Can Atheists go to Heaven? Are they sinners?

[Credinci]

I ask this genuinely and with no intention of arguing.

I was reading this topic: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=371081 interested to see what the fate of Atheists is, but nothing specific was brought up.
Is there anything official that explains what happens to someone who has actively and willingly denied the existence of god?
Is it a Sin?

I find that when I compare my life to a Catholic one, I do follow all of the Commandments (to the best of my ability), and I am generally a good person. I cannot think of a single immoral thing I’ve ever done. Do I NEED a Religion? I find that on occasion some Religious people “commit me to hell” for being a bad person (as they noticed I’m an Atheist), but is fair? Just because I don’t believe in God, it doesn’t make me a bad person.

 

[1ke]

I ask this genuinely and with no intention of arguing.

I was reading this topic: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=371081 interested to see what the fate of Atheists is, but nothing specific was brought up.

The Church (I presume you are wanting a Catholic response to this even though posted on the “non-Catholic Religion” section) does not categorize people in this way. The Church has no teaching on XYZ group going to Heaven or Hell.

What the Church does teach is this:

We require sanctifying grace in our souls to enter heaven. Those who are in a state of grace when they die go to Heaven, they may go through Purgatory first if they require purgation, but they will then enter Heaven.

Those who die without grace in their souls-- what is called a “state of mortal sin”-- go to Hell. They have permanently and purposely chosen separation from God. Mortal sin is a state of separation from God so completely that there is no grace in one’s soul.

We are born into a state of Original Sin, a lack of sanctifying grace in our souls. God has given us the ability to receive this grace through baptism. When we sin mortally (i.e. commit sins against the Ten Commandments… or large number of smaller sins that eat away at our relationship with God) we can be reconciled and receive grace again through the Sacrament of Reconciliation (Confession). The other Sacraments also give grace.

This is the normative way God has established as a covenant through Jesus Christ.

God can operate extraordinarily and give grace in ways other than the Sacraments. So, the Church teaching is that the Sacraments are necessary for Salvation-- but God may choose to act outside the Sacraments.

Is there anything official that explains what happens to someone who has actively and willingly denied the existence of god?

Well, this depends on many factors. It is not black and white. It depends, firstly, on that person’s full knowledge and free will. One may or may not be culpable in God’s sight, depending upon what one knows and one’s freedom to act. For example, a child brought up in Saudi Arabia as a Muslim hears about Jesus/Christianity when his family goes on vacation to…let’s just say… Egypt. But, he is not converted and lives his life as a Muslim. Does he **really **have knowledge? Free will? Probably not.

That would be different from someone who knowingly and purposely rejects God, rejects Christ and his Sacraments, and willfully commits mortal sin and has no contrition.

Guess what? Only God can judge which is which because only God can read our intellect, will, soul. That’s what the particular judgment is at the time of our death.

Is it a Sin?

It’s grave matter. If done with full knowledge and free will-- it’s a sin and a mortal one.

But remember, those who reject God completely and go to Hell do so out of their own desire to have nothing to do with God. Hell is the place they CHOOSE to be because it is the absence of God.

I find that when I compare my life to a Catholic one, I do follow all of the Commandments (to the best of my ability), and I am generally a good person.

That’s nice, but that is not sufficient. Being a “good person” is a good start. But, it is not the sum total of what the human person is called to be or do.

I cannot think of a single immoral thing I’ve ever done.

If you can’t think of a single immoral thing you’ve ever done-- you are simply deluding yourself. We all sin, and we all sin quite frequently. Perhaps your conscience is not formed properly if you don’t think you ever do anything immoral.

Do I NEED a Religion?

The Catholic answer to that would be yes. You need religion because you need God. He’s your Creator and you are called to worship.

I find that on occasion some Religious people “commit me to hell” for being a bad person (as they noticed I’m an Atheist), but is fair? Just because I don’t believe in God, it doesn’t make me a bad person.

There are some religious people who commit the person sitting next to them in the pew on Sunday to hell too. These people are committing the sins of pride, presumption, and lack of charity. Surprise! Sinners in the world!

Lack of belief in God may not make you a “bad person” but it does make you a person who’s soul is in jeopardy.

 

[manualman]

The question hinges on the definition of the word “atheist.”

It isn’t enough to define an atheist and a person who states an abstract disbelief in God.

The kind of atheist that WILL go to hell is one that has actually and consciously encountered the love of God in his life and rejected it, refused it, denied it exists. Such people will have their wish granted: eternity with no God, nor none of His attributes.

But there is another type of person who calls himself an atheist. This type is simply never recognized God when he has come across him. He rejects the idea of God, but not the reality. I’ll trust God to cut through the confusion and misinformation and possibly pain that exists in such a person, perhaps in this life or perhaps at judgement. That’s God’s job, not mine.

But I do have to marvel that you honestly feel you’ve never done anything immoral in your life. Are you SERIOUS!?!? Sounds like you might have a tad of a humility problem right there. I suspect there will come a day when you are confronted by a cascade of personal failures. Remember Jesus on that day and remember that he doesn’t seek perfect people (there aren’t any), he invites broken people to come and BECOME perfected. (But be forewarned, it takes an awfully long time!)

 

[Nominefili]

"He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters. And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come. "

Matthew 12:30-32

What is the sin against the Holy Spirit? Unbelief. What happens if someone dies in sin? They stay dead.

 

[Credinci]

For the record, I would like to withdraw the statement declaring I have never done anything “Immoral”, I simply meant I could not remember a time I did anything particularity serious, I wasn’t directly insinuating I’ve never done anything immoral. I have probably done many immoral things.

Secondly, I was born a Roman Catholic. I decided out of free will that I would refuse the teachings and conversely I denied the existence of God. (this was at a young age)

Maybe it makes me slightly agnostic that it slightly frightens me that there is a chance I may be wrong about my belief in Atheism. Furthermore, it might be a little wrong of me that I’m trying to find a cheap way out by securing my existence as an Atheist anyway.

Regardless; does Purgatory not have a place for Atheists? Or is this not part of the Catholic religion?

 

[Cluny]

Which of us is NOT a sinner, Credinci?

 

[1ke]

For the record, I would like to withdraw the statement declaring I have never done anything “Immoral”, I simply meant I could not remember a time I did anything particularity serious, I wasn’t directly insinuating I’ve never done anything immoral. I have probably done many immoral things.

Good call.

Secondly, I was born a Roman Catholic. I decided out of free will that I would refuse the teachings and conversely I denied the existence of God. (this was at a young age)

You are still a Catholic, allbeit one who has rejected the Church, the Sacraments, and God. The Church would say you are objectively in a state of mortal sin. Subjectively, again there is the full knowledge and free will at play. You say you were at a “young age.” I think that this depends upon many factors including how young and what may have happened in your life to lead you to that conclusion. An 8 year old who declares there is no God because their favorite pet or their grandfather dies and they are in pain and grief is not the same as a 23 year old who rejects the Church’s teaching and authority out of an intellectual denial of the Truth. Culture can influence our perceptions, but on the whole an adult is accountable for their actions.

Maybe it makes me slightly agnostic that it slightly frightens me that there is a chance I may be wrong about my belief in Atheism.

Well, there are many who share your concerns. Perhaps you might re-examine the Church of your youth and the reasons you rejected the Faith. There are many good books-- CS Lewis (Mere Christianity) and GK Chesterton come to mind along with myriads of Catholic books. One I highly recommend is Theology for Beginners by Frank Sheed. He was a fantastic writer at the onset of the 20th century in Britain, and he did sidewalk evangelization in Hyde Park at Speaker’s Corner. He’s a deep thinker with a wonderful writing style. Peter Kreeft is also excellent and his books are readable.

These are men whose intellect towers over most-- these are deep thinkers. They aren’t going to give you answers like “because the Church said so.” Their faith is well-reasoned and they are articulate.

Furthermore, it might be a little wrong of me that I’m trying to find a cheap way out by securing my existence as an Atheist anyway.

Hmmm… maybe you’re on to something! Have you considered going back to Mass-- just as an observer? Maybe contemplating things in a quiet Catholic church somewhere? Or maybe just trying to learn about the Faith from an adult’s perspective? See above book recommendations.

Faith is, ultimately a gift from God. You’ve been baptized. You’ve receive that gift and the gift of grace too. The Holy Spirit dwells in you. It’s just been a very long time since you tapped into that grace and aligned your intellect and will to it. It’s still there, though.

Regardless; does Purgatory not have a place for Atheists? Or is this not part of the Catholic religion?

Remember, Purgatory isn’t some sort of “third place” people might go. Kind of a “not so bad as Hell but not so good as Heaven place.” No there is no place like that.

Everyone in Purgatory died in a state of grace. They are simply in a state of purgation-- which means a spiritual cleansing. Those who die in a state of grace but not *fully *detached from their sins must be spiritually cleansed before entering the presence of God. Sort of like wiping your feet and cleaning up in the mud room before entering the house. We must be completely cleansed in spirit before entering the House of God. That’s what Purgatory is, and at the Final Judgment, Purgatory will cease to exist.

Heaven and Hell are the only two choices regarding our eternal destiny.

 

[1ke]

Oh, and here’s a link to the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It is a summary of the Church’s teaching, and it is arranged logically for catechesis (teaching) into the Creed, the Sacraments, Life in Christ (morality), and Prayer.

vatican.va/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm

 

[1ke]

It seems you may be at a juncture of this nature:

I’m a good person. But, something’s missing. What’s the meaning of my life? What am I made for? What am I destined for?

The answer to that is God. We are made for union with God. As St. Augustine-- who spent the first 30 years of his life pursuing the secular ambitions of a legal career and the pleasures of many carnal affairs (yes even in the 400s AD, he was climbing the ladder and living the “good life”)-- said, “My heart is restless until it rests in you.” He came to realize he was made for more, made **as **more.

It’s our spiritual souls that are eternal, that are made for union with God. And no amount of being a “nice person,” or good at our job, or a good spouse, can ultimately satisfy us.

Perhaps you are searching for the “meaning of life” at this point in your journey?

 

[manualman]

For the record, I would like to withdraw the statement declaring I have never done anything “Immoral”, I simply meant I could not remember a time I did anything particularity serious, I wasn’t directly insinuating I’ve never done anything immoral. I have probably done many immoral things.

Secondly, I was born a Roman Catholic. I decided out of free will that I would refuse the teachings and conversely I denied the existence of God. (this was at a young age)

Maybe it makes me slightly agnostic that it slightly frightens me that there is a chance I may be wrong about my belief in Atheism. Furthermore, it might be a little wrong of me that I’m trying to find a cheap way out by securing my existence as an Atheist anyway.

Regardless; does Purgatory not have a place for Atheists? Or is this not part of the Catholic religion?

That makes much more sense. My wife will tell you I’m rather too quick to go to “always” and “never” statements in the heat of argument myself!

Purgatory is NOT a place of second chances. It is a place where those who have already begged for and received God’s Grace and forgiveness get ‘finished’ before they enter heaven. Without it, heaven wouldn’t be heaven.

Tell you what. When nobody is looking and there is no reason to be embarassed, pray. Ask God to show Himself to you. Ask Him genuinely for help believing and understanding. Not for signs and wonders, but for an awareness of His presence. Get some place quiet, away from phones and engines and stereos. A nice camping trip maybe. God talks in silence. Give it a shot. Nobody will laugh!

 

[JRKH]

I ask this genuinely and with no intention of arguing.

I was reading this topic: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=371081 interested to see what the fate of Atheists is, but nothing specific was brought up.
Is there anything official that explains what happens to someone who has actively and willingly denied the existence of god?
Is it a Sin?

I find that when I compare my life to a Catholic one, I do follow all of the Commandments (to the best of my ability), and I am generally a good person. I cannot think of a single immoral thing I’ve ever done. Do I NEED a Religion? I find that on occasion some Religious people “commit me to hell” for being a bad person (as they noticed I’m an Atheist), but is fair? Just because I don’t believe in God, it doesn’t make me a bad person.

Credinci,
I see that you have already received some good answers, but I would like to address this from a slightly different viewpoint.
Recently I have been reading the Dialogues of St Catherine of Sienna (A Doctor of The Church). These take the form of Questions which she asked of God, and God’s responses to her questions. The answers are written in first person, God, as if it is God speaking. She dictated these essays during periods of ecstasy.

In a nutshell God, teaching through Catherine explains that He does not “Send us to Heaven or Hell” but rather we make the choice based on how we live our lives. In other words we accept for ourselves that which we have built up by our beliefs and actions.
This is truly the best explanation of the particular judgement that I have ever read.

From the Dialogues of St Catherine.
"**Wherefore, know, that at the moment of death, they, having passed their life under the lordship of the Devil **(not that they were forced to do so, for as I told you they cannot be forced, but they voluntarily put themselves into his hands), and, arriving at the extremity of their death under this perverse lordship, **they await no other judgment than that of their own conscience, and desperately, despairingly, come to eternal damnation. **Wherefore Hell, through their hate, surges up to them in the extremity of death, and before they get there, they take hold of it, by means of their lord the Devil.

"**As the righteous, who have lived in charity and died in love, if they have lived perfectly in virtue, illuminated with the light of faith, with perfect hope in the Blood of the Lamb, when the extremity of death comes, see the good which I have prepared for them, and embrace it with the arms of love, holding fast with pressure of love to Me, the Supreme and Eternal Good. And so they taste eternal life before they have left the mortal body, that is, before the soul be separated from the body. **

"**Others who have passed their lives, and have arrived at the last extremity of death with an ordinary charity (not in that great perfection), embrace My mercy **with the same light of faith and hope that had those perfect ones, but, in them, it is imperfect, for, because they were imperfect, they constrained My mercy, counting My mercy greater than their sins.

“The wicked sinners do the contrary, for, seeing, with desperation, their destination, they embrace it with hatred, as I told you. **So that neither the one nor the other waits for judgment, but, in departing this life, they receive every one their place, as I have told you, and they taste it and possess it before they depart from the body, at the extremity of death – the damned with hatred and with despair, and the perfect ones with love and the light of faith and with the hope of the Blood. And the imperfect arrive at the place of Purgatory, with mercy and the same faith.” **

Now -
To relate this in terms of one who rejects God’s very existance (the athiest), how can such a one reach out, at death, to either God’s Love or God’s mercy? Since such a one cannot reach out to those, (for an athiest, by denying God, denies both God’s Love and God’s mercy,) he Will reach out for exacly what he believes in - Nothingness and death - and fall into the despair of Hell.

By reading your OP, let me say that you sound to me like the rich young man who asked Jesus what he must do to inheret eternal life, Jesus told him to obey the commandments. Then the young man asked what else must he do. Christ responded that if he wanted treasure in heaven, “go - sell all that you have, give to the poor, come back and follow me.” (Of course the young man was beginning from a position of belief in God).
In your case, you have accepted the need to live a good moral life according to the Laws of God, even if not consciencely. You need only make the one further, and greatest step. That of belief in God, and the promises of His only begotten Son Jesus Christ. Then Following Him which means, not just accepting God’s existance, but doing all you can to build up, through faith and works, that natural tendency to rely on God’s Goodness AND Mercy so that when you come to death, you will reach out for these instead of embracing “death” both bodily and spiritually.

Peace
James

 

[srferdave]

My sense is that God is calling you to believe. Your questions sound like you are looking for reasons to believe. Check out these sites…

peterkreeft.com/home.htm

catholic.com/thisrock/2006/0605uan.asp

 

[iona_scribe]

I ask this genuinely and with no intention of arguing.

I was reading this topic: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=371081 interested to see what the fate of Atheists is, but nothing specific was brought up.
Is there anything official that explains what happens to someone who has actively and willingly denied the existence of god?
Is it a Sin?

I find that when I compare my life to a Catholic one, I do follow all of the Commandments (to the best of my ability), and I am generally a good person. I cannot think of a single immoral thing I’ve ever done. Do I NEED a Religion? I find that on occasion some Religious people “commit me to hell” for being a bad person (as they noticed I’m an Atheist), but is fair? Just because I don’t believe in God, it doesn’t make me a bad person.

It’s true what the last poster said, the Church doesn’t have categories for who gets to go to heaven and who doesn’t. Only God can judge the heart. We just know that one way or another all people who enter heaven do so through the grace and mercy of Christ. I’ll try to explain what that means and why it’s a little different from the protestant concept.

I’m going to give a quote from St. Paul’s letter to the Romans 2:12-16, and some Catholic please correct me if I’m using it wrongly:

12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

All people have God’s law written on their hearts, whether they know to call it that or not. Some people believe in Jung’s theory of the collective unconscious, that we have certain things imprinted deep in our psyche, certain archetypes by which we know what is universally true and good. The Catholic believes something similar, but in more of a Platonic sense…we attribute the origin of this to God, and we call it the conscience (that still small voice inside yourself that tells you what’s right and wrong).

The way that sin is understood in Catholicism, is that a very grave sin (mortal sin, one that cuts your off from the life of the Spirit) is a sin that is committed with full knowledge of what is being done and deliberate consent. God will not judge us harshly for things that we don’t know or understand yet. At the same time, it’s our job to make sure that we’re doing everything we can to seek the truth and inform our consciences so that we can make the best decisions possible. It’s easier to avoid sin if our chief desire is God, because sin is something that happens as a result of being turned away from him.

The protestant concept of salvation depends on a one-time decision where we enter into a relationship with Christ, and this is absolutely necessary to enter heaven. The Catholic concept is a little different; we see salvation as more of a life-long process. After all, if it is possible to choose God, it is also possible to turn away. They key is staying on track, on a trajectory towards God and not away.

The great pagan philosophers were very interested in finding out what is true, good, and beautiful. Aristotle saw God as the ultimate fulfillment and source of these principles. In the Middle Ages, Thomas Aquinas defined much of Catholic doctrine in this light.

Basically, what I’m trying to say, is that if you’re an atheist because you are honestly seeking out what is true and trying to live by it, then you are not far from God. God is not interested in punishing you for things that you were never knew were true, and I’m sure it even pleases him when people reject false concepts about him in the name of truth.

At the same time, in my biased Catholic perspective, I think that anyone who seeks after the truth for long enough will arrive at God as truth’s fulfillment and source. It’s entirely possible to be on some sort of trajectory towards God while an atheist, but I wouldn’t want to still be on that phase of the journey at the end of my life. After all, heaven is basically just the immediate and eternal presence of God. If I never wanted to be close to God, I certainly wouldn’t want to be in heaven. But if I do, then I should practice being as close to him as possible now during my life. The Church offers so many wonderful ways to do just that. Plus in the end there will be less sin to purge away before I can see Him.

I hope that helps.

 

[iona_scribe]

"He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters. And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come. "

Matthew 12:30-32

What is the sin against the Holy Spirit? Unbelief. What happens if someone dies in sin? They stay dead.

Sorry if this is off topic, but I was under the impression that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit was when someone says that the good works of the Holy Spirit are actually from Satan. At least that’s what the rest of the episode that quote is attached to seems to imply (verses 22-29). I’d think that calling God’s grace a work by the power of Satan would be way more offensive to God than just not believing in him. Not that unbelief is much better, just that its a reversable condition of the heart.

 

[AntiTheist]

Maybe it makes me slightly agnostic that it slightly frightens me that there is a chance I may be wrong about my belief in Atheism.

Well, what if you’re wrong about atheism, but it turns out that Islam is true? Or Hinduism?

In that case, converting to Catholicism would be a huge mistake.

 

[srferdave]

Well, what if you’re wrong about atheism, but it turns out that Islam is true? Or Hinduism?

In that case, converting to Catholicism would be a huge mistake.

I don’t agree. I think believing in God through any religion is better than not believing in God at all. At least your mind is open to his presence.

 

[JRKH]

Well, what if you’re wrong about atheism, but it turns out that Islam is true? Or Hinduism?

In that case, converting to Catholicism would be a huge mistake.

Why???

Peace
James

 

[AntiTheist]

Why???

Peace
James

Because if Islam is true, then converting to Catholicism would damn you to hell. Because if Hinduism is true, then converting to Catholicism would condemn you to their version of hell. Because if Zoroastrianism is true, then converting to Catholicism would condemn you to their version of hell. Etc., etc.

 

[1ke]

Because if Islam is true, then converting to Catholicism would damn you to hell. Because if Hinduism is true, then converting to Catholicism would condemn you to their version of hell. Because if Zoroastrianism is true, then converting to Catholicism would condemn you to their version of hell. Etc., etc.

The OP is already a Catholic. He would not be “converting” to Catholicism.

 

[AntiTheist]

The OP is already a Catholic. He would not be “converting” to Catholicism.

Putting aside the fact that the OP lists himself as “Atheist,” try to follow the argument I’m making here:

Imagine a world in which some religion other than Catholicism is true. In that world, after death, all Catholics would go to hell (or whatever version of hell or punishment is reserved for those who did not believe in whatever the real religion is).

In that world, being a Catholic would be a grave mistake.

The OP asked, essentially, “well, what if my atheism is wrong? Maybe I should be a Catholic just in case…” And I was pointing out that just because there might be a god (or gods) doesn’t mean that it’s the Catholic god.

It could be the Hindu gods, the Greek gods, the Norse gods.

The choice isn’t “Atheist vs. Catholic,” the choice is “Atheist vs. Catholic or Protestant or Islam or Hindu or Buddhist or Greek gods or Roman gods or etc. etc. etc.”

Those religions can’t all be right, and if you choose the wrong religion, you’re in big trouble – but while they can’t all be right, they can all be wrong, and I’m in the position where I’d like to be intellectually honest and say that I see no reason to choose any of them over any others.