Can assoc. pastor overrule pastor on issues at assoc. pastor's mass?

[Joannm]

In my parish, it’s a rather fascinating study in contrast. Our pastor comes out in his alb before Mass and pretty much does the meet and greet thing. He also has the flourescent lights turned on and everything is surgically bright white. He also preaches from the center aisle and makes announcements during the collection.

When my PV celebrates Mass, the lights in the body of the church are dimmed and, sometimes before the liturgy begins, he’s in front of the Tabernacle praying his Office (our Tabernacle is off the side, but still next to the sanctuary). He preaches from the ambo and defers all announcements until after the Post-Communion prayer.

They are both good men and good priests and don’t seem to interfere with each other’s liturgical styles.

That is just a difference in style, as you stated, but not “overruling” the pastor’s authority such as refusing to have the choir sing or not working with the parish sacristian. For example, in our parish, during Lent, we have decided that we will sing the Kyrie in Greek and the Agnus Dei in Latin. The pastor confirmed that decision, the choir and all the cantors are on board. Now if Father Smith decides he doesn’t like the pastor’s decision and wants to say the prayers in English, does he really have that right when the pastor’s decision is to do otherwise at ALL Sunday masses during Lent, just becasuse he doesn’t want to?

 

[benedictgal]

That is just a difference in style, as you stated, but not “overruling” the pastor’s authority such as refusing to have the choir sing or not working with the parish sacristian. For example, in our parish, during Lent, we have decided that we will sing the Kyrie in Greek and the Agnus Dei in Latin. The pastor confirmed that decision, the choir and all the cantors are on board. Now if Father Smith decides he doesn’t like the pastor’s decision and wants to say the prayers in English, does he really have that right when the pastor’s decision is to do otherwise at ALL Sunday masses during Lent, just becasuse he doesn’t want to?

I hear you. My PV made some suggestions regarding the Mass (very sound ones) and our pastor gave his ascent to them. That’s called working in tandem. However, when there are issues like not working with the sacristan or the choir, you’re right. Those need to be respected.

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

I thought some relevant canons might help (there is a chapter in the code on parishes, pastors, and parochial vicars):

Can. 519 The pastor (parochus) is the proper pastor (pastor) of the parish entrusted to him, exercising the pastoral care of the community committed to him under the authority of the diocesan bishop in whose ministry of Christ he has been called to share, so that for that same community he carries out the functions of teaching, sanctifying, and governing, also with the cooperation of other presbyters or deacons and with the assistance of lay members of the Christian faithful, according to the norm of law.

Can. 545 §1. Whenever it is necessary or opportune in order to carry out the pastoral care of a parish fittingly, one or more parochial vicars can be associated with the pastor. As co-workers with the pastor and sharers in his solicitude, they are to offer service in the pastoral ministry by common counsel and effort with the pastor and under his authority.

§2. A parochial vicar can be assigned either to assist in exercising the entire pastoral ministry for the whole parish, a determined part of the parish, or a certain group of the Christian faithful of the parish, or even to assist in fulfilling a specific ministry in different parishes together.

Can. 548 §1. The obligations and rights of a parochial vicar, besides being defined in the canons of this chapter, diocesan statutes, and the letter of the diocesan bishop, are more specifically determined in the mandate of the pastor.

§2. Unless the letter of the diocesan bishop expressly provides otherwise, a parochial vicar is obliged to assist the pastor in the entire parochial ministry by reason of office, except for the application of the Mass for the people, and to substitute for the pastor if the situation arises according to the norm of law.

§3. A parochial vicar is to report to the pastor regularly concerning proposed and existing pastoral endeavors in such a way that the pastor and the vicar or vicars, through common efforts, are able to provide for the pastoral care of the parish for which they are together responsible.

---

The code is, as is often the case, somewhat vague about the specific relationship between pastor and vicar. Some things I thought noteworthy, though:

A vicar is “under the authority” of the pastor, yet the relationship sometimes seems to be portrayed as one of consultation in order to meet the needs of the flock.

A vicar is obliged to “assist” in all ministry, but the terms of this assistance are not spelled out.

Universal law envisions particular law and even particular appointments provided more details on the rights and obligations of both pastor and vicar - which means that we have no way of knowing with certainty what the exact situation in a hypothetical parish might be.

One last point: I think we can say that there are actually broad areas in which a bishop does not have the authority to demand certain practices. For instance, I would say he can’t demand that all his priests use exclusively Eucharist Prayer II, or option C for the penitential rite, etc. If a bishop (who has more general authority and liturgical authority in his diocese than a pastor) can’t do this, then it stands to follow that a pastor probably can’t either. Now, there are situations in which decisions can be made at lower levels, so we can’t exclude the possibility a priori, but it does seem smarter to err on the side of the pastor having less authority than the bishop.

 

[John_Lilburne]

There is also a part of the GIRM which mentions the issue of what the what the Presiding Celebrant can decide, but without much detail.

From the 2002 General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM) approved for the USA, which can be accessed from romanrite.com/girm.html :
“111. Among all who are involved with regard to the rites, pastoral aspects, and music there should be harmony and diligence in the effective preparation of each liturgical celebration in accord with the Missal and other liturgical books. This should take place under the direction of the rector of the church and after the consultation with the faithful about things that directly pertain to them. The priest who presides at the celebration, however, always retains the right of arranging those things that are his own responsibility. [footnote 90: Cf. Second Vatican Ecumenical Council, Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy, Sacrosanctum Concilium, no. 22.]”

The footnote has (from vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19631204_sacrosanctum-concilium_en.html ):
“22. 1. Regulation of the sacred liturgy depends solely on the authority of the Church, that is, on the Apostolic See and, as laws may determine, on the bishop.
2. In virtue of power conceded by the law, the regulation of the liturgy within certain defined limits belongs also to various kinds of competent territorial bodies of bishops legitimately established.
3. Therefore no other person, even if he be a priest, may add, remove, or change anything in the liturgy on his own authority.”

 

[Digitonomy]

There is also a part of the GIRM which mentions the issue of what the what the Presiding Celebrant can decide, but without much detail…The priest who presides at the celebration, however, always retains the right of arranging those things that are his own responsibility.

That is quite helpful. It appears to me that the GIRM is referring to itself, in other sections where it outlines what are the duties of the presiding priest. Beyond the items listed as such in the GIRM, it seems that the pastor or bishop would have the right to meddle with the associate’s preferred conduct of the mass. But in those areas that the GIRM does list as the presiding priest’s responsibility, which I imagine include a few of my examples from the OP, the associate’s right to refuse the pastor’s suggestions is absolute (though as others have pointed out, not always wise).

Having taken a quick gander at the GIRM, I see that it doesn’t seem to be as clearly spelled-out as I’d hoped. At least in the most obvious section, paragraph 93, it merely says vaguely that the priest

stands for this reason at the head of the faithful people gathered together here and now, presides over their prayer, proclaims the message of salvation to them, associates the people with himself in the offering of sacrifice through Christ in the Holy Spirit to God the Father, gives his brothers and sisters the Bread of eternal life, and partakes of it with them. When he celebrates the Eucharist, therefore, he must serve God and the people with dignity and humility, and by his bearing and by the way he says the divine words he must convey to the faithful the living presence of Christ.

 

[cricker]

So … “let’s just say” that a certain Pastor has decided to interject a ‘posture of devotion’ during the liturgy during the season of Lent, where such posture is not normally called for .

Does the Associate have an obligation to follow this liturgical abuse when he says the Holy Mass?!? Is there anything that would support him refusing, and just following the rubrics of the Mass, proper?

 

[benedictgal]

So … “let’s just say” that a certain Pastor has decided to interject a ‘posture of devotion’ during the liturgy during the season of Lent, where such posture is not normally called for .

Does the Associate have an obligation to follow this liturgical abuse when he says the Holy Mass?!? Is there anything that would support him refusing, and just following the rubrics of the Mass, proper?

The associate pastor is not under any obligation to follow any directive of the pastor that would put him in violation of the GIRM, Redemptionis Sacramentum and the Constitution on Sacred Liturgy. He cannot be required to follow something that goes against what the Church has mandated.

 

[frommi]

I could be wrong, but if an Associate Pastor for whatever reason won’t conform with the pastoral practice of the parish…is the pastor obligated to schedule him for public masses?

 

[Digitonomy]

The associate pastor is not under any obligation to follow any directive of the pastor that would put him in violation of the GIRM, Redemptionis Sacramentum and the Constitution on Sacred Liturgy. He cannot be required to follow something that goes against what the Church has mandated.

Exactly. The question in the OP was whether a pastor could mandate this or that practice which was licit, or whether instead it is up to the associate’s discretion which instructions of the pastor he must follow. I am satisfied with John Lilburne’s discovery of the passage from the GIRM that seems to limit the presiding priest’s discretion to those things which are specifically his responsibility. For instance the homily:

1. The Homily should ordinarily be given by the priest celebrant himself. He may entrust it to a concelebrating priest or occasionally, according to circumstances, to the deacon, but never to a lay person. In particular cases and for a just cause, the homily may even be given by a Bishop or a priest who is present at the celebration but cannot concelebrate.

So it appears that if the pastor or even the bishop demands to make a brief statement as all or part of the homily, the presiding priest is within his rights not to comply. I haven’t yet studied the GIRM closely enough to compile a list of the areas where the presiding priest has specific responsibility, and thus discretion to overrule his pastor.

frommi:

I could be wrong, but if an Associate Pastor for whatever reason won’t conform with the pastoral practice of the parish…is the pastor obligated to schedule him for public masses?

I doubt the pastor has any obligation to schedule one of his associates, absent instructions from the bishop. However, in many parishes there will be practical considerations such as having to cancel some masses if the pastor follows your route.