Can anybody explain the Orthodox Christian belief about contraception?

[ralphinal]

When was the condom invented?

I have read that it is a more efficient method of contraception than condoms.

I know of condoms that were discovered that dated from the 10th century. A quick google search dates them from 950 b.c. in Egypt. 16th century Italy had it used to prevent syphilis. They were condemned by the Catholic Church as early as 1605, and in the 1660s, a drop in birth rates in England were attributed to them.

NFP can be more effective, but God put it in us, so it is not the same. Plus, the act itself is still the natural act

 

[onacloudyday]

you have two issues.

sin of Onan who was killed by God for violating the law because he did not want to give his brother an heir as was the law since his brother died childless. his sin was selfishness he wanted children he conceived to be considered his own children not his brothers children. he broke Gods law and God killed him for it. nothing to do with reduced sex to selfish pleasure you reading into the story what is not there.

no you please provide pre-1800 orthodox patriarch or orthodox church father who say that in **marriage **couple use of condom or withdrawal to avoid conception of more children wrong. they never say that.

there is no change in orthodox teaching.

In my (admittedly informal) readings, it seems to me that the Sin of Onan has ALWAYS in Church history been considered to be a sin of lust because he took the woman and withdrew specifically to avoid impregnating her. In this way, he reduced sex to selfish pleasure instead of mutually self giving love. Onanism historically was defined as any such method like withdrawal or condoms (surprise, they aren’t new to history! Used to be sheep intestines…).

I’m pretty sure none of our Orthodox friends here can cite a pre-1800 patriarch or any Early Father defending the use of a condom or withdrawal for the purpose of avoiding conception. If they are honest, they are going to have to admit that it is a recent “insight” to determine that proactively defeating natural fertility can sometimes be OK depending on the situation. Note that NFP has never defeated or frustrated natural fertility. What surprises me the most is that its the catholics who recognized the difference and the crucial factor of a “sexual fast” (the NFP abstinance time) that opens the soul to hear God’s (name removed by moderator)ut on just how “serious” a couples reason for avoiding is. Usually orthodox spirituality is admittedly better at appreciating the value of fasting in hearing God’s voice… Why not this time??

EDIT:
On second thought, most catholics DON’T get it. A couple of popes ‘got it’, upheld the teaching even after the culture changed and it became unpopular and now a growing number of us are recognizing what a genius insight it truly was! THAT’s food for thought…

 

[onacloudyday]

father has be careful because childs sin become his responsibility before God if blessing given for something should not have been.

When Catholics say that this developed as the need arose, Orthodox throw words like “innovation” and such around. Why is the sauce for the goose no good for the gander? This is a clear change in understanding and an innovation, or from what I have seen here it is.

Now, as far as the Spiritual Father/child thing goes, I see a lot of merit in it. I do wonder, though, where the line is drawn. If, for example, someone claims to have a medical need to masterbate, can his Spiritual father remove any sin from it? What about things like the required fasts? Can they be lifted on a case by case basis?

 

[Madaglan]

When was the condom invented?

Shortly after balloons.

 

[NEWCATHOLICJEFF]

no teaching has been changed in orthodox. in history not as many contraception options except withdraw and nfp type methods now pills also available which do not kill conception baby. because something new available does not mean orthodox teaching changed.
you have confusing on how orthodox church is. you are used to catholic church have pope official authority over everything and everyone. orthodox church not like that. but even there is no pope infallible statement on the contraception only on pope infallibility and immaculate conception i think. catholic history show catholic teaching on things can change only now infallible pope statement not supposed to change. maybe im confusing on catholic church to.

What I have been reading says that Orthodox are in a state of determination.
They seem to be trying to decide what to do about Contraceptions and are about were the Roman Rite was in the 1960’s. They are a little more methodical due to not having a central authority to determine a course, but it looks like they will end up somewhere along the same path as the Latin Rite, which makes since because the are Pro-Life and not Pro-Death.

ad-orientem.blogspot.com/2007/02/does-orthodoxy-allow-contraception-or.html

Pills have not and likely will never be allowed by the Orthodox since they are abortificiants and cause abortions the same as IUD’s, so it really is only about Condoms and withdrawal and since they used to have prohibitions on withdrawal it is likely that they will eventually condemn condoms, as well since they seem to agree with Humanae Vitea.

I personally believe the debate is about life, I dont think the Orthodox church will fall for the Lambeth garbage of the protestants. Pope Paul the VI was right and I think they agree.

Life is life and death is death… can’t really split them apart…

 

[josephdaniel29]

Usually orthodox spirituality is admittedly better at appreciating the value of fasting in hearing God’s voice… Why not this time??

We normally abstain from sexual relations during normal fast days as it is, which equates to a little over half the year. Isn’t that enough?

Yours in Christ
Joe

 

[NEWCATHOLICJEFF]

We normally abstain from sexual relations during normal fast days as it is, which equates to a little over half the year. Isn’t that enough?

Yours in Christ
Joe

"A little more info then I really needed… but I am impressed… "

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

:bigyikes:

We normally abstain from sexual relations during normal fast days as it is, which equates to a little over half the year. Isn’t that enough?

Yours in Christ
Joe

 

[Mickey]

NFP can be more effective, but God put it in us, so it is not the same. Plus, the act itself is still the natural act

What do you mean. It is an effective contraceptive method. Furthermore, the Pope has commission a study on whether to allow condom use in extraordinary circumstances–just like the Orthodox.

 

[manualman]

We normally abstain from sexual relations during normal fast days as it is, which equates to a little over half the year. Isn’t that enough?

Impressive control of desires, but if you’ve decoupled it from the link between sexuality and procreation you’re not really getting the benefit of that fasting being a crucible test of your ‘serious reason’ to avoid pregnancy.

As mentioned before, catholics have a lot to learn from the East in matters of contemplation and fasting, but perhaps the street works both ways…

 

[onacloudyday]

you mean what? not make sense.

you know fasting practice of Christ’s freedom give us. freedom from passions of this world gluttony and lust.

if you fast from marriage relation for ‘benefit’ of control procreation then you not receive Christ’s freedom benefit. the real benefit of fasting.

then you fast not for love of God but for love of control. that not a good heart.

Impressive control of desires, but if you’ve decoupled it from the link between sexuality and procreation you’re not really getting the benefit of that fasting being a crucible test of your ‘serious reason’ to avoid pregnancy.

 

[manualman]

I think we don’t share the same primary language, so forgive me if I misunderstand you, but I think you misunderstand ME.

The abstinance period in NFP does two separate things.

1. Avoids sex during the fertile time.
2. Requires abstinance during the time God made passion the strongest as a physical/spiritual link that serves to allow us to hear God’s whispering voice. He tends not to raise his voice often…

It can be hard to understand until you’ve experienced it.

 

[NEWCATHOLICJEFF]

I think we don’t share the same primary language, so forgive me if I misunderstand you, but I think you misunderstand ME.

The abstinence period in NFP does two separate things.

1. Avoids sex during the fertile time.
2. Requires abstinence during the time God made passion the strongest as a physical/spiritual link that serves to allow us to hear God’s whispering voice. He tends not to raise his voice often…

It can be hard to understand until you’ve experienced it.

“I understand what you mean and I believe that eventually the Orthodox Church will likely agree, but they are even slower to confirm things as a group then the Latins since they have no central authority.”

“In the end to accept Onanism is to go against scripture and tradition. That will lead to looking at other forms of contraception on a case by case basis, which the local Orthodox priests is doing now. Eventually the Patriarchs are going to have to rule as Satan has a way of working on loose canon style Priests, Notre Dame is a good example, to push his agenda.”

“I really believe that it boils down to this, ANY act which is made for selfish reason that denies God the opportunity to create life through the marital union is sinful. I believe that NFP can be just as sinful as any other method and honestly in the US it would be VERY hard to justify its use in most families. Using the excuse of funding is usually a selfish act. If you think about it most families could allow for the child, they might have to cut out the COMCAST or the X-Box, but what is the value of a “Missed” life?”

As Forest Gump’s Mama would say… “Stupid is as Stupid does”, … I like “Selfish is as selfish does” or “Sinful is as Selfish does”…