Can ashes be scattered or separated

[Spencerian]

I had never thought of this till recently. But I have had family die at different times while I have been deployed. I hadn’t gone to see any of the graves untill a couple weeks ago when we buried my grandmother. My sister lost her son when he was 18, and his grave is in the same area. Needless to say, I didn’t like seeing all the grief. Then my family went to other graves revisiting old grief from past losses. Those who mourn will be comforted, but I see the mourning return when they visit graves. It made me contemplate not having a grave. No place for people to mourn over. I don’t want anybody revisiting old losses.

How do I reconcile this with the requirements listed in the thread.

We are Catholic. Although we die in the flesh, we are alive, always, in the glory of Christ. A grave is not only a testament to life that tells others, “I was here,” but, amidst some mourning, many people find visits to a grave cathartic, even comforting.

Remember that a human being was designed as flesh and spirit, forever bound until original sin brought death, which caused an unnatural separation of the two. To see a grave and to ground yourself (and help others ground themselves) in the Catholic faith means that, eventually, the grave you stand over, the ashes you see in the urn, even a body missing in time and space will become empty, and your body will reunite to your spirit to be glorified in Christ.

In other words, it’s joy you can find at a grave, too. It need not be morbid.

 

[kotim]

You have to ask yourself just one question

Do you believe that Christ will deny you entry to heaven based on your ashes being scattered upon the Ocean.

Remember, many of these things are/were written not becasue it means no salvation etc, they were written to combat heresies and the like.

It is like St Paul and eating anything you want, so long as you understand what your doing, you can eat meat sacrificed to idols etc.

Lets see, the Churchs rules used to not let suicide victims be buried upon sacred ground etc, why because they beleived that people who deliberatly killed themselves basically would possibly/probably not be saved. Well lo and behold we find out that people can be so delusional that they know not what they do and naturally of course the result is suicide and the Chruch no longer denies those people proper burials and the like.

Be careful what millstones we place around our necks

 

[whipp711]

Are some saying that God would be unable to pull together every electron and protein that was our body together at the appointed time?

Bodies and/or ashes are subject to the test of time, underground elements. We become dust, and that dust can migrate. I won’t go into gruesome details, but everyone understands. That’s even with so called seal crypts and coffins.

I’m betting the Church changes it’s stance in time. Maybe a 100 or 500 years, but eventually. We’ll run out of property that can be blessed and become holy ground. Sounds improbable, but a possibility.

The wife and I plan on cremation. Our ashes will be combined and scattered on God’s green earth and water. If worthy, God will make us whole and welcomed. I, for one, believe he can do it.

 

[only1truth]

We are Catholic. Although we die in the flesh, we are alive, always, in the glory of Christ. A grave is not only a testament to life that tells others, “I was here,” but, amidst some mourning, many people find visits to a grave cathartic, even comforting.

Remember that a human being was designed as flesh and spirit, forever bound until original sin brought death, which caused an unnatural separation of the two. To see a grave and to ground yourself (and help others ground themselves) in the Catholic faith means that, eventually, the grave you stand over, the ashes you see in the urn, even a body missing in time and space will become empty, and your body will reunite to your spirit to be glorified in Christ.

In other words, it’s joy you can find at a grave, too. It need not be morbid.

Thanks

That helps.

God Bless

 

[abcdxyz]

I am currently considering this question.

There are cremation urns which are biodegradable and can be buried or released in the sea. If buried, they disintegrate in several months and leave the ashes together, buried in the earth. If released at sea or other body of water, they sink to the bottom and then disintegrate within several hours, again leaving the ashes together on the sea floor.

Is this acceptable as a respectful disposition of cremated remains?

 

[xixxvmcm85]

The difference in scattering and the removal of relics is that, after being scattered, the person’s body cannot be respected (just as you would in visiting a gravesite), while a relic (a small part of a body or the complete remains of the person, buried or cremated) are always available for veneration.

In other words, if a person’s ashes were scattered on a beach, the body doesn’t have a focal point one can visit. Every bit of the body is lost among the sands and the sea.

If we have a body (even a tiny bit of it), and give it the respect a body is due, then we are able to pay our respects. A relic is a focal point, but it comes from the larger focus of the body where it is entombed.

Then there should be no problem with the cremating of a body and subsequent splitting of the ashes among the survivors so that parts of the ashes can be buried in separate places so that all the parts can be respected by the survivors who live in different parts of the world?

Somehow I don’t think the Church would go along with that.

Of all the material I’ve read on the subject the only justification the Church seems to give is that She finds the scattering of ashes disrespectful, which is an inherently subjective, and culturally loaded word. While it is her prerogative to determine norms, including but not limited to Christian burial, I wouldn’t be surprised if She someday allows cremation and scattering due to changes in culture.

 

[xixxvmcm85]

Are some saying that God would be unable to pull together every electron and protein that was our body together at the appointed time?

Bodies and/or ashes are subject to the test of time, underground elements. We become dust, and that dust can migrate. I won’t go into gruesome details, but everyone understands. That’s even with so called seal crypts and coffins.

I’m betting the Church changes it’s stance in time. Maybe a 100 or 500 years, but eventually. We’ll run out of property that can be blessed and become holy ground. Sounds improbable, but a possibility.

The wife and I plan on cremation. Our ashes will be combined and scattered on God’s green earth and water. If worthy, God will make us whole and welcomed. I, for one, believe he can do it.

I would highly recommend against this. While I agree that the Church’s dictates concerning cremation are matters of discipline and not doctrine and so are not immune to later revision, we as Catholics are still obligated to do as She instructs no matter how impractical or imprudent we personally might find the practices.

 

[Corki]

I am currently considering this question.

There are cremation urns which are biodegradable and can be buried or released in the sea. If buried, they disintegrate in several months and leave the ashes together, buried in the earth. If released at sea or other body of water, they sink to the bottom and then disintegrate within several hours, again leaving the ashes together on the sea floor.

Is this acceptable as a respectful disposition of cremated remains?

I believe either would be fine. It is the treatment of the deceased that most concerns the Church.

The first option (biodegradable urn, burried) would ultimately be the same as being burried in a wooden coffin but with a shorter time line.

The second option (biodegradable, at sea) doesn’t seem to be much different than a traditional burial at sea which I believe is approved.

 

[abcdxyz]

Of all the material I’ve read on the subject the only justification the Church seems to give is that She finds the scattering of ashes disrespectful, which is an inherently subjective, and culturally loaded word. While it is her prerogative to determine norms, including but not limited to Christian burial, I wouldn’t be surprised if She someday allows cremation and scattering due to changes in culture.

I agree with this.

 

[whipp711]

I would highly recommend against this. While I agree that the Church’s dictates concerning cremation are matters of discipline and not doctrine and so are not immune to later revision, we as Catholics are still obligated to do as She instructs no matter how impractical or imprudent we personally might find the practices.

I’m still not onboard with this matter of discipline and the Church’s edict. Legitimate debate on debateable matters should be heard by the Church. No disrespect meant.

Let’s get to a hypothetical. As I witnessed, a fellow soldier got vaporized by a bomb blast in Nam. Nothing, I mean nothing was found of him. Are we saying God cannot bring him back together for the afterlife (if he so deserved)? I understand that a Catholic funeral could be held for him, since the death and scattering of his body was not his intent.

On the matter of scattering ashes, I respectfuly submit that Rome is off on this one.

 

[abcdxyz]

On the matter of scattering ashes, I respectfully submit that Rome is off on this one.

I agree that I’m not really on board with following the Church’s teachings regardless of whether they make sense to me or not. Perhaps it’s a holdover from my previous Protestant existence.

I believe that each of us have to follow our consciences. I know that the Church says that the individual must follow his or her conscience, even when it conflicts with Church teaching, but I suspect that the unspoken assumption is that if the individual is properly instructed, then the individual’s conscience will always agree with Church teaching.

Simply burying someone instead of having them cremated and scattering their ashes does not guarantee a “respectful disposition.” All the people whose bones are stacked throughout the tunnels of the Paris catacombs were presumably given a “decent burial,” and look how their remains were desecrated later. Look at the Sedlec Ossuary in the Czech Republic: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedlec_Ossuary–seriously, a respectful disposition? How about the scandal at the Burr Oak Cemetery in Chicago a few years ago: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burr_Oak_Cemetery. I guess what I’m saying is that when you leave a loved one’s remains intact and bury them, there is no guarantee that they will stay buried or continue to be treated with respect. If cremated remains are laid to rest in the ground or in the ocean without a permanent container, they cannot later be desecrated.

 

[xixxvmcm85]

I’m still not onboard with this matter of discipline and the Church’s edict. Legitimate debate on debateable matters should be heard by the Church. No disrespect meant.

We can debate the rules and norms set forth by the Church all we want, in fact isn’t that what we’re doing right now? While we debate though, we must recognize Rome’s right to set such norms and as faithful Catholics we are obligated to follow them, even if we disagree with them, and this doesn’t stop with disposal of human remains. The Church has set rules regarding the way the Sacraments are administered and the way liturgies are to be celebrated. While we can have legitimate reservation about her judgment in such matters we cannot in the mean time take it upon ourselves to act contrary to it.

Let’s get to a hypothetical. As I witnessed, a fellow soldier got vaporized by a bomb blast in Nam. Nothing, I mean nothing was found of him.

The extraordinary case of an annihilated corpse doesn’t change what the Church has ruled with regards to the ordinary case of a corpse which is still in tact.

Are we saying God cannot bring him back together for the afterlife (if he so deserved)?

No, nothing of the sort. The matter at hand is showing the respect due to a corpse which as a human was dignified. The Church after all allows for cremation, just not scattering.

I understand that a Catholic funeral could be held for him, since the death and scattering of his body was not his intent.

Exactly, intent here is what matters, so you agree that a dismembered and scattered soldier isn’t comparable to a Catholic who dies in tact and wills the scattering of his remains?

On the matter of scattering ashes, I respectfuly submit that Rome is off on this one.

As I alluded to in previous posts, I don’t think the Church’s rule regarding scattering reflects common understanding today. For many people it is quite dignified to scatter the remains of a person over a scenery which held significance to that person, and I won’t be shocked when (and if) the rule changes in the future.

 

[whipp711]

For many people it is quite dignified to scatter the remains of a person over a scenery which held significance to that person, and I won’t be shocked when (and if) the rule changes in the future.

Agreed. Luckily, I have some time for Rome to change it’s mind.

 

[whipp711]

Ooops! Then again, maybe not.

 

[Dominique09]

yup…agreed…body is holy spirit… but burial is not environment friendly process…for this we can use body liquefaction process…and after that urns for ashes…can be use…

 

[karebear]

Thank you for all the responses…My answers were given…My father passed on May 16 and his wishes were to be in the ocean, and had he known as long as he was in an urn, he could have his wishes, he would not be sitting in a dark place, NICHE, as he requested to NOT be…My next question is…my sister put other ashes in with him…that of her DOG, that my dad loved…Where can I find out if that is ALLOWED…