Can an Intersex person receive the Sacrament of Holy Orders?

[carefullytread]

After reading a good discussion in another thread about why the priesthood is restricted to men, I was wondering what the Church teaches on intersex people. Reading about the many ways people can be intersex shows that there is wide range of genotypic and phenotypic manifestations of sex besides the familiar “man” and “woman”.

What does the Church teach about the validity of Holy Orders for such people?

NB this is a completely separate issue from transgenderism. I’m not asking about that. I’m specifically asking about biologically ambiguous people.

 

[Brandon_Cal]

Interesting question. I doubt any of the apostolic churches have truly wrestled with this question yet since intersexed conditions are a rarity to begin with, let alone a person with such a condition then feeling called to Holy Orders. It may be that the churches recognize that all individuals, including those who are intersexed, have one true, metaphysical sex/gender while denying entry to the priesthood to such individuals due to the ambiguity of their “true metaphysical sex”.

I do wonder what the response would be from individuals who insist one’s “maleness” is identifiable by the mere presence of a Y-chromosome. I wonder what such respondents would think about these “men” being ordained:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[Rosebud77]

After reading a good discussion in another thread about why the priesthood is restricted to men, I was wondering what the Church teaches on intersex people. Reading about the many ways people can be intersex shows that there is wide range of genotypic and phenotypic manifestations of sex besides the familiar “man” and “woman”.

What does the Church teach about the validity of Holy Orders for such people?

NB this is a completely separate issue from transgenderism. I’m not asking about that. I’m specifically asking about biologically ambiguous people.

In previous generations unless the difference were obvious ie as long as a man looked like a man, who would know or seek to know? Why would it matter?

This age is so totally and unhealthily obsessed with sex above all else. The young ones even here speak so openly and freely about things that were private and should be private.

In my youth this was not so.We had minds above and beyond sexuality etc. It was kept inits rightful balanced place. Needs to be put back there!

As children and young adults we did not even know re homosexuality, ieabout the sex life of our friends. That was private, off limits, with respect and decorum and tact.

 

[pensmama87]

In previous generations unless the difference were obvious ie as long as a man looked like a man, who would know or seek to know? Why would it matter?

This age is so totally and unhealthily obsessed with sex above all else. The young ones even here speak so openly and freely about things that were private and should be private.

In my youth this was not so.We had minds above and beyond sexuality etc. It was kept inits rightful balanced place. Needs to be put back there!

As children and young adults we did not even know re homosexuality, ieabout the sex life of our friends. That was private, off limits, with respect and decorum and tact.

In some ways yes, and in some ways no. There are things that can fester when they are kept secret that are better brought into the open so the truth can be dealt with.

I think truth, that is, factual, real information, not titillation, is very important, and I think this is a useful question. I don’t know if there is any real answer. There are men who suffer from various other disorders that would prevent them from holy orders, and in the case of a truly ambiguous sex I don’t think you could ordain such a person.

 

[Rosebud77]

In some ways yes, and in some ways no. There are things that can fester when they are kept secret that are better brought into the open so the truth can be dealt with.

I think truth, that is, factual, real information, not titillation, is very important, and I think this is a useful question. I don’t know if there is any real answer. There are men who suffer from various other disorders that would prevent them from holy orders, and in the case of a truly ambiguous sex I don’t think you could ordain such a person.

We are not on the same wavelength on this. It is the lack of any restraiint , or what we would call modesty. Or even purity.

Not what you are referring to

Makes me relieved that I will soon be “home”

And this is not really thus a place that is good to be in many ways.

 

[GEddie]

Not only is intersexuality rare, it’s being discovered (in the case where there are no obvious deformations to the solid body) is even rarer. Genotypic testing is not commonly done.

If there were obvious body deformations, I doubt that admittance to Holy Orders would ever be considered. Not when men are rejected from priesthood for missing a finger on one hand.

The genotypical testing has only existed for about three generations. Before it existed, the persons in your photograph would simply have been accepted as female, and no priestly issue would exist.

So you’re asking about a situation a) since the late 1900s where b) someone is in an intersexual body condition, c) proven genotypically, and d) is seeking ordination in the Catholic Church. Such an issue would be so rare that the Church has not seen fit to pronounce on it.

But when it did happen (particularly if the formational applicant looked female but was a man), I’d imagine that the bishop or community would simply not proceed.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Wesrock]

This is just my opinion, but chromosomes are just a blue print, not the person. The whole self is something greater, and not reducible to chromosomes. Maybe that makes things less black and white, less of some discriminatory test, but I can hold that while still holding that male and female are real differences. The people in the above photograph are 100% women, assuming there’s no ambiguity in physiology.

As for intersex people with more obvious physiological ambiguity? Well, for the sake of unambiguity in the validity in ordination, it may be just to be more discriminatory than less. There isn’t a need to try to find out where any real line may be and define it perfectly. It’s okay if the line is drawn approrpiately to be on the “safe side”, outside of any ambiguity, even if reality is more muddled. I say this really only in regards to drawing a line for holy orders, not necessarily for other things. The priesthood is not just another job or profession.

 

[Tarpeian_Rock]

Which raises a question: do candidates for Holy Orders (priesthood or diaconate) receive a physical examination to see if their biology is consistent with their self-identification? That would seem to be a possible issue today, as gender is getting purged from official records by the forces of Polotical Correctness.

 

[Luz_Maria]

Which raises a question: do candidates for Holy Orders (priesthood or diaconate) receive a physical examination to see if their biology is consistent with their self-identification? That would seem to be a possible issue today, as gender is getting purged from official records by the forces of Polotical Correctness.

Women receive a complete physical and psychological exam before entering the convent; therefore, I do not see why men would not go through the same for the priesthood, etc. Does any one know for sure?

 

[GEddie]

Some areas need **less **nuance, not more. Unfairness is not an issue in this instance, as there is **no **right to ordination!

ICXC NIKA

 

[Thorolfr]

If there were obvious body deformations, I doubt that admittance to Holy Orders would ever be considered. Not when men are rejected from priesthood for missing a finger on one hand.

ICXC NIKA

Why do priests have to have ten fingers? I know someone, for example, who accidentally sliced off one of his fingers with a saw while doing woodwork.

 

[GEddie]

Why do priests have to have ten fingers? I know someone, for example, who accidentally sliced off one of his fingers with a saw while doing woodwork.

Possibly because his hands become the hands of our LORD, and so cannot be “blemished”?

ICXC NIKA

 

[Arizona_Fat_Gir]

What does the group of friendly women have to do with this, I wonder. They are not “ambiguous”, although I have honestly seen people whom I could not distinguish were male or female.

We had occasion to meet the child of someone once, and my husband referred to her as that person’s son. The individual said, “Oh, no. That’s my daughter!”

The kid was 12 or 13. Imagine how she must have felt!

 

[Brendan]

Why do priests have to have ten fingers? I know someone, for example, who accidentally sliced off one of his fingers with a saw while doing woodwork.

They have to have sufficient fingers to properly hold the chalice and host. If a priestly candidate has fewer, the requirement can be dispensed.

One of the tortures inflicted on St. Issac Jogues when he was captured by the Mohawk was cutting off his thumbs and index fingers, so that he could not hold the Host.

After his release, he obtained permission from the Pope to continue to say Mass, holding the Host between other fingers.

 

[otjm]

They have to have sufficient fingers to properly hold the chalice and host. If a priestly candidate has fewer, the requirement can be dispensed.

One of the tortures inflicted on St. Issac Jogues when he was captured by the Mohawk was cutting off his thumbs and index fingers, so that he could not hold the Host.

After his release, he obtained permission from the Pope to continue to say Mass, holding the Host between other fingers.

We have a pastor in our archdiocese who is missing this right hand and lower arm almost to the elbow. Mu understanding is that it went back to childhood. It can be dispensed if it is still an issue (it was my impression that the rubrics were not as specific as before - but I do not have the answer to that part.)