Can an Eastern Catholic parish be put up

[ConstantineTG]

…in places that there are Catholics but not Eastern Catholics?

So far I’ve read from websites is that Eastern Rite parishes are put up where the community of Eastern Catholics live or have settled in a new land (like US or Canada). Is this a requirement? Or can a new parish be put up where there is significan interest in say the Byzantine Rite (Divine Liturgy) and hence also become a Mission parish to get people into Eastern Catholicism, either as converts or those who might seek a change in canonical status.

 

[jmcrae]

…in places that there are Catholics but not Eastern Catholics?

So far I’ve read from websites is that Eastern Rite parishes are put up where the community of Eastern Catholics live or have settled in a new land (like US or Canada). Is this a requirement? Or can a new parish be put up where there is significan interest in say the Byzantine Rite (Divine Liturgy) and hence also become a Mission parish to get people into Eastern Catholicism, either as converts or those who might seek a change in canonical status.

If there are no Eastern Catholics in the area, who is supposed to pay for this new building, and where would you get the priest from?

The Church doesn’t normally encourage people to switch Rites, and in fact, only for a very serious reason, an individual may do so once in their lifetime. They can’t switch back later on; if you pick something other than what you were born into, then you have to stick with it for the rest of your life.

It is not possible to become a “tourist of Rites.”

 

[Aramis]

…in places that there are Catholics but not Eastern Catholics?

So far I’ve read from websites is that Eastern Rite parishes are put up where the community of Eastern Catholics live or have settled in a new land (like US or Canada). Is this a requirement? Or can a new parish be put up where there is significan interest in say the Byzantine Rite (Divine Liturgy) and hence also become a Mission parish to get people into Eastern Catholicism, either as converts or those who might seek a change in canonical status.

It’s rare, but it has happened. If the bishops agree one is needed for some reason, it can happen.

My home parish was just such a mission. Established to convert the Orthodox. (It failed. Only a handful of Orthodox families translated since it was established in 1958… Tho’ the Sipree family is huge, and in its 3rd generation now…)

It is, however, a vibrant community of mixed origin. It being here meant a number of Ruthenian and Ukrainian families who came through with the Army or Air Force opted to stay and/or return. A number of Romans made the translation as well. And no shortage of protestant converts, either.

And of course, a few families of other ECC’s… one family, an army family, was Chaldean, another Maronite. Both have since moved on, but they are remembered (and missed).

 

[ConstantineTG]

If there are no Eastern Catholics in the area, who is supposed to pay for this new building, and where would you get the priest from?

The Church doesn’t normally encourage people to switch Rites, and in fact, only for a very serious reason, an individual may do so once in their lifetime. They can’t switch back later on; if you pick something other than what you were born into, then you have to stick with it for the rest of your life.

It is not possible to become a “tourist of Rites.”

Why not? Many do that all the time. I’ve been dying to get the Divine Liturgy into my schedule for at least once a month.

I was just thinking, how can Eastern Churches expand beyond its ethnic membership. The population growth by intermarriage is small. In places like North America, the Catholic population is growing but mainly because of immigration. Most migrants are coming from Latin Rite countries like Mexico, Philippines and other South American countries. I guess this comes from my thoughts about what does the Church do to ensure the Eastern traditions are preserved.

 

[jmcrae]

Why not? Many do that all the time. I’ve been dying to get the Divine Liturgy into my schedule for at least once a month.

I was just thinking, how can Eastern Churches expand beyond its ethnic membership. The population growth by intermarriage is small. In places like North America, the Catholic population is growing but mainly because of immigration. Most migrants are coming from Latin Rite countries like Mexico, Philippines and other South American countries. I guess this comes from my thoughts about what does the Church do to ensure the Eastern traditions are preserved.

Surely it is the responsibility of the home community to pass on its own traditions? Who better to do it? I think it would become very diluted, if outsiders were given the responsibility of trying to preserve a way of life that we can only understand on the surface - those brought up in it are surely the ones who should be passing it on to the next generation - hopefully their own children.

 

[StrawberryJam]

…in places that there are Catholics but not Eastern Catholics?

So far I’ve read from websites is that Eastern Rite parishes are put up where the community of Eastern Catholics live or have settled in a new land (like US or Canada). Is this a requirement? Or can a new parish be put up where there is significan interest in say the Byzantine Rite (Divine Liturgy) and hence also become a Mission parish to get people into Eastern Catholicism, either as converts or those who might seek a change in canonical status.

Gimme a break already! All is fair game in this stuff. Unless it is prohibited by local laws, not laws that don’t count.
If you want to take this a step further, you will be in big trouble explaining how your church did the very same thing you are upset by!

 

[ConstantineTG]

Gimme a break already! All is fair game in this stuff. Unless it is prohibited by local laws, not laws that don’t count.
If you want to take this a step further, you will be in big trouble explaining how your church did the very same thing you are upset by!

Huh? I’m getting a feeling that you are understanding in my question in a way that I did not mean. First of all, I am not upset at anything. I wonder where you got that?

 

[ConstantineTG]

Surely it is the responsibility of the home community to pass on its own traditions? Who better to do it? I think it would become very diluted, if outsiders were given the responsibility of trying to preserve a way of life that we can only understand on the surface - those brought up in it are surely the ones who should be passing it on to the next generation - hopefully their own children.

True, but there are a lot of Latin Catholics out there who are not Western Europeans

 

[StrawberryJam]

Huh? I’m getting a feeling that you are understanding in my question in a way that I did not mean. First of all, I am not upset at anything. I wonder where you got that?

I apologize. It is a very very contentious issue where I live amoung those who are in and not “in” with Rome yet are Orthodox… it is a horrible topic really.
What is being done to help mend this wound?
Stuff like this?

 

[ConstantineTG]

I apologize. It is a very very contentious issue where I live amoung those who are in and not “in” with Rome yet are Orthodox… it is a horrible topic really.
What is being done to help mend this wound?
Stuff like this?

Sorry, but as an outsider I am not aware of such issues

I am actually interested with Eastern Rites being more accessible to more Catholics. Coming from a country which is 80% Latin Catholics, most people there don’t even know there are any other Rites other than the Roman Rite. I’ve learned everything I know about Eastern Rites in the last 1 year.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I apologize. It is a very very contentious issue where I live amoung those who are in and not “in” with Rome yet are Orthodox… it is a horrible topic really.
What is being done to help mend this wound?
Stuff like this?

Can you help me out by pointing what in my original post is offensive?

 

[StrawberryJam]

Can you help me out by pointing what in my original post is offensive?

Territory, and questions of boundries are not easy topics for either side from what I learned in my time studying you both. It gets very ugly about how and who can go where, and who does what in an area that is mostly made up of one or the other.
You can not tell me that you are blissfully unaware of this fact can you?

 

[ConstantineTG]

Territory, and questions of boundries are not easy topics for either side from what I learned in my time studying you both. It gets very ugly about how and who can go where, and who does what in an area that is mostly made up of one or the other.
You can not tell me that you are blissfully unaware of this fact can you?

I honestly actually am.
Like I said, I came from a predominantly Roman Catholic country and before the internet, most people are unaware of Eastern Catholics, let alone issues like this one. I’ve never been that interested to google about the faith until the past year where I learned a lot. But I’m still unaware of such issues. I now live in a country that grants me access to the various Rites of the Church and I was just thinking, how can other people from my home country have access to it as well? I think its a great treasure of our Church to have all the different traditions come together in one faith.

 

[jmcrae]

I honestly actually am.

The general principle that cultural appropriation is sinful also applies to this situation.

“Cultural appropriation” is seen, for example (this is the most blatant example of it), when white people dress up in Native North American clothing, especially eagle headdresses - or attempt to recreate Native ceremonies. You are no doubt aware of how badly the Native community reacts to that sort of thing. Even taking their ceremonial objects and displaying them in museums as art objects is upsetting to the Native community, and I’m sure you’ve read in the newspaper from time to time how this tribe or that tribe is rescuing some of their precious religious or cultural objects from this or that museum.

In this situation, you are proposing that Latin Rite Catholics build and operate an Eastern Rite Church, in order to “have the experience.” NO. That’s a sin. We’re not to appropriate other people’s culture - not even if it’s going to be educational.

Like I said, I came from a predominantly Roman Catholic country and before the internet, most people are unaware of Eastern Catholics, let alone issues like this one. I’ve never been that interested to google about the faith until the past year where I learned a lot. But I’m still unaware of such issues. I now live in a country that grants me access to the various Rites of the Church and I was just thinking, how can other people from my home country have access to it as well?

The only appropriate way would be for a legitimate Eastern Rite community to build their own Church, ordain their own priest, and then invite members of the Latin Rite to visit them from time to time.

I think its a great treasure of our Church to have all the different traditions come together in one faith.

Yes, it is - but the only way to do it is for the legitimate holders of each tradition to establish their own Churches, and then invite the others to participate in their Mass.

 

[jmcrae]

True, but there are a lot of Latin Catholics out there who are not Western Europeans

And?

Being Latin Rite has nothing to do with being Western European. The culture of the Latin Rite is expressed through the EF and OF Masses, through the various devotions such as the Rosary, the Prayer to St. Michael, the Liturgy of the Hours, the Divine Mercy, the prayer to the Guardian Angels, meal time prayers, the Sign of the Cross. Litany of the Saints, etc. It has nothing to do with how we dress, what language we speak, or the colour of our skin.

 

[ConstantineTG]

And?

Being Latin Rite has nothing to do with being Western European. The culture of the Latin Rite is expressed through the EF and OF Masses, through the various devotions such as the Rosary, the Prayer to St. Michael, the Liturgy of the Hours, the Divine Mercy, the prayer to the Guardian Angels, meal time prayers, the Sign of the Cross. Litany of the Saints, etc. It has nothing to do with how we dress, what language we speak, or the colour of our skin.

You said its the job of the home community to pass on the traditions. I understand it as people of the ethnic background of the Church sui juris. My apologies if I misinterpreted your statement.

Filipinos were mostly pagans when the Spanish came and through the Inquisition, the country was converted. If we can be converted to the Latin Rite, why can’t we convert to an Eastern Rite?

 

[jmcrae]

You said its the job of the home community to pass on the traditions. I understand it as people of the ethnic background of the Church sui juris. My apologies if I misinterpreted your statement.

In the Eastern Rite, unfortunately ethnic identity and religious identity are often intermingled. It need not be so, but they do sometimes look with suspicion on people of different ethnic identity than themselves - and it would be expected that you would dress like they dress, speak their language, eat their food, and so on - which would be very interesting for a while, but then later on, you might feel homesick for the things you were brought up with. You’d have to be very certain that God was calling you to that new culture and new way of life.

Filipinos were mostly pagans when the Spanish came and through the Inquisition, the country was converted. If we can be converted to the Latin Rite, why can’t we convert to an Eastern Rite?

If one exists in your area, you can - once, only, with no option to return to the Latin Rite.

There is a huge difference between converting to the Catholic faith from Paganism (being snatched from the jaws of Hell, basically, and and having your feet set on the road to Heaven) and switching Rites.

Normally, you should stay in the Rite into which you were baptized.

 

[ConstantineTG]

The general principle that cultural appropriation is sinful also applies to this situation.

“Cultural appropriation” is seen, for example (this is the most blatant example of it), when white people dress up in Native North American clothing, especially eagle headdresses - or attempt to recreate Native ceremonies. You are no doubt aware of how badly the Native community reacts to that sort of thing. Even taking their ceremonial objects and displaying them in museums as art objects is upsetting to the Native community, and I’m sure you’ve read in the newspaper from time to time how this tribe or that tribe is rescuing some of their precious religious or cultural objects from this or that museum.

Actually, no. I know Filipinos for the most part love to share their culture. We do not have international celebrities like most other countries, people like Manny Pacquiao are one in a million. When we see other people wear our national costumes, eat our food, dance to our songs, we actually are proud that another culture sees the value of ours.

In this situation, you are proposing that Latin Rite Catholics build and operate an Eastern Rite Church, in order to “have the experience.” NO. That’s a sin. We’re not to appropriate other people’s culture - not even if it’s going to be educational.

No, that is not what I said. I’m asking if an Eastern Rite Church can be built, by Eastern Catholics of course, in a location that has mostly if not all Roman Catholics. I never said that Latin Rite Catholics will build and operate. Read my post again, its not there. I never thought I needed to specify it that way anyway because from what I know you can’t expect a Latin Rite priest or bishop to know the ins and outs of another Rite’s traditions. So to me it was never a question. I may be ignorant of many things about Eastern Catholics, but I’m not that ignorant.

The only appropriate way would be for a legitimate Eastern Rite community to build their own Church, ordain their own priest, and then invite members of the Latin Rite to visit them from time to time.

Yes, this is what I am suggesting. But the question is, would they build somewhere where there are no Eastern Catholics to begin with? Its not like its going to be a mission into a non-Christian or non-Catholic location. Its a mostly Catholic location, but there are no Eastern Catholics.

Yes, it is - but the only way to do it is for the legitimate holders of each tradition to establish their own Churches, and then invite the others to participate in their Mass.

What about missions? Missions usually means no one in that area are Christians or Catholics. So can the same be done for an area that has Catholics of a different Rite? That was my question.

 

[ConstantineTG]

In the Eastern Rite, unfortunately ethnic identity and religious identity are often intermingled. It need not be so, but they do sometimes look with suspicion on people of different ethnic identity than themselves - and it would be expected that you would dress like they dress, speak their language, eat their food, and so on - which would be very interesting for a while, but then later on, you might feel homesick for the things you were brought up with. You’d have to be very certain that God was calling you to that new culture and new way of life.

The Greek Orthodox I know have started a church in the Philippines, so I’m wondering if an Eastern Catholic Rite can come in even though there are no (maybe very few) Eastern Catholics in the country.

If one exists in your area, you can - once, only, with no option to return to the Latin Rite.

There is a huge difference between converting to the Catholic faith from Paganism (being snatched from the jaws of Hell, basically, and and having your feet set on the road to Heaven) and switching Rites.

Normally, you should stay in the Rite into which you were baptized.

Normally, yes. I guess sometimes its just a case of the grass being always greener on the other side. Reminds me this morning I saw on Family Feud. One family from Minessota wants to go to California for a vacation if they win. The other family from Florida wants to go to Alaska if they win. I just laughed out loud.

I personally believe that Eastern Catholicism has a lot of offer back home. Filipinos are deeply religious but many are disillusioned with the faith. Not because of the faith itself or the Church, but how things are in the country. Adhereing to another tradition of the same faith might be the fresh start a lot of people are looking for in the faith, and its not like they’re actually changing faiths, but the new traditions sure would make it feel new to them and also get them more interested.

 

[jmcrae]

No, that is not what I said. I’m asking if an Eastern Rite Church can be built, by Eastern Catholics of course, in a location that has mostly if not all Roman Catholics.

Where would these Eastern Catholics come from?

Are you asking if there are any Eastern Catholics on CAF who will travel out to where you live and build an Eastern Catholic Church there?

I never said that Latin Rite Catholics will build and operate. Read my post again, its not there. I never thought I needed to specify it that way anyway because from what I know you can’t expect a Latin Rite priest or bishop to know the ins and outs of another Rite’s traditions. So to me it was never a question. I may be ignorant of many things about Eastern Catholics, but I’m not that ignorant.

My apologies. Unfortunately, some people are so I just wanted to be absolutely clear about that aspect.

Yes, this is what I am suggesting. But the question is, would they build somewhere where there are no Eastern Catholics to begin with? Its not like its going to be a mission into a non-Christian or non-Catholic location. Its a mostly Catholic location, but there are no Eastern Catholics.

This is something you would have to ask them.

Considerations that they would have to take into account would be, the initial cost of building, the cost of upkeep, and what return they would get in the way of interest, and whether the existing local community would welcome them or even support them at all.