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aper1
Guest
It’s a fact of the whole Church, yet only represented by a minority. A minority sizable enough to label the entire Church homophobic and misogynist. That’s your reasoning.
Ah, I see - a secular modernist who would have us appeal to every generation’s delusion because this time they have it right, comrade. Good bye.
Beware of wolves in sheep’s clothing, brethen. This site is “rife” with them.
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phil19034
Guest
Actually, it has more bite than one would think, esp for the smaller Catholic college.AdamP88:
Unless there is substantial cash involved in the form of diocesan subsidies, that threat has a lot more bark than bite.
Money talks. Everything else walks.
There’s no cash from the dioceses, however, there is the marketing value of being “Catholic.” Some parents want their kids to go to a Catholic college. This is still pretty common in areas with big Catholic school systems. The number of kids from Catholic high schools in the Northeast, Chicago, etc who go on to attend Catholic colleges is pretty good.
Catholic colleges have a similar reputation as Catholic grade schools & high schools. Some parents swear by them.
So removing their Catholic identity will negatively impact a college some (how much, don’t know… depends on the college).
But regardless, it will at least keep everything honest.
If a college is stripped of their Catholic identity, then a potential student or parent who wants a Catholic college will know XYZ University is no longer Catholic.
Personally, if the college doesn’t want to change, that’s fine. Just stop advertising as Catholic & become nonsectarian. I mean just look at the Ivy League, all of them (except Cornell) used to be associated with Protestant religions.
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Dolphin
Guest
My catholic college is run by friars.
My college in addition to 4 masses on Sunday also has daily mass every day.
Met most of my closest friends through campus ministry, my girlfriend was the president of campus ministry and we were co-presidents of the pro-life group.
Don’t write off every catholic college until you have been to every catholic college because mine is definitely not the only one that doesn’t fit into your preconceived notions
My college in addition to 4 masses on Sunday also has daily mass every day.
Met most of my closest friends through campus ministry, my girlfriend was the president of campus ministry and we were co-presidents of the pro-life group.
Don’t write off every catholic college until you have been to every catholic college because mine is definitely not the only one that doesn’t fit into your preconceived notions
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do_justly_love_mercy
Guest
What is wrong with The Vagina Monologues? What is wrong is that a play like The Vagina Monologues is still necessary in our society. If you are interested, here is an article by Father Tim Clancy, S.J.:
The Vagina Monologues and the Catholic Jesuit Mission of Higher Education
The Vagina Monologues and the Catholic Jesuit Mission of Higher Education
www.academia.edu
Please note also that college productions of the play typically are different from year to year and from institution to institution, so unless you have seen every performance, which seems unlikely, you wouldn’t even know what’s in each one.
I think the main thing you have to understand is that the point of the play is to tell women’s stories. I don’t see how it can be wrong to describe experiences.
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Dolphin
Guest
The same people that call out these types of performances are the same people that say Law & Order SVU is anti-male propaganda… clearly it isn’t if someone watched one episode. It’s creating a dialogue about sexual assault. Same story.
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aper1
Guest
The same ones that see nothing wrong with the “Vagina Monologues” are the ones applauding this kind of article from Jesuit Georgetown University:
gppreview.com
It’s the same ideology, Marxism.
Empowering Thai Sex Workers: The Positive Effects of Decriminalizing Prostitution - Georgetown Public Policy Review
Socially, many societies are not ready to accept sex in exchange for payment. While proponents of criminal penalties to deter prostitution cite concerns with human trafficking and exploitation, decriminalization may offer better protections and working conditions for sex workers. Prostitution is...
gppreview.com
It’s the same ideology, Marxism.
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jeannetherese
Guest
Where are you getting the data sets for these charges?
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do_justly_love_mercy
Guest
It’s not clear how Marxism would be the main factor behind The Vagina Monologues and decriminalization of sex work. Obviously Marxism would have something to say about it, but I don’t think it’s the ideology driving either of these phenomena. The Vagina Monologues addresses topics as diverse as rape, pubic hair, gynecology, and menstruation. I don’t think it conceptualizes the vagina as part of a series of historical class struggles which lead inexorably to the collectivization of the means of production, distribution, and exchange. Of course, there are those who argue that socialism and feminism are inextricable, but they are usually feminists critiquing a form of socialism that is typically patriarchal and misogynistic.
As for sex work, those who argue for its decriminalization do not generally endorse prostitution as a positive lifestyle choice for women. Some do, of course, but they are very much a minority. Most people recognize that sex work is overwhelmingly a negative experience for women (and men and children). The point is to try to mitigate the damage. If women are going to do sex work out of desperation, is there a way of making it as safe as possible, taking them out of the control of pimps, protecting them from violence, and preventing, detecting, and treating STIs? It’s a similar argument to decriminalizing drugs. Nobody is seriously suggesting that shooting up heroin or snorting cocaine is a great lifestyle choice. It’s a question of mitigating the risks to addicts and taking criminals out of the supply chain.
As for sex work, those who argue for its decriminalization do not generally endorse prostitution as a positive lifestyle choice for women. Some do, of course, but they are very much a minority. Most people recognize that sex work is overwhelmingly a negative experience for women (and men and children). The point is to try to mitigate the damage. If women are going to do sex work out of desperation, is there a way of making it as safe as possible, taking them out of the control of pimps, protecting them from violence, and preventing, detecting, and treating STIs? It’s a similar argument to decriminalizing drugs. Nobody is seriously suggesting that shooting up heroin or snorting cocaine is a great lifestyle choice. It’s a question of mitigating the risks to addicts and taking criminals out of the supply chain.
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phil19034
Guest
FYI -
Almost all of them (if not all of them) have daily mass. Even most secular colleges with a Catholic Campus Ministry (aka Newman Center) have daily mass.
A better question is how often they have confession?
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phil19034
Guest
Here is the problem with The Vagina Monologues (and the like) at Catholic colleges (from my point of view).
If it’s not appropriate to be hosted in the local Catholic Parish’s hall/gym/cafeteria, then it isn’t appropriate to be officially offered by the Catholic college itself or by one of the registered student organizations.
Now, if some individual was passing out flyers for an off-campus presentation on the sidewalk, there is little that can be done.
But a Catholic college should not allow anything on-campus that would be considered scandalous at a local parish.
To me, if it doesn’t pass the “parish hall test” then a Catholic college should not allow it on campus.
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jeannetherese
Guest
If we replace women with teen-agers, twelve year olds, runaways, children? Desperation is a relative term. Why are we trying to prop up something we acknowledge is bad with arguments concerning desperation?
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do_justly_love_mercy
Guest
I’m not convinced that The Vagina Monologues is necessarily inappropriate for a parish venue. I think the main question would be whether enough people would turn up to make it worthwhile. I guess it would also depend on exactly what monologues were performed and how it was done. As I said before, many (most?) performances no longer simply follow the original text. There are performances that include only parts of the original text or that even are made up of a set of brand new monologues. The original show is also pretty old now. Parts of it have been rightly altered or can be omitted or replaced.
I think what it comes down to is whether you think it’s tolerable for women to talk about their vaginas in public. The fact that women still feel the need to do so rather goes to show why it is still necessary. Personally, I don’t see a problem with drawing attention to issues like obstetric fistula, FGM, gynecological cancer, rape, women’s experiences of sex (which is still widely misunderstood, including by some people of this forum), and the ways in which many women still perceive their genitals (not only the vagina per se) as ugly, shameful, or embarrassing. Indeed, you would not believe how many people (including many women) do not even understand exactly what the vagina is and what it is not. Many people, for example, think that the vagina includes the external genitalia and/or think that urine is excreted through the vagina.
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Limoncello4021
Guest
The book The Dying of the Light traces the trajectory of many formerly religious American colleges and universities, not just Catholic, that over the years have thoroughly secularized. It is a typical trajectory when schools realize they cannot operate without government funding and in times when enrollment is low. The truth is that you can find a thriving and vibrant Catholicism on many secular campuses if students are prepared to look. Why should parents spend so much more money–thousands and thousands more?–to send their children to a so-called “Catholic” college when the Catholicism there can often be much weaker–and full of anti-Catholicism as a backlash from faculty and staff–than it might be at a public institution. The days when one could assume a child would get an orthodox Catholic education just because a college calls itself “Catholic” are long over.
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Nigel7
Guest
Quit putting post-modernist neo-Marxist progressives in charge of these institutions, both of the ordained variety, and otherwise.
Problem solved.
Problem solved.
blackforest
Well-known member
I agree. I’ve honestly found that the Catholicity of a campus is determined by its extracurricular presence. If there’s a vibrant Catholic life outside of class, students take that influence into the classroom, (often challenging their professors in the process), back home over spring and summer breaks, and into the workforce after graduation. Dioceses should focus their money and support on Newman Centers and other campus ministry programs on Catholic and secular colleges alike.
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McDale721
Guest
Did you read my follow up? Yes you go to a good school. It’s not the norm. The OP question is what to do about bad schools. The answer is don’t go to them. Consider a secular school with a good Catholic campus ministry. Don’t get hung up on needing to go to a Catholic school.
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annem
Guest
The Cardinal Newman Society publishes a list of faithful Catholic colleges. Every parent should read the list before deciding which college to send their child to. Here is the list, which is updated every year:
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phil19034
Guest
Well, as a man, I think it is intolerable for men to talk about their penises in public (esp on Church property). So why would I think it’s OK for women to discuss their vaginas if I think it’s wrong for men to discuss their penises?
While education is always good, there is such a thing as proper venue & format.
The Vagina Monologues are advertised as if they are a play. When you see the advertisements, they don’t present themselves a health lecture. They present themselves as a play by radical feminists.
Furthermore, they are rarely a health lecture by a certified OB GYN.
When serious topics are treated with frivolousness, in my opinion, the seriousness is often lost to one degree or another.
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phil19034
Guest
I also strongly support the National Catholic Register’s college list too (which they update annually too)
https://www.ncregister.com/college-guide
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