Can Animals be Guilty of Sin?

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…sorry for the misunderstanding… it sounded like your parrot was on the bends and then you expanded by inculpating yourself as the source of the parrots unrestrained words…

No harm done!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
So, I think when the passage says, “it” it is referring to the altar, and that by taking away it’s sin, it means to make it holy, sort of like blessing a sacramental.
 
Exactly!

Remember how a Priest incenses the altar, the cups, the servers, the people?.. it is in preparation for engaging God!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
No, animals don’t sin. They never had a fall like humans. They can, however, do good.
 
They really don’t. They have a brain that allows them to perform basic functions.

They can’t abstract universals from particulars, they can’t form or extract concepts. They can’t perform logical operations.

The differences between us and animals isn’t one of mere degree; it’s a difference of kind.
 
Edward_H said:
They really don’t. They have a brain that allows them to perform basic functions.
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Ask anyone has ever owned a dog to say that!
Edward_H said:
They can’t abstract universals from particulars, they can’t form or extract concepts. They can’t perform logical operations.
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Read this article: Overestimating Our Intelligence: Just How Smart Are Other Animals? | Psychology Today Canada
and this one:
"Are We Smart Enough to Know How Smart Animals Are?" | Psychology Today Canada
 
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I never read psychology today, perhaps the magazine with the lowest IQ population. Pop people.
 
MCH1 said:
They never had a fall like humans
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Adam’s fall sort of includes the animals within it.

But, the thread is not about the literal question of the title but about the meaning of the quoted Scripture.
 
Yes, they fell in sense that they can now die, but they cannot commit evil like humans can.
 
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That’s all you have too, light or otherwise.
 
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Since we can’t know for certain, that’s all any of us have. We can debate our reasoning, but we can’t know for sure.
 
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Animals certainly can work stuff out. They hunt together, watch a pack of killer whales. You can send a kelpie out on 200 acres to bring back a mob of sheep. That dog must think independently and problem solve.
Native animals can be taught to avoid eating toxic spp like cane toads, in one generation. They then pass this knowledge down to offspring.
Animals use tools. Ravens and primates for example. I have a boar here that picks all his fav foods up, dumps them in his water trough , then eats them, every single time. I can teach month old piglets to sit in 5 minutes. They are that smart.
Octopus are amazingly smart.
 
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MCH1 said:
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Edward_H:
They really don’t. They have a brain that allows them to perform basic functions.
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Ask anyone has ever owned a dog to say that!
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So, here’s the thing: if you are in the same camp as the behaviorists (that is, you believe that humans’ actions can be fully described without making recourse to feelings or thoughts), then you would naturally believe that animals can be described in exactly the same way.

And guess what? You can! You can easily look at a dog’s ‘reaction’ and say “it’s the same as my reaction! We must have similar intelligences!”

In fact, that’s what your second link is getting at – the author whose book is being reviewed is squarely in the behaviorist worldview. From the book being reviewed:
What separates your mind from an animal’s? Maybe you think it’s your ability to design tools, your sense of self, or your grasp of past and future
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See? If that’s how you define yourself – tool usage, etc – then you will think that animals and humans are equivalent.

On the other hand, if you use different criteria, then you’ll reach a different conclusion. 😉
MCH1 said:
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Edward_H:
Superficial people…pop. prone to trendiness. Light.
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That is your opinion.
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Psychology Today really is just pop psychology, expressed in terms accessible by the general public. 🤷‍♂️
 
I get your point. However all I’ve seen shows me that animals are indeed rational. However, we don’t know enough of the animal mind to say for sure at this point.
 
MCH1 said:
I get your point. However all I’ve seen shows me that animals are indeed rational. However, we don’t know enough of the animal mind to say for sure at this point.
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A human being alone can ponder his/her own existence.
Human beings alone are self aware.
Human beings alone can say “I am”. No other creature has that appreciation and ability to consider it’s own existence,
and,
everything that comes with it:
Questions about meaning, being, truth, identity, purpose.
No other creature does that.
Human beings are wired to seek something outside our own small passions and instincts. And to the degree we pursue that search, we are fully human. To the degree we live in our base passions and instincts for their own sake, we are less human.
 
MCH1 said:
animals are indeed rational. However, we don’t know enough of the animal mind to say for sure at this point.
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That’s a rather strong claim!

How would you define ‘rationality’?
 
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