolutely agree!

 

[peary]

In 3rd grade, I cheated on a Science test and ironically a Religion test. And remembering back (I’m in 8th now) I had a fairly well-formed conscience. Is it possible for an 8 year old to have filled all 3 conditions for a mortal sin and in this situation. I don’t think I knew was a mortal sin when I was 8 though I just knew it was REALLY REALLY BAD:banghead: .I’m asking this cause I read a dream of John Bosco describing innocence (from mortal sin) preserved by penance and I was wondering if this would rule me out of the innocent category. I pray not.
Any help is GREATLY APPRECIATED

P.S. Don’t worry I’m not scrupulous about this. I’m simply curious and I’ve already gone to confession long ago for it.

I don’t even know if it could qualify as a sin, let alone a mortal sin. Kids at 8 years of age are still in the process of creating a moral conscious, and most of the time this doesn’t kick in until a person is closer to adulthood, although children do know right from wrong. Remember, sin is a moral judgment that a person makes with regard to behavior and carrying it through even though he or she knows that it is wrong and against Church teaching. Your moral decisions now are quite different than what they were in 3rd grade, believe me. If cheating hasn’t become a way of life for you now, I don’t think you have to worry about it.

 

[ComputerGeek25]

I think this paragraph should be cut and pasted in every thread that starts with “Is this a mortal sin?”

We often spend so much time and energy on whether or not this was a mortal sin or a venial sin. Regardless, we should get our butt to Confession and move on!

I have to agree with you. It seems that we obsess (myself included) over the finer details. If you feel it’s borderline, confess it and let God sort it all out.

I know after many years of not being to confession, there were things that probably weren’t mortal (due to lack of knowledge, not knowing you needed confession, etc.), but confessed them anyways. I left no stone unturned and it made be feel better in the long run. And there would be no question on judgement day!

 

[GemmaRose]

I don’t even know if it could qualify as a sin, let alone a mortal sin. Kids at 8 years of age are still in the process of creating a moral conscious, and most of the time this doesn’t kick in until a person is closer to adulthood, although children do know right from wrong. Remember, sin is a moral judgment that a person makes with regard to behavior and carrying it through even though he or she knows that it is wrong and against Church teaching. Your moral decisions now are quite different than what they were in 3rd grade, believe me. If cheating hasn’t become a way of life for you now, I don’t think you have to worry about it.

I agree.

I remember vividly the telephone conversation I had with my oldest niece the evening before her First Confession.

After speaking for a while with my sister-in-law, who told me how my niece had been fighting with, and pounding on, her little brother all day (a more or less daily occurrence when they were younger), she passed the phone along to D---- so I could speak with her.

After D---- had chattered on a while, I brought up the subject of her First Confession… was she excited, etc. She talked to me for a while, and then said, “But, Auntie, I don’t know what I’m gonna confess! I’m always so good!”

Clamping my hand over the phone and trying to stifle my laughter, I finally was able to get the words out: “But D----, Mommy was just telling me how you were hitting your brother today!”

In all innocence, she responded, "Yeah - but he started it!"

Ah, the conscience of an 8 year old…

P.S. My dear niece is now 30+ with three children of her own. She and her husband take their little tribe to Mass every Sunday, and she, her brother and her sister, are as close as any three siblings can be.

 

[Tracy10]

I don’t believe that age has any barrier on whether or not a person can sin. As far as I’m concerned, whether the person is 6, 8 or 10 years old, he is capable of sin the minute he “becomes aware” that the action is wrong and does it anyway.

However, keep in mind that God knows the minds of everyone he judges. He knows people’s situations; he knows of their insecurities and fears; and he knows what makes them behave that way.

So forget about what was done then. An apology to God should be enough. He can distinguish a true apology from a fake one because if you “MEAN” something, that means you feel really horrible for having done it and will “VERY STRONGLY” strive to never do it again for as long as you live. God knows your heart now just as he knew it then. He strives constantly to understand everything you do, say, and mean so as to judge you as fairly as possible. Keep in mind he isn’t a bully. Nor he he perfect. (He has often said he is a jealous God). That means he strives continually to improve himself just as you do.

---

In 3rd grade, I cheated on a Science test and ironically a Religion test. And remembering back (I’m in 8th now) I had a fairly well-formed conscience. Is it possible for an 8 year old to have filled all 3 conditions for a mortal sin and in this situation. I don’t think I knew was a mortal sin when I was 8 though I just knew it was REALLY REALLY BAD:banghead: .I’m asking this cause I read a dream of John Bosco describing innocence (from mortal sin) preserved by penance and I was wondering if this would rule me out of the innocent category. I pray not.
Any help is GREATLY APPRECIATED

P.S. Don’t worry I’m not scrupulous about this. I’m simply curious and I’ve already gone to confession long ago for it.

 

[AquinaSavio]

Traditionally, 7 years of age has been regarded as the age of reason. It may fluctuate in different cases, but this has been established as the usual age when children can make proper moral decisions. One has only to read the Baltimore Catechism to see the traditions behind this.

So, is it possible for 8-years-olds to commit mortal sin. Yes, it certainly is. The child Antonietta Meo, who died at six years of age, is on the path to canonization. If a child of six can be canonized (that is, infallibly recognized to have entered Heaven after death) because of her extraordinary virtue, surely a child of eight can commit a grievous sin. How likely is it? It certainly depends on the child. In the case of the original poster, this person claimed to have had a well-formed conscience, recognized the action as being very evil. The three conditions for mortal sin could certainly be present:

1. Grave matter (cheating on such a test might not constitute grave matter, but if the person was convinced that it was grave and committed it anyways, this fulfills the obligation).
2. Acknowledgment of serious matter (see previous answer).
3. Full consent of the will (if there is serious and reasonable doubt as to whether or not there was full consent of the will, it is likely that the person did not fully consent).

The point is that, in this case, it doesn’t matter that the act probably wasn’t grave, because it was regarded as grave in the mind of the person in question. Thus, the person would have shown willingness to commit a mortal sin.

8 year olds can’t commit mortal sins. Cheating in a exam when you are 8 doesn’t constitute towards a mortal sin. Sure it’s a sin, but children don’t necessarily have the firmness of morality impressed in them. Neither do they have as much self control an adult.

This is a blanket statement, which should always be avoided. If a child so young can achieve sainthood, surely they can also commit grievous sin. I believe that most apologists would disagree that it is impossible for 8-year-olds to sin mortally.

We’re members of a Church which will not say that even Hitler is in Hell, but some of us want to burn 8-year olds for all eternity. Sad.

My friend,

I hope that this was not meant in jest. The original poster is seeking an honest answer to a sincere question. Do not ridicule those who are trying to solve the problem. Though it may seem that we are splitting hairs, important aspects of our Holy Faith lie in minute details and things which are easily overlooked.

It is foolish to say that any of us want to burn 8-year-olds in Hell. The question is simply: is it possible? Pretend that I ask the question “Could a child die if left in a large garage with a car running for one minute?” Scientists would not be wishing death by carbon monoxide on children by simply considering the question. The judgment is left up to our merciful God, not us. We are simply considering the possibility.

We often spend so much time and energy on whether or not this was a mortal sin or a venial sin. Regardless, we should get our butt to Confession and move on!

Well, it is very necessary to know whether or not a sin is mortal or venial. The proper form of Confession calls for the penitent to tell the confessor which sins are mortal and which are not. The confessor must know this so that he can properly counsel the penitent.

 

[PeteZaHut]

Would cheating on a test be a grave matter? Maybe if it was very extensive cheating, but giving or receiving an answer or two, in my opinion, doesn’t cause serious harm.

 

[Holly3278]

Considering that 7 is the recognized age of accountability, I would say that it is definitely possible for an 8 year old to commit a mortal sin. However, it would be harder for an 8 year old to commit a mortal sin than say for a 25 year old. Why? Because the 25 year old is more experienced and learned in the Faith than the 8 year old is.

 

[cam100]

Once you know right from wrong (which is the very definition of what it means to have reached the age of reason), you have the capacity to sin. If you have the capacity to sin, you have the capacity to mortally sin.

No, I don’t think so. The criteria for sin in general and mortal sin in particular are not identical. The criteria for mortal sin are more stringent. Therefore, it **does not **logically follow that “If you have the capacity to sin, you have the capacity to mortally sin.”

 

[ComputerGeek25]

No, I don’t think so. The criteria for sin in general and mortal sin in particular are not identical. The criteria for mortal sin are more stringent. Therefore, it **does not **logically follow that “If you have the capacity to sin, you have the capacity to mortally sin.”

Yes, I agree a mortal sin is “harder” to commit, however, let us revisit what a mortal sin is:

1. grave matter
2. full knowledge of #1 (you know it’s a grave matter)
3. full consent of the will (you know it’s a grave matter, but comit it anyways).

Let us take the normal 8-year old, with at least some religious education. They most likely will know the 10-commandments. An 8 year old probably knows that stealing/shoplifting, lying, cheating and talking back to their parents are all grave matter (they directly come from the 10-commandments), probably were educated on some level about the 10-commandments and can fully consent to these.

However, I doubt an 8 year old could be held accountable for sexual sins, as they probably haven’t learned about the birds and the bees yet. Even their parents/priests may be poorly educated (and we on CAF sometimes can’t come to agreement sometimes).

 

[Joe_5859]

No, I don’t think so. The criteria for sin in general and mortal sin in particular are not identical. The criteria for mortal sin are more stringent. Therefore, it **does not **logically follow that “If you have the capacity to sin, you have the capacity to mortally sin.”

I realize that there are other factors necessary for a sin to be mortal. Let’s look at them (from CCC 1857):

• Grave matter
• Full knowledge
• Complete consent

Which one of these is an eight year old unable to do? And, if so, why make the Sacrament of Confession availabe to them? We are only obligated to confess mortal sins, so if an 8 year old is by nature incapable of committing a mortal sin, why would they need Confession?

That was my point.

 

[fix]

I realize that there are other factors necessary for a sin to be mortal. Let’s look at them (from CCC 1857):

• Grave matter
• Full knowledge
• Complete consent
  Which one of these is an eight year old unable to do? And, if so, why make the Sacrament of Confession availabe to them? We are only obligated to confess mortal sins, so if an 8 year old is by nature incapable of committing a mortal sin, why would they need Confession?

That was my point.

A good point, too.

One remarks, in passing, that a twist on the aforesaid error is not entirely absent from the current contention that “little tots” are so incapable of sin that they do not need sacraments to release them from faults…

Pius X, as we have recalled, saw the “age of discretion” as applying equally to both sacraments as it does to going to school. He saw this norm as suggested by the first indications a child gives that he is using reasoning powers and, therefore, making decisions and choosing sides not only within the family but on the battle field of life. He thought that a child by that age could know the difference between ordinary bread and bread somehow identified with the bread of angels, sacred bread containing a divine mystery. He also declared it his opinion that the same child knows what is right or wrong, whether it be a matter of torturing a cat (in due course a prisoner of war), being caught with one’s hand in the marmalade jar (in due course, the public treasury), or defying the authority of one’s parents (in due course, of God Himself)…

FIRST CONFESSION AND FIRST COMMUNION By John Cardinal Wright

 

[mercygate]

A good point, too.

Indeed, whether the “matter” of the marmalade jar rises to the level of “grave” required for a sin to be mortal, the idea of introducing children to the sacrament of reconciliation places them in the way of grace. And brings them into a habit that they will need as their lives and their choices become more complex and the consequences of their actions become more serious.

Still, I can’t help thinking that even a child who commits an “innocent” act of disobedience can start a chain of events that has devastating consequences. The most recent example that comes to mind is the 9-year-old in California who started the fatal wildfires last year. He was surely disobeying his parents by playing with matches.

That is why simple obedience to one’s parents is such a big deal in childhood.

 

[Ted_in_Charlott]

The Southern Baptists assign what they call the age of accountability as 6 or 7.

Maybe their kids sin more

 

[cam100]

No, I don’t think so. The criteria for sin in general and mortal sin in particular are not identical. The criteria for mortal sin are more stringent. Therefore, it **does not **logically follow that “If you have the capacity to sin, you have the capacity to mortally sin.”

I realize that there are other factors necessary for a sin to be mortal. Let’s look at them (from CCC 1857):

• Grave matter
• Full knowledge
• Complete consent

Which one of these is an eight year old unable to do? And, if so, why make the Sacrament of Confession availabe to them? We are only obligated to confess mortal sins, so if an 8 year old is by nature incapable of committing a mortal sin, why would they need Confession?

That was my point.

Full knowledge is the criterion that would likely be unfulfilled by someone who has barely reached the age of reason.

The fact that the Sacrament of Penance is made available to many 8-year olds doesn’t mean that the Church presumes them to be in mortal sin. While we are required to confess mortal sins, we are also greatly encouraged to confess venial sins as well. Thus, the average 8-year old may not need that sacrament, but it surely a spiritual aid for them, nonetheless.

My point is that although the Church has said that the age of reason is the age at which a child becomes capable of sin, it has not defined that age exactly for each person, nor has it defined exactly when* mortal* sin becomes possible, but logic would tell us that it is probably not at the same moment.

 

[Brendan]

8 year olds can’t commit mortal sins. Cheating in a exam when you are 8 doesn’t constitute towards a mortal sin. Sure it’s a sin, but children don’t necessarily have the firmness of morality impressed in them. Neither do they have as much self control an adult.

Yes they can. The Church recognizes the Age of Reason to be that of your average 7 year old. This is, by defintion, the level of reason necessary to have sufficent knowledge of right or wrong to freely choose to know the gravity of the act and still freely choose to do it.

I think you radically underestimate the level of understanding required to commit a mortal sin.

 

[Brendan]

7 is a pretty arbitrary number. Why 7 and not 8, or even 6? It all depends on the child. A 7 year old can rarely understand the consequences of sin, much less mortal sin. Besides, cheating on an exam would rarely, if ever, constitute a mortal sin.

No it is not simply arbitrary. The Church did not simply pick a number and call it the age of Reason.

Rather, it took a look at what the average level of reason was at various ages, and compared that to the minimum level required to commit a mortal sin. The two matched at 7.

Yes, individual children might vary. Some children might achive the necessary level of reason at 6, others 8 or even 9 ( later still if there are mental imparments)

But the level of reasoning ablily of your average 7 year old is sufficent to commit a mortal sin.

 

[fix]

Indeed, whether the “matter” of the marmalade jar rises to the level of “grave” required for a sin to be mortal, the idea of introducing children to the sacrament of reconciliation places them in the way of grace. And brings them into a habit that they will need as their lives and their choices become more complex and the consequences of their actions become more serious.

Still, I can’t help thinking that even a child who commits an “innocent” act of disobedience can start a chain of events that has devastating consequences. The most recent example that comes to mind is the 9-year-old in California who started the fatal wildfires last year. He was surely disobeying his parents by playing with matches.

That is why simple obedience to one’s parents is such a big deal in childhood.

Yes, another good point.