Can an atheist go to heaven?

[Trident_H]

No, I don’t believe that someone who exits this life as an atheist can go to Heaven/Paradise. Being a ‘good person’ [whatever that means] doesn’t excuse someone of responsibility to seek and submit to God. I don’t get any joy from saying that, though. I may wish that an atheist will be saved, but at some point, I have to put my emotions in the back seat and ask myself "What do the scriptures say?". That’s what it boils down to; God’s understanding of ethics is perfect, even if unpopular.

Surah 103 of the Qur’an says that one must possess faith [in Allah], otherwise such a person is lost by default.

You and Mike can go in a huddle over this in a corner together. Go ahead and paint God as some guy who’s got to check the cookbook to see if his soup needs water.

I’m not lining up with you on this. God wants us to come to him sure. He wants that to be a free will choice. But negative influence can cloud a guy’s judgement too. I can’t see the God of my understanding leaving a 15-year-old girl out on the curb just because she didn’t have enough time or life-experience to get her philosophy entirely straight.

 

[CatholicHero]

Please don’t put words in my mouth. An atheist cannot perform righteousness, because righteousness comes from surrendering oneself to the will of God. God must be the centre of a person’s life if they are to be saved.

Well you literally just said that its impossible for atheists to go to heaven because they do not believe in God? Answer my question then. Who has a better chance of making it to heaven religous terrorists who kill in the name of god or good atheists? I will not let you condem the op’s poor friend who died at no fault of her own and was a good person with a big heart to hell.

 

[lax16]

No, I don’t believe that someone who exits this life as an atheist can go to Heaven/Paradise. Being a ‘good person’ [whatever that means] doesn’t excuse someone of responsibility to seek and submit to God. I don’t get any joy from saying that, though. I may wish that an atheist will be saved, but at some point, I have to put my emotions in the back seat and ask myself "What do the scriptures say?". That’s what it boils down to; God’s understanding of ethics is perfect, even if unpopular.

Surah 103 of the Qur’an says that one must possess faith [in Allah], otherwise such a person is lost by default.

But we can’t know what is truly in one’s heart or what they said to God in the last second they had on earth.

 

[CatholicHero]

You and Mike can go in a huddle over this in a corner together. Go ahead and paint God as some guy who’s got to check the cookbook to see if his soup needs water.

I’m not lining up with you on this. God wants us to come to him sure. He wants that to be a free will choice. But negative influence can cloud a guy’s judgement too. I can’t see the God of my understanding leaving a 15-year-old girl out on the curb just because she didn’t have enough time or life-experience to get her philosophy entirely straight.

Yes!!! You are literally my hero right now.

 

[drac16]

Well you literally just said that its impossible for atheists to go to heaven because they do not believe in God? Answer my question then. Who has a better chance of making it to heaven religous terrorists who kill in the name of god or good atheists? I will not let you condem the op’s poor friend who died at no fault of her own and was a good person with a big heart to hell.

If you’re offended, feel free to ignore what I say. You have the right to.

Surah 103 doesn’t just say that faith alone is required-- righteous deeds must be present as well. I don’t know if a terrorist is more likely to be saved than an atheist. I suppose it depends on the terrorists heart and whether or not he/she has been transformed by God.

 

[Trident_H]

Yes!!! You are literally my hero right now.

Thanks buddy.

 

[CatholicHero]

If you’re offended, feel free to ignore what I say. You have the right to.

Surah 103 doesn’t just say that faith alone is required-- righteous deeds must be present as well. I don’t know if a terrorist is more likely to be saved than an atheist. I suppose it depends on the terrorists heart and whether or not he/she has been transformed by God.

Trident H, help me out here. I cannot believe what I am reading.

 

[drac16]

You and Mike can go in a huddle over this in a corner together. Go ahead and paint God as some guy who’s got to check the cookbook to see if his soup needs water.

I’m not lining up with you on this. God wants us to come to him sure. He wants that to be a free will choice. But negative influence can cloud a guy’s judgement too. I can’t see the God of my understanding leaving a 15-year-old girl out on the curb just because she didn’t have enough time or life-experience to get her philosophy entirely straight.

We clearly have two different understandings of God then. A person doesn’t have to be a philosopher to be saved-- he/she must live on God’s terms, which is to live a life of worship (the Qur’an says that we were created for that purpose).

 

[Trident_H]

If you’re offended, feel free to ignore what I say. You have the right to.

Surah 103 doesn’t just say that faith alone is required-- righteous deeds must be present as well. I don’t know if a terrorist is more likely to be saved than an atheist. I suppose it depends on the terrorists heart and whether or not he/she has been transformed by God.

We clearly have two different understandings of God then. A person doesn’t have to be a philosopher to be saved-- he/she must live on God’s terms, which is to live a life of worship (the Qur’an says that we were created for that purpose).

Here’s a quiz. If a newborn kid dies after being baptized what does God do? The kid has no idea God even exists. So defacto atheist? Or what?

Is God really sorting people based on what makes it into their heads in the last seconds of life? I mean is a guy who’s all alone in a hospital dying from an awful disease after a life of good deeds allowed to have just a second of doubt before he dies? Or does he get time out of eternity for that?

God’s not supposed to be a computer. A bean counter. Or a monster. If you’re going to spend an eternity with a thing like that then the whole ride’s going to be meaningless.

This falls into the slot of salvation by last thoughts. So bugger up your life fine. Because it’s only the last 3 seconds that count.

 

[drac16]

Here’s a quiz. If a newborn kid dies after being baptized what does God do? The kid has no idea God even exists. So defacto atheist? Or what?

Is God really sorting people based on what makes it into their heads in the last seconds of life? I mean is a guy who’s all alone in a hospital dying from an awful disease after a life of good deeds allowed to have just a second of doubt before he dies? Or does he get time out of eternity for that?

God’s not supposed to be a computer. A bean counter. Or a monster. If you’re going to spend an eternity with a thing like that then the whole ride’s not going to be much fun.

Keep in mind that this is a 15 year old we were talking about-- not a baby. Anyways:

Prophet Muhammad [peace be upon him] said that every child is born in a state known as ‘fitra’, which means that he/she would necessarily grow into a muslim if he/she is not converted to another religion by its parents. Moreover, a baby is born pure and sinless. Only by conscious acts does one become an atheist. Therefore, I don’t believe that a baby’s thoughts is a parallel to what a 15 year thinks, does or believes.

Everyone has doubts; both the sick and the healthy. It’s inevitable because we don’t possess a perfect faith.

 

[Trident_H]

Keep in mind that this is a 15 year old we were talking about-- not a baby. Anyways:

Prophet Muhammad [peace be upon him] said that every child is born in a state known as ‘fitra’, which means that he/she would necessarily grow into a muslim if he/she is not converted to another religion by its parents. A baby is born pure and sinless. Only by conscious acts does one become an atheist. Therefore, I don’t believe that a baby’s thoughts is a parallel to what a 15 year thinks, does or believes.

Everyone has doubts; both the sick and the healthy. It’s inevitable because we don’t possess a perfect faith.

How could everyone be born a Muslim when that religion didn’t even exist until 1600 years ago?

Doesn’t this sort of paint God as at least a bit forgetful? Or did the fitra thing not work properly because of some sort of software glitch?

 

[CatholicHero]

Keep in mind that this is a 15 year old we were talking about-- not a baby. Anyways:

Prophet Muhammad [peace be upon him] said that every child is born in a state known as ‘fitra’, which means that he/she would necessarily grow into a muslim if he/she is not converted to another religion by its parents. Moreover, a baby is born pure and sinless. Only by conscious acts does one become an atheist. Therefore, I don’t believe that a baby’s thoughts is a parallel to what a 15 year thinks, does or believes.

Everyone has doubts; both the sick and the healthy. It’s inevitable because we don’t possess a perfect faith.

drac16, Your beliefs are extreme and flat our wrong but there is a time and place for saying them. The OP has just lost a friend to a tragic accident and is seeking some for of emotional closure and healing. The last thing he needs to here or anyone reading this is your disgusting opinion that an innocent girl who died in a tragic accident is automatically in hell for being an atheist.

Peace.

 

[drac16]

How could everyone be born a Muslim when that religion didn’t even exist until 1600 years ago?

Doesn’t this sort of paint God as at least a bit forgetful? Or did the fitra thing not work properly because of some sort of software glitch?

Excellent questions!

Ah, but you see, we [muslims] contend that Islam dates back all the way to our parents, Adam and Eve [peace be upon them]. We contend that is the same religion taught by all the prophets-- not just by Muhammad [peace be upon him]. Fitra is a non-discriminatory; it has applied to all babies that ever were born and it applies to all babies that will be born.

 

[drac16]

drac16, Your beliefs are extreme and flat our wrong but there is a time and place for saying them. The OP has just lost a friend to a tragic accident and is seeking some for of emotional closure and healing. The last thing he needs to here or anyone reading this is your disgusting opinion that an innocent girl who died in a tragic accident is automatically in hell for being an atheist.

Peace.

I understand. The thread creator asked for my (name removed by moderator)ut, though. ,It was directed towards everyone. My motivation is not to cause distress-- it is to be the man that God asks me to be, which is to say that I have to be honest about what I believe and what the Qur’an and/or Hadiths say, even if I become unpopular in doing so. As I said before, you can feel free to disregard what I say if it bothers you.

 

[Beryllos]

Since this thread was posted (inadvertently?) in the Non-Catholic Religions forum, expect to see some non-Catholic points of view. Don’t get upset about that.

 

[Trident_H]

Excellent questions!

Ah, but you see, we [muslims] contend that Islam dates back all the way to our parents, Adam and Eve [peace be upon him]. We contend that is the same religion taught by all the prophets-- not just by Muhammad [peace be upon him]. Fitra is a non-discriminatory; it has applied to all babies that ever were born and it applies to all babies that will be born.

K drac. I think we could have a lot of fun going back and forth with this. But I’m not sure it wouldn’t end with the OP’s eyes glazing over.

The key thing we disagree on? Everything. So there’s that.

But I don’t want you thinking I’ve got my foot on your neck here. I don’t. It’s just you’ve got to be pretty damn sure you’re in the right before you tell a guy his sweet 15-year-old friend is being tormented for an eternity and-by-the-way-God-is-super-good-trust-me.

I mean come on. If you’ve got the slightest doubt about this take your bow here. Or if you’ve got an ounce of compassion give that inch anyway. There’s no point in smiling behind this line in the sand. Or fake frowning. Or whatever it is you’re doing right now.

Peace drac.

-Trident

 

[drac16]

K drac. I think we could have a lot of fun going back and forth with this. But I’m not sure it wouldn’t end with the OP’s eyes glazing over.

The key thing we disagree on? Everything. So there’s that.

But I don’t want you thinking I’ve got my foot on your neck here. I don’t. It’s just you’ve got to be pretty damn sure you’re in the right before you tell a guy his sweet 15-year-old friend is being tormented for an eternity and-by-the-way-God-is-super-good-trust-me.

I mean come on. If you’ve got the slightest doubt about this take your bow here. Or if you’ve got an ounce of compassion give that inch anyway. There’s no point in smiling behind this line in the sand. Or fake frowning. Or whatever it is you’re doing right now.

Peace drac.

-Trident

We certainly have differences. You have just as much right to post here as I do. Believe me, had this thread been posted in something like Moral Theology or whatever, I would’ve avoided it because those threads tend to only want a Catholic perspective (and understandably so; they have the right to)

I’m not some gremlin who enjoys talking about Hell and who goes there; truth be told, when I read about Hell, it isn’t easy. I came here to share my perspective, which is Islamic. I have the right to, so long as I don’t break the rules of the Forum. I don’t believe I broke any.

I don’t want people to go to Hell. If you get anything out of my posts, get that.

 

[CatholicHero]

We certainly have differences. You have just as much right to post here as I do. Believe me, had this thread been posted in something like Moral Theology or whatever, I would’ve avoided it because those threads tend to only want a catholic perspective (and understandably so).

I’m not some gremlin who enjoys talking about Hell and who goes there; truth be told, when I read about Hell, it isn’t easy. I came here to share my perspective, which is Islamic. I have the right to, so long as I don’t break the rules of the Forum. I don’t believe I broke any.

I don’t want people to go to Hell. If you get anything out of my posts, get that.

I would have reported you since you did break forum rules if it was not for my burning passion for the first amendment of the constitution.

 

[drac16]

Anyhow, I think this thread has run its course. Let us leave it at that. Peace.

 

[Trident_H]

We certainly have differences. You have just as much right to post here as I do. Believe me, had this thread been posted in something like Moral Theology or whatever, I would’ve avoided it because those threads tend to only want a Catholic perspective (and understandably so; they have the right to)

I’m not some gremlin who enjoys talking about Hell and who goes there; truth be told, when I read about Hell, it isn’t easy. I came here to share my perspective, which is Islamic. I have the right to, so long as I don’t break the rules of the Forum. I don’t believe I broke any.

I don’t want people to go to Hell. If you get anything out of my posts, get that.

Ok. That sounds pretty good and sincere. I’ll take that. We can now kiss cheeks and rub palms. No hard feelings.

Peace drac. Thanks for striking a fair pose. Sorry about the toe-to-toe.

-Trident