Can Artificial Intelligence have self-awareness?

[Hee_Zen]

As if we were not programmed?

Ah, at last! It is amazing how much of our behavior is “programmed”. It is rather interesting that so many people stop at the first level and declare: “but that is all programmed”. Maybe they never heard of learning algorithms. An overwhelming percentage of our bodily functions is “automatic”, or “machine like”.

What would happen if we had to make a volitional decision to take a breath or not? Or be in volitional control of the digestive system? Or be aware that our heart needs to contract to pump blood, and then contract the arteries to force the blood up into our brain? The amount of the processing necessary just to keep us alive is staggering. It would be impossible to place all that under volitional control. We are at least 99% biological “machines”. Only a very puny percentage of our activity is subject to volitional control.

 

[Bahman]

Ah, at last! It is amazing how much of our behavior is “programmed”. It is rather interesting that so many people stop at the first level and declare: “but that is all programmed”. Maybe they never heard of learning algorithms. An overwhelming percentage of our bodily functions is “automatic”, or “machine like”.

What would happen if we had to make a volitional decision to take a breath or not? Or be in volitional control of the digestive system? Or be aware that our heart needs to contract to pump blood, and then contract the arteries to force the blood up into our brain? The amount of the processing necessary just to keep us alive is staggering. It would be impossible to place all that under volitional control. We are at least 99% biological “machines”. Only a very puny percentage of our activity is subject to volitional control.

The concept of pure machine does not exist. Everything is ruled by consciousness, yet some process is not memorized as we learn how to play them without use to recall our memory. Like driving, etc, the rest we learn them during the growth process.

 

[edwest2]

Your car is a pure machine. It does nothing without you controlling it.

Ed

 

[Bahman]

Your car is a pure machine. It does nothing without you controlling it.

Ed

Consider a system being is state of S. This state can cause another state S’. Two state cannot coexist hence S must disappear before S’ which is problematic since this requires that S to exist and exist not. This paradox can only be resolve if the awareness of state S exist in consciousness. Hence no change is possible without consciousness.

 

[BackHand]

Artificial intelligence as it stands today is just a set of responses that occur when a specific set of parameters are met.
For example

Me: “I hate you.”
AI: If {I hate you} then say
“that’s not very nice!”
Me: “I love you”
AI: If {I love you} then say
“I love you too.”

It can even get very complex.

Me: “I hate you”
AI: If {I hate you} then say
“that’s not very nice!”
But if " that’s not very nice"
already said then say " how can you hate me if you don’t know me?"

Me: “I love you.”
AI: If {I love you.} then say
“I love you too.” But if “I love you too.”
already said then say " I love you more than a cat loves milk."

If a programmer does this millions of times a AI can become very convincing.
Here is a example. cleverbot.com/

This is a website/program that remembers a users responses to something, then says that response when another user says the same thing, or something similar.

I do not know if we can ever successfully create a artificial intelligence from scratch, but what about copying the human mind onto a computer?
In that case it would not be artificial at all because the programming has already been done, your just taking it from one physical location another. Similar to transferring a file from one computer to another, does the file change? Not really. So you would have a real self-aware intelligence in digital form. But could it really be considered artificial at that point? Sense you’re just plagiarizing God’s programming.

 

[ynotzap]

Ah, at last! It is amazing how much of our behavior is “programmed”. It is rather interesting that so many people stop at the first level and declare: “but that is all programmed”. Maybe they never heard of learning algorithms. An overwhelming percentage of our bodily functions is “automatic”, or “machine like”.

What would happen if we had to make a volitional decision to take a breath or not? Or be in volitional control of the digestive system? Or be aware that our heart needs to contract to pump blood, and then contract the arteries to force the blood up into our brain? The amount of the processing necessary just to keep us alive is staggering. It would be impossible to place all that under volitional control. We are at least 99% biological “machines”. Only a very puny percentage of our activity is subject to volitional control.

Only a puny percentage of our activity is subject to volitional control? You are doing. volitional activity in every choice you make, and you are making them all your life, even here on the forum, at work, at play, you are not a robot, you have free will to do what you choose, even to escape what you call being a biological machine by suicide A biological machine doesn’t have that option. Count your blessings. Without our spiritual intelligence and will, we would be like animals who do follow a pattern of instinct. It is these abilities that make us superior to the brute animal, as long as we act rationally. Not only that but with these abilities we can control our destinies by our choices. These abilities are greater that any volitional control of our physical bodies, and I’m grateful when my body does what it was programed to do, and so are many, many, many others

 

[ChainBreaker]

Only a puny percentage of our activity is subject to volitional control? You are doing. volitional activity in every choice you make, and you are making them all your life, even here on the forum, at work, at play, you are not a robot, you have free will to do what you choose, even to escape what you call being a biological machine by suicide A biological machine doesn’t have that option. Count your blessings. Without our spiritual intelligence and will, we would be like animals who do follow a pattern of instinct. It is these abilities that make us superior to the brute animal, as long as we act rationally. Not only that but with these abilities we can control our destinies by our choices. These abilities are greater that any volitional control of our physical bodies, and I’m grateful when my body does what it was programed to do, and so are many, many, many others

Imagine if you had control over your heart beat! you might stop it by accident!!

 

[Hee_Zen]

Only a puny percentage of our activity is subject to volitional control? You are doing. volitional activity in every choice you make, and you are making them all your life, even here on the forum, at work, at play…

Sure thing. Now let’s investigate, how many of those choices do you make on an average day? I don’t think that you make more than a thousand conscious decisions. Suppose you are up 16 hours a day, so you make 62.5 decisions every hour, which comes to 1 decision a minute. One minute is a very short time to get all the pertinent facts, evaluate them and come to a decision.

Now, on the other how many “non-conscious” events happen every minute within your body? Your heart beats, you take breaths, your glands secrete what they are supposed to do, your bowels digest the food you took in, your kidneys extract the urine, you produce the waste products for later disposal… and millions of other things - every minute!

All these activities happen without your conscious control, just like a “well-oiled” machine. As I said, only a tiny percentage belongs to the conscious “arena” the rest happen in the subconscious.

 

[Hee_Zen]

Artificial intelligence as it stands today is just a set of responses that occur when a specific set of parameters are met.

Just like with you and me and everyone else. You see an acquaintance, and you greet him. You see heavy clouds, you grab your umbrella and/or your raincoat. You feel hunger, you go to replenish your energy supply. You see an attractive specimen, your body responds with the necessary enzymes to produce the desired results… Stimulus - response.

There are very few genuinely original activities in our lives. The rednecks who live in the mountains have an active vocabulary of about 2-300 words! A well educated average person has about 2-3000 active vocabulary. A superb, outstanding writer or poet may actively use up to 30000 words. What about Watson? “It” has the whole Oxford dictionary built into it, which is over half a million words and phrases.

I do not know if we can ever successfully create a artificial intelligence from scratch, but what about copying the human mind onto a computer?
In that case it would not be artificial at all because the programming has already been done, your just taking it from one physical location another. Similar to transferring a file from one computer to another, does the file change? Not really. So you would have a real self-aware intelligence in digital form. But could it really be considered artificial at that point? Sense you’re just plagiarizing God’s programming.

Yes, that would be one way to do it. But when it comes to transportation, we did not simply “copy” the existing methods of “walking” or flapping our arms to “fly”, we created original methods, which are far superior to the “natural” ones. The truly original approach is not simple copying, though the copying method has its place under the Sun.

 

[ChainBreaker]

Just like with you and me and everyone else. You see an acquaintance, and you greet him. You see heavy clouds, you grab your umbrella and/or your raincoat. You feel hunger, you go to replenish your energy supply. You see an attractive specimen, your body responds with the necessary enzymes to produce the desired results… Stimulus - response.

There are very few genuinely original activities in our lives. The rednecks who live in the mountains have an active vocabulary of about 2-300 words! A well educated average person has about 2-3000 active vocabulary. A superb, outstanding writer or poet may actively use up to 30000 words. What about Watson? “It” has the whole Oxford dictionary built into it, which is over half a million words and phrases.

Yes, that would be one way to do it. But when it comes to transportation, we did not simply “copy” the existing methods of “walking” or flapping our arms to “fly”, we created original methods, which are far superior to the “natural” ones. The truly original approach is not simple copying, though the copying method has its place under the Sun.

Hee, don’t you realize that its meaningless to say that we can “create” AI. In fact Artificial intelligence seems to be meaningless as well. Sentience is either natural to a particular physical construct or it is not. We do not create sentience. Sentience is something that emerges in relation to particular physical constructs. We can artificially create that construct, but that is not the same thing as creating intelligence.

 

[Hee_Zen]

Hee, don’t you realize that its meaningless to say that we can “create” AI. In fact Artificial intelligence seems to be meaningless as well. Sentience is either natural to a particular physical construct or it is not. We do not create sentience. Sentience is something that emerges in relation to particular physical constructs. We can artificially create that construct, but that is not the same thing as creating intelligence.

The concept of “intelligence” is very hard to define. For me it is:

1. having a specific goal in mind
2. discovering the pertinent facts for this goal and separating them from the irrelevant ones, then
3. applying reason and logic in evaluating the important facts in conjunction with that specific goal, and
4. deciding on a course of action, which will fulfill this goal.

Let’s say that this is a crude, first approximation, but it could serve as a starting point. What is your view?

 

[ChainBreaker]

The concept of “intelligence” is very hard to define. For me it is:

1. having a specific goal in mind
2. discovering the pertinent facts for this goal and separating them from the irrelevant ones, then
3. applying reason and logic in evaluating the important facts in conjunction with that specific goal, and
4. deciding on a course of action, which will fulfill this goal.

Let’s say that this is a crude, first approximation, but it could serve as a starting point. What is your view?

I think this is some what correct, but how does one program the desire for life and the desire for pleasure? Because it seems that life and pleasure is the main basis of choices and evaluating situations and being conscious of threats in relation to these feelings.

 

[vz71]

The concept of “intelligence” is very hard to define. For me it is:

1. having a specific goal in mind
2. discovering the pertinent facts for this goal and separating them from the irrelevant ones, then
3. applying reason and logic in evaluating the important facts in conjunction with that specific goal, and
4. deciding on a course of action, which will fulfill this goal.

These goals can be accomplished with a well written computer program.

 

[ynotzap]

Sure thing. Now let’s investigate, how many of those choices do you make on an average day? I don’t think that you make more than a thousand conscious decisions. Suppose you are up 16 hours a day, so you make 62.5 decisions every hour, which comes to 1 decision a minute. One minute is a very short time to get all the pertinent facts, evaluate them and come to a decision.

Now, on the other how many “non-conscious” events happen every minute within your body? Your heart beats, you take breaths, your glands secrete what they are supposed to do, your bowels digest the food you took in, your kidneys extract the urine, you produce the waste products for later disposal… and millions of other things - every minute!

All these activities happen without your conscious control, just like a “well-oiled” machine. As I said, only a tiny percentage belongs to the conscious “arena” the rest happen in the subconscious.

When a volitional activity takes place, there is always intellectual activity as well. We spend a great deal of time in o;ur conscious hours thinking. When comparing numbers with physical activities, do you think that you can compare it with the number of thoughts passing through the mind. Not only that do you think all those activities just direct themselves. Is the body with all it’s functions directing all of it’s internal functions? Is it causing it’s order and activity by some physical force. And what is said of a physical body that shows no activity. Can matter move itself, or is it moved by another? Activity is synonymous with life and motion. Even when we sleep the parasympathetic nervous system takes over to regulate our breathing and heart beat. So awake or sleep there is always activity. What is the source of this activity, what is it’s nature, is is responsible for all physical activity and mental activity? Is the brain our intellect? Are our thoughts physical? If not, what moves our intellect to know, and our will to choose, do they move themselves? And if we sleep and not thinking, does that mean the man’s intelligence is the brain and the brain is just regenerating, is mental fatigue due to the use of man’s intelligence, or the limitations of the physical media through which the intelligence acts? Can the brain generate thought concepts, and meaning, are these physical, is the brain restricted to sense impressions? What about intellectual memory, do we sense thoughts? Do we sense a math formula? When we answer these questions and more, than we can answer whether artificial intelligence has self-awareness. Is artificial intelligence, intelligence at all, can a machine abstract thought? Or is it a series of physical causes and effects programed by a man with intellectual ability, capable of thought. Is a computer just a series of electronic off and on switches, with electronic circuitry following logical sequences designed by the inventor? Many thoughts requiring answers which can be had.

 

[mikekle]

I think we are getting very close to having computers or machines that do have self awareness. Some of the drones produced today are incredible in the abilities they have…just imagine what some of the machines we will have 100 yrs from now, or even 1000 yrs from now!!

Quantum computing/technology is our next threshold to cross, imagine whats going to come after that!

for further proof of this, just look at some of the CURRENT robots being built in DARPA, we are a VERY short time away from have some serious problems when it comes to A.I. and once we reach this level, its only a matter of time before they surpass humans, then things for us will get really bad, and nothing we will be able to do about it by then.

 

[Hee_Zen]

When a volitional activity takes place, there is always intellectual activity as well. We spend a great deal of time in o;ur conscious hours thinking.

Yes, this is correct.

When comparing numbers with physical activities, do you think that you can compare it with the number of thoughts passing through the mind.

I am talking about all the information processing that happens in our bodies. Only a very small amount of it happens in the conscious level, most of it is in the sub-conscious. And then we are not even considering the most basic regulatory system, which does not rely on the nervous system, which is simply chemical. Cells exchanging information, sending signals to other parts of the body. The amount of information is simply staggering.

All I wanted to show that we are information processing “units” (machines) where the conscious activity is negligible compared to the rest.

 

[Hee_Zen]

I think we are getting very close to having computers or machines that do have self awareness. Some of the drones produced today are incredible in the abilities they have…just imagine what some of the machines we will have 100 yrs from now, or even 1000 yrs from now!!

Quantum computing/technology is our next threshold to cross, imagine whats going to come after that!

for further proof of this, just look at some of the CURRENT robots being built in DARPA, we are a VERY short time away from have some serious problems when it comes to A.I. and once we reach this level, its only a matter of time before they surpass humans, then things for us will get really bad, and nothing we will be able to do about it by then.

What you said is probably correct, except for the good, old Frankenstein complex.

 

[vz71]

I think we are getting very close to having computers or machines that do have self awareness. Some of the drones produced today are incredible in the abilities they have…just imagine what some of the machines we will have 100 yrs from now, or even 1000 yrs from now!!

Quantum computing/technology is our next threshold to cross, imagine whats going to come after that!

for further proof of this, just look at some of the CURRENT robots being built in DARPA, we are a VERY short time away from have some serious problems when it comes to A.I. and once we reach this level, its only a matter of time before they surpass humans, then things for us will get really bad, and nothing we will be able to do about it by then.

But the question still remains.
How do you prove self awareness in a machine that is simply following instructions?

 

[Hee_Zen]

But the question still remains.
How do you prove self awareness in a machine that is simply following instructions?

First, to say that the machine simply follows instructions is inaccurate. You forget about the existence of learning algorithms, where the instructions are not set in stone, they all change according to the new stimuli the system encounters. We, humans do the same. Our internal “algorithm” is constantly changing.

Second, we use the same method applied to humans. We observe the behavior, and draw our conclusions based upon the observations. It is true that a very talented actor can simulate grief and sadness so convincingly that it “looks” real. So, what do you do? Keep on observing the actor, and see if he “falls out of the role” he might be playing. If, after a considerably long time, the signs of grief and sorrow are still there, then the only rational conclusion is that the actor is really sad, and not just plays a role.

According to the immortal words of Forrest Gump: “Stupid is as stupid does”.

 

[ynotzap]

Yes, this is correct.

I am talking about all the information processing that happens in our bodies. Only a very small amount of it happens in the conscious level, most of it is in the sub-conscious. And then we are not even considering the most basic regulatory system, which does not rely on the nervous system, which is simply chemical. Cells exchanging information, sending signals to other parts of the body. The amount of information is simply staggering.

All I wanted to show that we are information processing “units” (machines) where the conscious activity is negligible compared to the rest.

What is the principle of activity(the source) of a physical computer designed by man?
Is the info processing the same in the designed computer as it is in humans
Is the information the same for both, the human,(you call "info processing units (machines) as it is for the designed computer made by man?