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Hisalone
Guest
No man can say Im outside Christs Assembly when He has sanctified me.
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CHESTERTONRULES
Guest
The is only one Catholic Doctrine. This Doctrine has not ruled on every issue. However, where it has ruled, there is unity.
Individuals may say that they disagree with the Church, but this simply means that they aren’t faithful to the Church. This is entirely different than multiple Churches teaching multiple doctrines.
There is no unity of doctrine outside the Church.
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a_mirror_dimly
Guest
You just moved the goal posts from unified on “ALL TRUTH” to unified on Catholic Doctrine.
You last statement is difficult to respond to without understanding what you mean by it. Are you asserting that no one but the Catholic Church has doctrines which are essential to the faith?
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CHESTERTONRULES
Guest
I’m saying that regarding central issues of faith, the Church is protected from teaching error by the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
This is and has always been true.
Non Catholics are divided on issues of faith and morals.
What is the protestant position on baptism, for example?
How about the gifts of the spirit?
How about eternal security?
How about abortion, or gay marriage?
There is no firm position among non catholics on any of these issues.
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a_mirror_dimly
Guest
Well, if “non-catholics” includes non-christians then of course there is not agreement on anything. Now if you’re specifically talking about non-catholic christians, who would you define as christian?
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CHESTERTONRULES
Guest
A christian is a follower of Christ, IMO.
I’ll restate my question:
Non Catholic CHRISTIANS are divided on issues of faith and morals.
What is the protestant position on baptism, for example?
How about the gifts of the spirit?
How about eternal security?
How about abortion, or gay marriage?
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a_mirror_dimly
Guest
Well then I would tell you that Christians are united in belief the fall of man, the death and resurrection of Jesus for the restoration of man’s relationship with God, and the Triune nature of God, for example.
Your argument seems to be that people are either united on everything or nothing. The Catholic Church itself stands as a counter-example to that claim.
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Peter_J
Guest
I’m reminded of during the Presidential debates, when the idea of sitting down with anyone, without pre-conditions, came up.
It’s kind of similar here. If someone starts out with the position that Protestants “should shut up and leave Catholics to the practice of our most holy faith”, then it may be a little difficult for a Protestant to sit down with him or her and try to have a dialogue. (As I said before, any argument you could make to the contrary would have to presuppose that you shouldn’t just “shut up”.)
Examining the problem a little further, it largely comes down to the fundamental situation of the internet: namely, we each have so much freedom to say whatever we want, that it all becomes almost worthless. (Obviously, I don’t say “completely worthless” – if I believed that, I wouldn’t bother participating on CAF in the first place.)
It’s kind of similar here. If someone starts out with the position that Protestants “should shut up and leave Catholics to the practice of our most holy faith”, then it may be a little difficult for a Protestant to sit down with him or her and try to have a dialogue. (As I said before, any argument you could make to the contrary would have to presuppose that you shouldn’t just “shut up”.)
Examining the problem a little further, it largely comes down to the fundamental situation of the internet: namely, we each have so much freedom to say whatever we want, that it all becomes almost worthless. (Obviously, I don’t say “completely worthless” – if I believed that, I wouldn’t bother participating on CAF in the first place.)
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cerad
Guest
Sounds like a reasonable idea. Does your founder post on this board? If not then do you an email address for him or her?Well… the Catholic Church is the original Church. If you have a problem with that, perhaps you should take it up with our founder?
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ufamtobie
Guest
The answer is a YES!
Read (John 6: 64-66 ) Yet among you there are some who do not believe." Jesus knew from the start, of course, the ones who WOULD REFUSE to BELIEVE, and the one who would hand him over.) He went on to say: “This is why I have told you that no one comes to me unless it is granted him by my father.” From this time on, MANY of His DISCIPLES BROKE AWAY and would not remain in his company ANY LONGER.
Hisalone, therefore those who broke away from Jesus NO LONGER are a part of Jesus Church.
HisAlone, you are WRONG! and the Answer is YES “A man or a woman can indeed say I am not part of Christ Church”
God Bless you on your Journey Home
Ufamtobie
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CHESTERTONRULES
Guest
That’s not true.
Some Christians don’t believe in the Trinity.
Do you deny that an understanding of Baptism is central to our faith?
How about eternal security(OSAS)?
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a_mirror_dimly
Guest
Wait, are we talking about self-identified Christians? Because by that definition, Catholics are not unified on doctrine either.
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CHESTERTONRULES
Guest
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a_mirror_dimly
Guest
Again, what is protestant? Is it simply a matter of self-identification, or is it defined by agreement to some set of beliefs? You keep looking for some central temporal authority over all protestants, when no one will argue that such a thing exists.
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CHESTERTONRULES
Guest
A protestant is someone who rejects Catholicism and is not Orthodox.
My point is that Jesus tells us that the spirit will lead us into truth.
My point is that Jesus prayed for unity among his followers.
Clearly there is no unity of doctrine among protestants.
So, the spirit is not leading protestants into all truth.
You can make the case logically that ONE protestant sect is true and the others less true.
However, because there is so much disagreement among protestants as to what is true, then you cannot make the case that protestantism as a whole is being led into all truth.
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Hisalone
Guest
You must change your error orr ill be condemned by it.
Christ has sealed me wth His Pormise.Your beliefs contrast God.
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CHESTERTONRULES
Guest
Do you believe this?
John 6
53Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him.
Or this:
John 20
21Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”
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Hisalone
Guest
All of scripture is truth.
Yes I beleive them —not as you
Do you believe this?
Jeremiah 31:
31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah-- 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, F23 says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”
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CHESTERTONRULES
Guest
It’s definitely not today!
What do these verses mean to you?
John 6
53Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him.
Or this:
John 20
21Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”
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Hisalone
Guest
Each disciple of Christ has been iven the ministry of reconciliation. We are to bring the gospel, which is Gods good news of forgiveness and reconcilaiation to Himself, to all men.
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