Can Atheists be in a state of Grace?

[o_mlly]

…If the nonbeliever does not have a relationship with God, then no grace is present there. None whatsoever. …

I think you go too far in the above statement. We are all non-believers before we become believers. Without grace we would remain unbelievers. It is God’s call and God’s action that initiates our coming to faith. God’s call is a grace within all of us.

 

[dshix]

o_mlly is correct.

A person not in the state of grace does not have sanctifying grace, but he CAN and often DOES have actual grace, given to him directly by God.

 

[Hicks]

I think you go too far in the above statement. We are all non-believers before we become believers. Without grace we would remain unbelievers. It is God’s call and God’s action that initiates our coming to faith. God’s call is a grace within all of us.

This is true, I should say that sanctifying grace is not present in an unbeliever, but that actual grace is. The distinction is important.

 

[Bradski]

This is true, I should say that sanctifying grace is not present in an unbeliever, but that actual grace is. The distinction is important.

Colour me bewildered.

 

[dshix]

Colour me bewildered.

Maybe you should be Catholic. It would all make sense.

 

[Bradski]

Maybe you should be Catholic. It would all make sense.

You may be right, dshix You may well be right.

But God made me too sceptical. I’m blaming Him…

 

[Hicks]

Colour me bewildered.

I don’t blame you. Briefly, sanctifying grace is the grace given to us at baptism which enables us to share in the life of God. To be in sanctifying grace is to be in a certain state. It can be lost through serious sin and regained by confession. If you die in a state of sanctifying grace, you will go to heaven. If you die without it, you will go to hell.

Actual grace is a supernatural help from God and you don’t need to be in a state of sanctifying grace to receive it. It is called “actual” grace because it “actuates” us, in the sense that it motivates us or causes us to do something. Actual grace is given to the atheist that he may believe in God, the sinner that he may repent, the Christian so that he may do good, the martyr so that he may die a holy death.

Basically, if sanctifying grace is a state in which only the baptized Christian may participate, actual grace is a help from God in which any person, baptized or not, may receive. The ultimate purpose of actual grace is to get a person into the state of sanctifying grace and keep them there.

I apologize in advance if the above explanation is not sufficiently clear.

 

[ffg]

Ha! ‘too’ skeptical.

That’s a good one.

Clever way to try to hide a closed door.

Everyone does like their comfort zones.

I think you’ve spent enough time here to know that questioning is a good thing and quite supported, even on the other side of the door.

The skeptical (no scale) doesn’t go away, it simply shifts to be alert for that which is not from God.

 

[Bradski]

Ha! ‘too’ skeptical.

That’s a good one.

Clever way to try to hide a closed door.

Everyone does like their comfort zones.

I think you’ve spent enough time here to know that questioning is a good thing and quite supported, even on the other side of the door.

The skeptical (no scale) doesn’t go away, it simply shifts to be alert for that which is not from God.

Doubt is an uncomfortable position. But certainty is absurd.

With thanks to M. Francois-Marie Arouet (aka Voltaire).

 

[Bradski]

I don’t blame you. Briefly, sanctifying grace is the grace given to us at baptism which enables us to share in the life of God. To be in sanctifying grace is to be in a certain state. It can be lost through serious sin and regained by confession. If you die in a state of sanctifying grace, you will go to heaven. If you die without it, you will go to hell.

Actual grace is a supernatural help from God and you don’t need to be in a state of sanctifying grace to receive it. It is called “actual” grace because it “actuates” us, in the sense that it motivates us or causes us to do something. Actual grace is given to the atheist that he may believe in God, the sinner that he may repent, the Christian so that he may do good, the martyr so that he may die a holy death.

Basically, if sanctifying grace is a state in which only the baptized Christian may participate, actual grace is a help from God in which any person, baptized or not, may receive. The ultimate purpose of actual grace is to get a person into the state of sanctifying grace and keep them there.

I apologize in advance if the above explanation is not sufficiently clear.

Thanks for that. You can now colour me enlightened.

So having been baptised, I had sanctifying grace. Although I’m not sure about still having it. I guess that depends on one’s definition of serious sin.

 

[dshix]

Doubt is an uncomfortable position. But certainty is absurd.

With thanks to M. Francois-Marie Arouet (aka Voltaire).

Certainty is not always absurd. It can certainly be absurd in regard to the physical sciences, because our observation can only increase evidence to support a theory.

But can you be certain about some things; indeed, you **should **be certain about them. In philosophy, things such as the principle of non-contradiction, the principle of sufficient cause, etc, are things which by our reason, we can come to be certain are true.

 

[Bradski]

Certainty is not always absurd. It can certainly be absurd in regard to the physical sciences, because our observation can only increase evidence to support a theory.

But can you be certain about some things; indeed, you **should **be certain about them. In philosophy, things such as the principle of non-contradiction, the principle of sufficient cause, etc, are things which by our reason, we can come to be certain are true.

I think he was referring specifically to religion. He wasn’t a big fan of Catholicism.

 

[Vico]

Can atheists be in a state of grace, or perhaps be saintly in their own way?

I mean can an atheist do God’s will and be kind, doing pleasing actions to God, without necessarily believing He exists?

From the Catholic perspective, yes for one baptized as an infant, since atheism (Merriam-Webster) is defined (1a) as " a lack of belief or a strong disbelief in the existence of a god or any gods".

Catechism

1250 Born with a fallen human nature and tainted by original sin, children also have need of the new birth in Baptism to be freed from the power of darkness and brought into the realm of the freedom of the children of God, to which all men are called.50 The sheer gratuitousness of the grace of salvation is particularly manifest in infant Baptism. The Church and the parents would deny a child the priceless grace of becoming a child of God were they not to confer Baptism shortly after birth.51

1253 …The faith required for Baptism is not a perfect and mature faith, but a beginning that is called to develop.

1254 For all the baptized, children or adults, faith must grow after Baptism. …

 

[Charlemagne_III]

Doubt is an uncomfortable position. But certainty is absurd.

With thanks to M. Francois-Marie Arouet (aka Voltaire).

Of which, no doubt, Voltaire was certain.

 

[Aloysium]

Of which, no doubt, Voltaire was certain.

The renaissance was a time of hope that humanity would finally get it right. Reason was going to usher in a new world. Of course, the old world was just as rational, but the focus on nature was going to do away with what would otherwise be superstition. The quote does have a certain appeal to those who challenge what they perceive as the status quo, viewing it with a skepticism that does not reach into their own cherished ideas and beliefs. That was a long time ago; the world changed, much for the good. But, people haven’t.

My understanding is that Voltaire was a social critic - no introspection. While he seems to have been a very brave and determined individual, he does portray himself as being of a greater caliber than the rabble and multitude he disparaged as being not worth of enlightenment, or blacks, whom he considered not quite human. The absurdity I see is in his attacking the Church, Scripture and even the person of Jesus Christ, while condemning the butchery he witnessed about him. The evil in them, I suppose, would boil down to their offending his delicate and refined sensibilities.

Absurdity lies in the disconnect between our search for meaning and our attempts to derive it from any other source than God Himself.