Can anything be done about a clannish church?

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wacky&wonderful:
Don’t you think that I’d come across sounding whiny and childish? You can’t force people to like you. So they don’t play well with others…I don’t think that finding out I had written a letter of complaint would endear me to them. God is going to have to handle this all on his own.
God is giving you an opportunity to help fix a problem with Him. I would hope that you will help Him solve this problem.
 
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mosher:
God is giving you an opportunity to help fix a problem with Him. I would hope that you will help Him solve this problem.
Ouch. I feel I was led to that church and I wondered why. The priest has said more than once that he wonders why he ended up there. The church has a reputation as a hornet’s nest. One friend offered me money to leave. Another friend has steadfastly maintained that I was sent there for a reason. Can’t you see the bright yellow lettering on my forehead that says “COWARD”? Well, I will consider what you have said and proceed with extreme caution. Leaving town if this backfires is not an option.
 
wacky&wonderful:
Besides praying, is there anything that one can do about a rural church that is more like a club with restricted membership than a church? The families are all related and they are not interested in the least in opening up to those from the outside. Do these situations eventually work themselves out? Is it best to just leave them to themselves, even though they have been told by the bishop and others that they have to open up? The priest has become one of them, probably due to his great desire to be accepted and find favor with them.
I sympathize, I really do. I already told you in an earlier post about the difficulty of moving to our little Church. The priest who moved here at the same time is leaving now and we are getting a new priest who is already unpopular because he is Filipino and that is nothwhat the town was hoping for. They should be thanking their lucky stars they are getting a priest at all. Oh well. Our situation is more complicated. This is a town of only 3000 people, mostly the second generation of people who came from Italy. These people also have freeway overpasses and streets named after them. They went to school together, married each other. I hear about it all the time. We were brave enough or stupid enough, either way you want to look at it to buy a small business here- one that has been established for 100 years with the same family. That family wanted to move away. It’s been 16 months now in both the business and the Church and we are practically broke. He, he, we are broke, what am I saying? The reason? We are not the family that started the business. For some reason, the town feels it would be disloyal to the other family to buy from us since they were friends with them. The town is actually angry with us for buying the business in the first place. Not mad at the sellers for selling out and moving away-mad at us. Constantly we hear at both the Church and store, the so and sos never did it like this, etc. The old owners’ customers cancelled their accounts. All of the accounts we have left are ones from neighboring towns miles away. Except for the priest and a handful of people, the town won’t do business with us. Oh, well. Brave or stupid? we go to Mass every Sunday, we have joined their Church organizations even though very few people will speak to us, we patiently put the open sign in the window the rest of the week and go on about our business. We agonize through the parish potlucks, sitting at tables by ourselves. At the kids confirmation class, we had a contest- adults against kids in Catechism Trivia, it was called. Every time I gave the right answer, my team wouldn’t use it. Why? They did not trust me to know the catechism- I was a stranger. We lost to the kids. Questions like what is the holiest day of the week? Who is the Immaculate Conception? They couldn’t answer it, but did not trust me to give them the correct one. We have charitably donated to the town, our kids belong to several athletic groups etc. My son is popular because he is a really big kid and quite athletic. The town’s high school team was truly awful so they think my kid is just Mr. Football. At the last assembly they said- — look at the size of this kid! Here is our football future. Other than that, we are nothing, just nothing. And now our strongest supporter, the priest is leaving and we are getting one the town is talking against already and he isn’t even here yet! Smile, God loves you. 👍
 
wacky&wonderful:
Ouch. I feel I was led to that church and I wondered why. The priest has said more than once that he wonders why he ended up there. The church has a reputation as a hornet’s nest. One friend offered me money to leave. Another friend has steadfastly maintained that I was sent there for a reason. Can’t you see the bright yellow lettering on my forehead that says “COWARD”? Well, I will consider what you have said and proceed with extreme caution. Leaving town if this backfires is not an option.
LOL. We all have a little yeller’ in us. Just request anonimity with the Bishop. Tell him that you would like him to keep your identity confidential and he will comply.
 
Here’s a hug, ((((katewithak)))). What do you sell? Maybe it’s time to go high tech and have a web based business. If you do, put me on your mailing list.

Does the priest who is coming have any idea what he is walking into? Why is your current priest leaving?

My heart hurts for you and I will pray for your family and the new priest. Maybe he can get through to the people.
 
wacky&wonderful:
Here’s a hug, ((((katewithak)))). What do you sell? Maybe it’s time to go high tech and have a web based business. If you do, put me on your mailing list.

Does the priest who is coming have any idea what he is walking into? Why is your current priest leaving?

My heart hurts for you and I will pray for your family and the new priest. Maybe he can get through to the people.
Oh, it’s a bakery.
The priest know? I doubt it. He not even incardinated yet. He is still in the Philipines. I guess the priest has to be here five years before he is incardinated and can be the pastor. In the meantime, he will be the parochial administrator and have his contract renewed annually. Poor guy. The few parishioners who talk to us told me they wanted an English speaking American born white guy. He must be a real shock for them.
The other priest, well. Right after he got here the same day as us, the parishioners began taking exception to him. And to us. They said he was lazy, walked to the beat of a different drummer, did not visit the sick enough, etc, etc. They liked the other priest they had. I thought they meant the one before this one. No, they meant the one they had 15 years ago. He’s dead. They haven’t liked any priest since. Finally oe of the ladies wrote letters about this one to the Bishop and got herself suspended from all ministries for six months. Not what she expected from her letters. The Bishop came up here and told them all about our priest, that he was fine, excellent, we have a priest shortage, etc. He told them we were the smallest parish in his diocese etc. They continued to complain about this priest. When they came in the bakery and berated me for not doing what the old owner did, the priest lost his temper and told me the town was full of old shrews. The Bishop has promoted this priest- he is going to a much bigger, richer parish complete with three different languages and a Newman Center on top of it. I just gritted my teeth and held on to my seat. I was really afraid the Bishop would not send us one. This parish has had 7 priests in 15 years! They have not liked any of them! And these were fine priests who didn’t do anything wrong. I have never in all my born days ever seen anything like this. The deacon is the mayor of the town. The police chief’s wife is head of the Holy Women’s Society. And don’t even get me started on thepolice. They all went to school together so guess whose calls get answered? Not ours. The priest has threatened to go to the grand jury over the cops in town. Now that he is leaving, he wants me to do it. I’m a bit afraid of that, though.
I just keep thinking of this children’s book of the Nativity I saw once. It had a lovely oil picture of Mary on a donkey. Joseph was leading the donkey on foot. They were all by themselves and setting out across the desert at twilight. No one around, not knowing what the future held. So touching. I cling to that picture every day as I watch my husband get just a bit more discouraged. The poor thing. He works 17 hours a day. We will all be alright. You know the Beatitudes. 👍
 
wacky&wonderful:
Mosher, this church is not only rural, but the majority of the members are related to the original settlers of the area, who came here from Europe 200+ years ago. They have streets and other points of interest named after them. They are wealthy. Funny comment: I was introduced as, “This is Miss X, she’s not related to anybody!” .
Well, from all that you’ve related, that sounds like quite the compliment! If anyone says that again (I doubt they will, as softballs like that are usually only lobbed once), I’d beam and say, “Oh, you’re too kind”. Seriously, though, I’m sorry to hear this. The only thing I can suggest is to talk to that priest. Yes, he may be in the “in” crowd, but you should challenge him on that. Remind him of his vocattion: it’s not just a job, but a mission, and he has perhaps forgotten that.
wacky&wonderful:
I went to our diocese’s website to find a listing of other churches and mass times. I learned that this diocese is comprised of 125 parishes and 90,000 families = 450,000 people. There are 200 priests and 180 deacons. Talk about a shortage…so, in all honesty, I don’t think the bishop is going to care a whole lot about my concerns. There’s not a lot he can do about it.
Probably not.
 
I came from a town like this as well. Everyone grew up together and married each other and were confirmed together. So I thought this town would be the same. I was wrong. In the one I grew up in, we prayed for new people to come in. We wanted strangers, because our town was what they call a dying town. The industries had shut down and moved away and everyone was going broke. Same thing here. Dummy me, I thought they would welcome new people. But they don’t. It’s like they want the town to continue to fall apart. You know this town cannot even afford street lights? Really, really different. But they are convinced they know what they are doing. Who am I to argue in the Church or in the town?
 
katewithak, your story reads like something out of a novel. There will be a happy ending, I just wish I knew when that might be, and where.

Just a thought, but can you contact the former owners and get them to send a letter that you could then print out and hang in the window for the town to read? Something like: We are doing well and hope that you are too, that you are being treated well by our customers, etc…
 
wacky&wonderful:
katewithak, your story reads like something out of a novel. There will be a happy ending, I just wish I knew when that might be, and where.

Just a thought, but can you contact the former owners and get them to send a letter that you could then print out and hang in the window for the town to read? Something like: We are doing well and hope that you are too, that you are being treated well by our customers, etc…
No. Have no idea where they went. They just hightailed it out of town. In any case, I just think you must be patient, smile a lot, be friendly, and pray for them. Me too. We get to experience what it must be like for migrant workers or immigrants. You know? What you are going through and we are going through- it’s a gift from God. At least if we choose to accept it that way. Like Mission Impossible- your mission if you choose to accept it… 😃 I’ll remember you and your parish in my rosary tonight. Don’t be a stranger. 😃
 
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Sherlock:
Well, from all that you’ve related, that sounds like quite the compliment! If anyone says that again (I doubt they will, as softballs like that are usually only lobbed once), I’d beam and say, “Oh, you’re too kind”. Seriously, though, I’m sorry to hear this. The only thing I can suggest is to talk to that priest. Yes, he may be in the “in” crowd, but you should challenge him on that. Remind him of his vocattion: it’s not just a job, but a mission, and he has perhaps forgotten that.

You can’t talk to a person you cannot reach. Darn caller ID. I love my priest. He is Super Priest. Able to convert a roomful of athiests within hours. But here’s the painful part…I don’t have the right last name or something. I’m not sure exactly what the problem is. After Mass on a weekday I once asked to speak to him and he loudly replied that he didn’t have time, he was busy! He could have taken 2 steps, leaned close and whispered it. But instead, those standing nearby heard it and all I could do was stand there. Another time, again after the Mass on a weekday, I waited for the deacon and said that I needed to ask a question. Again, loud voice, I’m busy and I don’t have time! Both times all I needed was 30 seconds. I can talk in shorthand. I called the church one day to ask a question and was fully expecting to have to leave a message. Instead, the priest answers and the first thing out of his mouth after hearing my voice is that he is busy and has to leave to go visit the sick. I plunged right on and asked my question anyway. He calmed down a bit, but the conversation was still short. Yet I will see him leisurely stroll with someone else (inner circle?) and have a lovely interaction. Yup, I’m not one of the movers and shakers and so it doesn’t matter if I get tossed aside or not. He realizes his errors because he makes general apologies from the pulpit. I guess some are aimed at me. But talk is cheap and I have learned not to ask for or about anything. I do make encouraging comments to him ie: great homily, etc. If I had bad news from the doctor, I couldn’t ask for prayer from these people. If I were dying in the hospital, I’d be lucky to see ANY priest, forget about getting to see my own (unless my last name was…). More likely I’d get a prayer and some hand holding from whatever minister happened to be in the hallway. Oddly, there are other times when he will stop and make eye contact, or actually treat me with respect. I think it’s because maybe at those times none of the inner circle are around and he can do what he wants. I think he’s a puppet.
 
wacky&wonderful:
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Sherlock:
Well, from all that you’ve related, that sounds like quite the compliment! If anyone says that again (I doubt they will, as softballs like that are usually only lobbed once), I’d beam and say, “Oh, you’re too kind”. Seriously, though, I’m sorry to hear this. The only thing I can suggest is to talk to that priest. Yes, he may be in the “in” crowd, but you should challenge him on that. Remind him of his vocattion: it’s not just a job, but a mission, and he has perhaps forgotten that.

You can’t talk to a person you cannot reach. Darn caller ID. I love my priest. He is Super Priest. Able to convert a roomful of athiests within hours. But here’s the painful part…I don’t have the right last name or something. I’m not sure exactly what the problem is. After Mass on a weekday I once asked to speak to him and he loudly replied that he didn’t have time, he was busy! He could have taken 2 steps, leaned close and whispered it. But instead, those standing nearby heard it and all I could do was stand there. Another time, again after the Mass on a weekday, I waited for the deacon and said that I needed to ask a question. Again, loud voice, I’m busy and I don’t have time! Both times all I needed was 30 seconds. I can talk in shorthand. I called the church one day to ask a question and was fully expecting to have to leave a message. Instead, the priest answers and the first thing out of his mouth after hearing my voice is that he is busy and has to leave to go visit the sick. I plunged right on and asked my question anyway. He calmed down a bit, but the conversation was still short. Yet I will see him leisurely stroll with someone else (inner circle?) and have a lovely interaction. Yup, I’m not one of the movers and shakers and so it doesn’t matter if I get tossed aside or not. He realizes his errors because he makes general apologies from the pulpit. I guess some are aimed at me. But talk is cheap and I have learned not to ask for or about anything. I do make encouraging comments to him ie: great homily, etc. If I had bad news from the doctor, I couldn’t ask for prayer from these people. If I were dying in the hospital, I’d be lucky to see ANY priest, forget about getting to see my own (unless my last name was…). More likely I’d get a prayer and some hand holding from whatever minister happened to be in the hallway. Oddly, there are other times when he will stop and make eye contact, or actually treat me with respect. I think it’s because maybe at those times none of the inner circle are around and he can do what he wants. I think he’s a puppet.
Ah, don’t lower your standards now. Don’t disrespect the priest. Consider that you are in this position for a reason. There is some reason God allows you to suffer this. Don’t make it a curse- turn it to a blessing. Start with considering all the times in their lives Mary, Joseph and Jesus were out casts and outsiders. Consider the cross and MAKE THIS WORK FOR YOU not against. It’s hard but will be very fruitful. 😃
 
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katewithak:
I came from a town like this as well. Everyone grew up together and married each other and were confirmed together. So I thought this town would be the same. I was wrong. In the one I grew up in, we prayed for new people to come in. We wanted strangers, because our town was what they call a dying town. The industries had shut down and moved away and everyone was going broke. Same thing here. Dummy me, I thought they would welcome new people. But they don’t. It’s like they want the town to continue to fall apart. You know this town cannot even afford street lights? Really, really different. But they are convinced they know what they are doing. Who am I to argue in the Church or in the town?
Similar situation in a town 13 miles from here. In my other life (pre-divorce) I lived there and on a Sunday afternoon, you could lie down in the middle of Main St. and take a nap. No kidding! Frequent comments in the local paper about loyalty and shopping local. Ok, I tried. Drugstore: Do you have X? No. Will you be getting any more in? No. Can you order it for me? No. Walmart, here I come!! And the corruption runs deep and wide. Taxes are high. Where is the money going? My favorite scam: city hall charges a $200 deposit for electricity. They keep it for 10 years, no interest and it’s up to you to remember to claim it. I did. Many don’t, so the city is in the black. Every year, I marked the calendar and on the very day that marked 10 years, I called and said I want my money today . 🙂
 
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katewithak:
wacky&wonderful:
Ah, don’t lower your standards now. Don’t disrespect the priest. Consider that you are in this position for a reason. There is some reason God allows you to suffer this. Don’t make it a curse- turn it to a blessing. Start with considering all the times in their lives Mary, Joseph and Jesus were out casts and outsiders. Consider the cross and MAKE THIS WORK FOR YOU not against. It’s hard but will be very fruitful. 😃
How am I being disrespectful? They say jump and he says how high. That’s a fact, not just my opinion. No, I have been supportive and consistent in my behavior towards him and he knows that. Sadly, he cannot say the same for himself.
 
My wife and I went through this when we first started attending our church. We are both outgoing people but it took us a few months to get to know people and become involved in the church, almost a year. This was difficult for us a we are both reverts to the Catholic Church from a very evenagelical protestant church where there was home fellowship every weekend and almost something to do at the church every night.

I think most churches, clubs groups etc., have clans and clicks and it could be because of comfort level and because people just do not want to make an effort to meet other people. I almost hate to say this but it is evident even on this forum…oops! If you notice a trend, most long time posters will only reply to other long time posters. I have noticed it myself when new people post something on a specific topic, old posters will not reply or even acknowlede thier post. However a few posts down, an old poster will say the very same thing and they will get a comment. It has happened to me many times. When I first joined this forum I thought the only way to get noticed is to post something controversial and get people upset.

Back to the answer, keep showing your face at the different events at your church and you will slowly get integrated into the social fabric of the parish.
 
Back to the answer, keep showing your face at the different events at your church and you will slowly get integrated into the social fabric of the parish.

There are no events at the church. Daily Mass is it except for the priest’s ordination anniversary party last May and a Christmas/priest’s birthday party in December. If anything else is going on, they would put it in the bulletin. There could be private get togethers which I am not aware of. They are all ranchers around here, so maybe they get together for rodeo activities.
“Everybody knows” means that if you don’t know, then you’re not invited. No one is going to call you.
 
wacky&wonderful:
There are no events at the church. Daily Mass is it except for the priest’s ordination anniversary party last May and a Christmas/priest’s birthday party in December. If anything else is going on, they would put it in the bulletin. There could be private get togethers which I am not aware of. They are all ranchers around here, so maybe they get together for rodeo activities.
“Everybody knows” means that if you don’t know, then you’re not invited. No one is going to call you.
Oh, I see now…your in one of those parishes. There was a two couples in our parish who use to be like this too. Private parties, concerts, fireworks etc., I spoke up once or twice and asked why so and so were not invited then we started being not invited. It hurts real bad so I can sympathize. As long as your pastor tolerates and endorses what these people do, there is nothing you can do. In your messages you do not state if there are other parishes in your area, if there are, go there!!

Ask yourself if you would act the way they do? If the answer is no then why would you want to associate with them?
 
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mastda:
Oh, I see now…your in one of those parishes. There was a two couples in our parish who use to be like this too. Private parties, concerts, fireworks etc., I spoke up once or twice and asked why so and so were not invited then we started being not invited. It hurts real bad so I can sympathize. As long as your pastor tolerates and endorses what these people do, there is nothing you can do. In your messages you do not state if there are other parishes in your area, if there are, go there!!

Ask yourself if you would act the way they do? If the answer is no then why would you want to associate with them?
I really don’t know what goes on. They’re all related, so anything they do could be considered a family activity. Maybe they don’t get together all that often, I cannot say. They all live a stone’s throw from each other. I’ve been going to that church for 18 months now and the priest arrived about a year before that. The gossip informed me that he was always taking off and going somewhere and he didn’t socialize with them. Oh, she had a list of “concerns” and questioned me about my experiences with him. I can understand his dilemma and I do understand what makes him do most of what he does. I wish I could help. Yes, there are other parishes in my area and tomorrow morning I will be going to morning Mass somewhere else because I didn’t go today and I miss it! I cannot imagine going back to a place that has no place for me. It doesn’t make sense. I do wish them well and I just have to fight the urge to corner the priest and say TALK TO ME!!
 
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mosher:
God is giving you an opportunity to help fix a problem with Him. I would hope that you will help Him solve this problem.
I just had to write and give you an update. I just finished sending an email to the bishop’s assistant/secretary. I hadn’t planned to say anything to anyone about why I left. Afer all, who cares? Just me. Anyway, I was visitng a friend at her job and telling her about the new church that I found and that I really liked it. How different it was from the one I had just left (naming the names of the churches) and a woman who was sitting nearby joined in the conversation. She said that she had been planning to take her family, which included children, to the church that I had just left, but that a friend of hers had discouraged her. I told her that she needed to listen to her friend and to me and go somewhere else. We’ll see if I get blackballed in this town or if they come after me with a bucket of tar and some feathers. Oh well, the church that I go to now is 33 miles away. I’m only home to sleep. 😉

P.S. Are you proud of me, Mosher?
 
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