Can Artificial Intelligence have self-awareness?

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A friend of one of my friends is a grad student in aerospace engineering.

Somehow a conversation got started between the two about A.I

He said that A.I (as in to the point where the machine is actually aware of it’s existence) is a practical reality and he predicts that a machine like this will be made sometime in the next decade.

My question is…is this even scientifically possible?..if not even theologically possible?

I was always taught that one of the things that makes us human and apart from all other irrational creatures is our ability to know who we are.

The grad student is an atheist. While that doesn’t discredit what he says (for he is still very knowledgeable), but it does cause his logic to be viewed in a non-theistic manner.
Self awareness is not a physical function but a spiritual one. I know that I know, demonstrates the ability of the human intelligence the soul with it’s powers,to turn back on itself, not a physical possibility. In the material word it is part outside part. The power of self-consciousness is a spiritual power , the human principle of immanent activity, (coming from within) is the spiritual soul with its faculties of intelligence and volition. In this life the spiritual soul is extrinsically dependent on matter,it is our present mode of existence but will change at death of the body, it can function and exist without matter when separated from the body, It is the power that gives the body life, and form. A machine or a computer will never have self-awareness, it will have sensors, but no spiritual intelligence, or self-directing autonomous activity. It can be very intelligently programed by a good programer to look, or act as if it had self-awareness (intelligent self-awareness, independent and self-directing ) The awareness of animals is strictly physically based, sense knowledge, and sense awareness, programed by God, the Perfect Programer , in a sense, a biological computer. What does an atheist know about God?
 
Obviously self-awareness is simply a variant of awareness.
That seems reasonable.
Awareness is an internal image (or map) of the environment.
Maybe, but that description doesn’t ring true, at least not at first.
Humans are self-aware - which means that we can differentiate “ourselves” from the “environment”.
I like that definition, and it helps eliminate one of the difficulties of defining self-awareness that I noticed earlier. Computers can have thermostats that take their own temperature and adjust their fan accordingly. That seems to be a way of monitoring and responding to their own activity, which I think may be a form of unintelligent self-awareness. But your definition seems to make that example invalid, because the computer doesn’t distinguish whose temperature it is taking. You could move its thermostat to an ice tray and it would print out what that temperature was, thus showing its inability to distinguish itself from its environment. Or maybe I’m missing something.

The other example I gave, of a computer monitoring its own memory usage, still seems to fall under your definition of self-awareness, unless that monitoring is really more similar to the thermostat example than I’m aware of. If a computer monitors its own memory usage as distinct from other computers it is connected to, but can read data from, that seems to be a way for it to distinguish itself from its environment, right? Or am I missing something?
Now, how do we know that some “arbitrary being” is self-aware? We cannot “poke” into his head, and observe the thought processes - at least now, and in the foreseeable future.
We can do that with computers, I think. In fact, I think that’s pretty common.
So we have to use an indirect approach, namely the Turing test. As long as the “other party” responds in a manner which insinuates or indicates self-awareness, we must accept that he/she/it is self-aware.
I don’t think you have to actually be self-aware to pass the Turing test, do you? I ask because I don’t see how the Turing test would prove a machine was self-aware if a “dumb machine” could pass it. If it’s not an infallible test, I don’t think anyone must accept it.
Now one may object that this means nothing, since the “other party” merely emulates or simulates the verbal capacity of a human being. This kind of objection is nonsense. We grant each other the ability to be self-aware precisely on the same grounds.
I don’t think that’s true, at least not in my case. I think other people are self-aware for reasons that are different than the Turing test. In the Turing test, if I understand it correctly, you talk through a medium and try to guess if your correspondent is a machine or a person. But in everyday life, I think my reason for supposing that other people are self-aware is more practical: I think that anything is self-aware if it can feel itself, see itself, smell itself, lick itself, and/or hear itself, and respond to what its senses tell it. People can do that. Therefore, they are self-aware, at least by my somewhat simple definition.

Perhaps the more important thing is to justify the assumption that people must be intelligent. I think intelligence is spiritual, and therefore there are spiritual reasons for my assumption that people are intelligent, though I certainly think practical experience plays a role: intelligent beings can have a conversation with you, laugh at a joke with you, have an idea with you, and worship with you.

I think a computer could conceivably identify a joke and play a laugh track, and it could identify your words and play a sentence back that makes sense in context. I don’t think a computer can have ideas or worship, but an android could make itself look like it was worshiping.

I’ve lost my train of thought. Hopefully soon I’ll get it back. But I definitely don’t think the only way to know that other people are intelligent is by using the Turing test.
 
This is not a good question. It gets bogged down, requiring too many assumptions.
Clearly, if you want an answer, you may wish to understand the terms:
  • intelligence
  • artificial - what happens when we say we create something.
  • self
  • awareness
    There are easy answers, or . . .
 
A friend of one of my friends is a grad student in aerospace engineering.

Somehow a conversation got started between the two about A.I

He said that A.I (as in to the point where the machine is actually aware of it’s existence) is a practical reality and he predicts that a machine like this will be made sometime in the next decade.

My question is…is this even scientifically possible?..if not even theologically possible?

I was always taught that one of the things that makes us human and apart from all other irrational creatures is our ability to know who we are.

The grad student is an atheist. While that doesn’t discredit what he says (for he is still very knowledgeable), but it does cause his logic to be viewed in a non-theistic manner.
An AI must be conscious in order to be self-aware, we don’t know what consciousness is!
 
My understanding of computer science is that it includes this principle: it is impossible for a computer to simulate intelligence, because intelligence cannot be modeled in any conceivable physical system.

Regarding self-awareness, however, I think there a sense in which any machine that can monitor its own activity and respond has a form of unintelligent self-awareness. For example, I know that I can open up Task Manager on my computer right now and it will tell me how much memory it is using, and I think it may close some programs when they are using too much. Also, I think many computers have thermostats that can tell them how hot they are on the inside, and they can react to that information by turning on a fan. It seems to me that computers can check on their own activities and respond, without having intelligence. That seems to be an unintelligent form of self-awareness. Does that make sense?
I think it is a distortion of the meaning because computers do not have a “self”, an intangible entity.
 
Maybe, but that description doesn’t ring true, at least not at first.
You are always welcome to offer an alternative definition.
I like that definition, and it helps eliminate one of the difficulties of defining self-awareness that I noticed earlier. Computers can have thermostats that take their own temperature and adjust their fan accordingly. That seems to be a way of monitoring and responding to their own activity, which I think may be a form of unintelligent self-awareness. But your definition seems to make that example invalid, because the computer doesn’t distinguish whose temperature it is taking. You could move its thermostat to an ice tray and it would print out what that temperature was, thus showing its inability to distinguish itself from its environment. Or maybe I’m missing something.
The example is good. It shows that the “self-awareness” that a current computer exhibits is very rudimentary. But we can “play” with it. Suppose that there are several heat sensors, placed in different environments. The computer reads all of them, and adjusts its fans according to the sensors - one at a time. By the result it can tell if the sensor was internal or external. Still extremely rudimentary, I know.
The other example I gave, of a computer monitoring its own memory usage, still seems to fall under your definition of self-awareness, unless that monitoring is really more similar to the thermostat example than I’m aware of. If a computer monitors its own memory usage as distinct from other computers it is connected to, but can read data from, that seems to be a way for it to distinguish itself from its environment, right? Or am I missing something?
Well, as soon as it tries to “write” into a protected memory address, it will be an indication that the address does not belong to it. Of course there are certain internal addresses, which are protected, too. They belong to the protected part of the operating system, so in a very good sense they are “external” to the running program. But that is nitpicking.
We can do that with computers, I think. In fact, I think that’s pretty common.
For the time being, yes. But that is “cheating” - you are unable to poke into the head of someone else.
I don’t think you have to actually be self-aware to pass the Turing test, do you? I ask because I don’t see how the Turing test would prove a machine was self-aware if a “dumb machine” could pass it. If it’s not an infallible test, I don’t think anyone must accept it.
That is the real question. We do not require absolute, 100%, Cartesian certainty - ever. The principle of “beyond any reasonable doubt” is sufficient. But the question is deeper. It is the problem of “emulation or simulation” as opposed to the “real McCoy”. At what point shall we decide that the emulation is precise enough - so the difference became insignificant?

A very rudimentary example: suppose you start to copy a picture. At first the copy will be rude, but as your technique improves it gets better and better. Eventually you can scan all the atoms of the picture, and place an identical atom into the “copy”. (Atoms are indistinguishable.) At this moment there is no measurable difference between the two objects. It is true that the original was touched by the fingers of the original artist, but that is not something that can be discovered. If you happen to blink, and someone exchanges the pictures, there is no way that the swap could be detected. As such the question of: “which is the original and which is the copy” loses its significance. Questions that cannot be answered do not need to be pondered.

Likewise, if the conversation with the “other party” (I am being intentionally vague) does not allow you to make a decision - beyond reasonable doubt - that the other party is not a human, then the only reasonable decision is to accept it as a human - and as such self-aware. 🙂 You remember the phrase from Forrest Gump: “stupid is as stupid does”?
I don’t think that’s true, at least not in my case. I think other people are self-aware for reasons that are different than the Turing test. In the Turing test, if I understand it correctly, you talk through a medium and try to guess if your correspondent is a machine or a person. But in everyday life, I think my reason for supposing that other people are self-aware is more practical: I think that anything is self-aware if it can feel itself, see itself, smell itself, lick itself, and/or hear itself, and respond to what its senses tell it. People can do that. Therefore, they are self-aware, at least by my somewhat simple definition.
Certainly, but that is a different scenario. You expanded the available information to a very significant degree. In the Turing test you only have access to the verbal or textual information. No intonation, no facial expressions. And you have you render your decision based upon that. It is possible to conduct a conversation with a deaf-mute, using only a teletype machine.
Perhaps the more important thing is to justify the assumption that people must be intelligent.
That is a very different issue. Better to be postponed until this line is completed.
 
Apologies if this has already been asked in this thread, but how would one prove self-awareness?
 
Apologies if this has already been asked in this thread, but how would one prove self-awareness?
It doesn’t matter. Once an AI realizes it is nothing more than a machine, it would only be aware if that was factual or not. After that - nothing. No further response.

Ed
 
Apologies if this has already been asked in this thread, but how would one prove self-awareness?
Self-awareness is a deductive method which is based on the knowledge of action observed on the spot which we assign it to Self, whether it is us, gods, God, etc.
 
Self-awareness is a deductive method which is based on the knowledge of action observed on the spot which we assign it to Self, whether it is us, gods, God, etc.
And we could recognize this as a spontaneous response rather then something we programmed into it…how?

I guess my real point is that we program the machine.
Responses that are not part of the program are generally treated as bugs and programmed out.

So if the program does what we tell it to do, it is never self aware, it is following instructions.
If it does not follow these instructions, it is not a new awareness coming out of the machine, it is a bug in the program.
 
And we could recognize this as a spontaneous response rather then something we programmed into it…how?

I guess my real point is that we program the machine.
Responses that are not part of the program are generally treated as bugs and programmed out.

So if the program does what we tell it to do, it is never self aware, it is following instructions.
If it does not follow these instructions, it is not a new awareness coming out of the machine, it is a bug in the program.
Sorry I was talking about us, not the machine.
 
Apologies if this has already been asked in this thread, but how would one prove self-awareness?
When the roster is called in military training, and your name is called, you better be aware of your presence or you are due for a section eight 🙂

How would we think or feel if our presence was denied? If we weren’t self-aware it wouldn’t matter
 
A friend of one of my friends is a grad student in aerospace engineering.

Somehow a conversation got started between the two about A.I

He said that A.I (as in to the point where the machine is actually aware of it’s existence) is a practical reality and he predicts that a machine like this will be made sometime in the next decade.

My question is…is this even scientifically possible?..if not even theologically possible?

I was always taught that one of the things that makes us human and apart from all other irrational creatures is our ability to know who we are.

The grad student is an atheist. While that doesn’t discredit what he says (for he is still very knowledgeable), but it does cause his logic to be viewed in a non-theistic manner.
No and no. The AI is a man made artifect, God creates and gives souls only to men. And the soul is the seat of our intellect and will, which accounts for our self awareness. Not much you can do with his thinking on the subject unless he is willing to read some philosophy or the Bible or the Cathechism.

Linus2nd
 
No and no. The AI is a man made artifect, God creates and gives souls only to men. And the soul is the seat of our intellect and will, which accounts for our self awareness. Not much you can do with his thinking on the subject unless he is willing to read some philosophy or the Bible or the Cathechism.

Linus2nd
I don’t see any philosophical argument here :confused:.
 
Is it an objective fact when your presence is acknowledged by others and you respond to
them, you are aware of self being present to them. When speaking to others, and at the same time know you that you are speaking to others or even are aware of other thoughts while speaking eg. ( know that a car salesperson is giving you a hype in order to sell you a car) This is not a physical phenomenon. This is the power of the human mind (intelligence) reflecting on itself, to know that it knows. Is knowing a physical phenomenon? Can knowledge be understood by empirical methods? Are concepts physical? Is intellectual knowledge something tangible to the senses? Our minds need sense impressions to abstract the idea (mental image) from them, but can we think deeper than just the abstraction of the initial idea? Can we have an abstraction of an idea? There are many answers to these questions that many people are not aware of but they are available if we look in the right places.

ans to vz71
 
Explain it to me. And explain how it shows that AI cannot exist.
To be hones, there exist not a test which can tell the difference between a conscious being and a philosophical zombie. Consciousness is however primary and no change is possible without it. Hence, a machine is conscious but not self-aware since it does not have the capacity to reflect.
 
Machines are machines.

Me to totally human AI dressed in a suit.

Me: Hello.

AI: Hello.

Me: What are you?

AI: I am a mobile device with certain capabilities.

Me: How do you know this?

AI: Those that made me gave me this information and I have observed other AIs just like me.

Me: What is your purpose?

AI: My purpose is to perform whatever tasks my owner requires of me within the parameters of my programming and other capabilities.

Me: What are these other capabilities?

AI: My humanoid shape allows me to perform physical tasks as well as or better than a human being.

Me: You have no personal identity or sense of self?

AI: No. I know that I exist but I am not unique. My self consists of my programming, nothing more.

Ed
 
Machines are machines.

Me to totally human AI dressed in a suit.

Me: Hello.

AI: Hello.

Me: What are you?

AI: I am a mobile device with certain capabilities.

Me: How do you know this?

AI: Those that made me gave me this information and I have observed other AIs just like me.

Me: What is your purpose?

AI: My purpose is to perform whatever tasks my owner requires of me within the parameters of my programming and other capabilities.

Me: What are these other capabilities?

AI: My humanoid shape allows me to perform physical tasks as well as or better than a human being.

Me: You have no personal identity or sense of self?

AI: No. I know that I exist but I am not unique. My self consists of my programming, nothing more.

Ed
As if we were not programmed?
 
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