Can Byzantine Catholic attend Orthodox liturgy?

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Otche_Nash

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Hi,
I am wondering if a Byzantine Catholic can attend an Orthodox liturgy if there is no Eastern rite church available, or is he obliged to attend a RC mass, in this circumstance?

(I’m asking this from the Catholic perspective. Whether the Orthodox will allow reception of communion is another matter.)
 
The standard answer from the Western Catholic is that only a Catholic Divine Liturgy (Mass) fulfills one’s obligation. Obligation is also a Western term that is not a part of Eastern tradition.

My line of thinking is…

Rome officially does not seek the reception of Orthodox Christians into Communion with Rome. I was baptized and chrismated in the Eastern Orthodox Church. Just because I now affirm the Pope, does it mean that I should not attend the Sunday Orthodox Divine Liturgy anymore (unless I also go to a Catholic one)? It was okay for me to attend it until I accepted the Pope? The Pope does not seek out the reception of the Eastern Orthodox into Communion with Rome but, if I accept the Pope, I must attend Sunday DL/Mass in a Catholic parish and the Orthodox ones no longer count?

It does not make sense to me. 🤷 I doubt the pope would tell Orthodox Christians to stop going to their parishes because it no longer “counts”. 😉
 
While the official line from the West is that you have to go to a Catholic liturgy, I’ve heard MANY priests (particularly Melkite) say that it’s better to go to your Orthodox counterpart Church than an RC church.

I’ve gone to various Oriental Orthodox liturgies and received and I am yet to be smitten by God for receiving Orthodox Jesus 🤷.
 
If your concern is to properly fulfill your Sunday obligation, your best bet is to find out if your local Catholic parish has a Saturday evening Vigil Mass, and attend that. Then you may attend the Divine Liturgy at the Orthodox Church on Sunday.

Do NOT present yourself for Communion, though! The Orthodox really, really don’t want you to do that, so respect their wishes when you’re visiting. Perhaps you could just pray some version of the Spiritual Communion prayer:
My Jesus, I believe that you are present in the most Blessed Sacrament. I love You above all things and I desire to receive You into my soul. Since I cannot now receive You sacramentally, come at least spiritually into my heart. I embrace You as if You have already come, and unite myself wholly to You. Never permit me to be separated from You. Amen.
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Alternatively, see if the Orthodox Church has Vespers on Saturday evening and attend that, then go to Mass on Sunday morning (where you certainly MAY receive the Eucharist). 🙂

(and just a reminder - some people seem to forget this, but the obligation is to attend Mass or Liturgy - NOT to receive the Eucharist. That’s great but not mandatory!)

We often do one or the other of these when traveling. It’s a nice way to see both East and West. 🙂
 
Otche_Nash said:
Hi,
I am wondering if a Byzantine Catholic can attend an Orthodox liturgy if there is no Eastern rite church available, or is he obliged to attend a RC mass, in this circumstance?

(I’m asking this from the Catholic perspective. Whether the Orthodox will allow reception of communion is another matter.)
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YES! All catholics are obliged to attend a CATHOLIC mass on Sunday. An orthodox one does NOT fulfill your Sunday obligation!
 
Igypop83 said:
YES! All catholics are obliged to attend a CATHOLIC mass on Sunday. An orthodox one does NOT fulfill your Sunday obligation!
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Eastern Catholics do not have a theology of “obligations” like the West. Missing feasts and Sundays is a pastoral matter the one’s pastor deals with individually. Sort of like obeying the spirit of the law rather than the letter of the law. 🙂
 
Zekariya said:
Rome officially does not seek the reception of Orthodox Christians into Communion with Rome…
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You are very much mistaken about that. All of the recent popes have been very explicit about their desire for renewed communion.
 
PaulfromIowa said:
You are very much mistaken about that. All of the recent popes have been very explicit about their desire for renewed communion.
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I don’t think Zekariya was speaking about “reunion” but rather about “conversion” which is something totally different.
 
This probably won’t help much, but if the question were posed to Canon Lawyers, Eastern or Western, there would be a variety of interpretations. FWLIW, mine (and no, I’m not a Canon Lawyer, but let’s just say I have some experience with these matters) is as I’ve said umpteen times in this forum: a strong argument can be made that attendance at an Orthodox Liturgy (whether OO, ACoE, or EO) can be made that is does, in fact, satisfy any so-called “obligation” that may attach by Roman law.
 
malphono said:
This probably won’t help much, but if the question were posed to Canon Lawyers, Eastern or Western, there would be a variety of interpretations. FWLIW, mine (and no, I’m not a Canon Lawyer, but let’s just say I have some experience with these matters) is as I’ve said umpteen times in this forum: a strong argument can be made that attendance at an Orthodox Liturgy (whether OO, ACoE, or EO) can be made that is does, in fact, satisfy any so-called “obligation” that may attach by Roman law.
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The Ruthenian priest has given his blessing to do so. But i will probably play it safe and attend the Sat evening RC mass, and then Orthodox liturgy on Sunday. Although i will continue to probe this matter further.
Thanks to everyone for your help!
 
theistgal said:
If your concern is to properly fulfill your Sunday obligation, your best bet is to find out if your local Catholic parish has a Saturday evening Vigil Mass, and attend that. Then you may attend the Divine Liturgy at the Orthodox Church on Sunday.

Do NOT present yourself for Communion, though! The Orthodox really, really don’t want you to do that, so respect their wishes when you’re visiting. Perhaps you could just pray some version of the Spiritual Communion prayer:

Alternatively, see if the Orthodox Church has Vespers on Saturday evening and attend that, then go to Mass on Sunday morning (where you certainly MAY receive the Eucharist). 🙂

(and just a reminder - some people seem to forget this, but the obligation is to attend Mass or Liturgy - NOT to receive the Eucharist. That’s great but not mandatory!)

We often do one or the other of these when traveling. It’s a nice way to see both East and West. 🙂
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That’s bad advice. It depends on the church/parish. Ask the priest before liturgy if you may receive as a Catholic Christian. If he says no, then respect his wishes.
 
It’s difficult to believe that the Eastern Catholic churches have not said one way or the other if there is indeed a mandated Sunday Obligation as there is in the Latin Rite. Leaving it up to individual priests seems like a very poor idea.

For a Catholic priest (of any rite) to suggest it’s “better” to attend any Orthodox liturgy than a Latin Rite one (if an EC liturgy is impossible) just doesn’t sound too good.
 
VicFerrari said:
That’s bad advice. It depends on the church/parish. Ask the priest before liturgy if you may receive as a Catholic Christian. If he says no, then respect his wishes.
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No. The other poster is right. Non-Orthodox people, such as those who have left the Church in favor of another (like the Roman Catholic Church, or any other non-Orthodox Church), should not attempt to receive communion in the Orthodox Church. It is a grave offense to the ecclesiology of the Church to attempt to do so just because you might find a priest who is willing to cooperate in that offense.
 
VicFerrari said:
It’s difficult to believe that the Eastern Catholic churches have not said one way or the other if there is indeed a mandated Sunday Obligation as there is in the Latin Rite. Leaving it up to individual priests seems like a very poor idea.
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Thus an example of the difference between East and West.
For a Catholic priest (of any rite) to suggest it’s “better” to attend any Orthodox liturgy than a Latin Rite one (if an EC liturgy is impossible) just doesn’t sound too good.
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Well since we are on the same liturgical calendar as the Orthodox it surely makes sense to hear the readings we would hear were we in our Eastern Catholic Church, to commemorate saints we’d commemorate in our own parish, to pray the prayers of our own tradition.
 
*It’s difficult to believe that the Eastern Catholic churches have not said one way or the other if there is indeed a mandated Sunday Obligation as there is in the Latin Rite. Leaving it up to individual priests seems like a very poor idea.*There is no “Sunday obligation” in the Eastern Canons.

*For a Catholic priest (of any rite) to suggest it’s “better” to attend any Orthodox liturgy than a Latin Rite one (if an EC liturgy is impossible) just doesn’t sound too good. *
Sadly, in many places, one is able to find a parish more Catholic in faith in the Orthodox Church than in some Latin parishes - many Latin parishes are far from the faith taught by the Vatican. I saw some conference in Liturgy Conference based in LA and wondered if they were protestant Episcopalians or some other sect, or if we and they are of the same faith at all.

The Code of Canons for the Eastern Churches specificially states:
Canon 15
  1. The Christian faithful, conscious of their own responsibility, are bound by Christian obedience to follow what the pastors of the Church, as representatives of Christ, declare as teachers of the faith or determine as leaders of the Church. 2. The Christian faithful are free to make known their needs, especially spiritual ones, and their desires to the pastors of the Church. 3. In accord with the knowledge, competence and position which they possess, they have the right and even at times a duty to manifest to the pastors of the Church their opinion on matters which pertain to the good of the Church, and they have a right to make their opinion known to the other Christian faithful, with due regard for the integrity of faith and morals and reverence for the same pastors, and with consideration for the common good and the dignity of persons.
Canon 17
The Christian faithful have the right to worship God according to the prescriptions of their own Church sui iuris, and to follow their own form of spiritual life consonant with the teaching of the Church.

The closest thing to a possible violation - depending on each bishop and parish priest is:
Canon 1440
One who violates the norms of law concerning communicatio in sacris can be punished with an appropriate penalty.

But it has never been interpreted either by the local bishops or the Vatican in the way you presented earlier, at least not in regard to main stream Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox or Assyrian Church of the East.
 
Zekariya said:
Eastern Catholics do not have a theology of “obligations” like the West. Missing feasts and Sundays is a pastoral matter the one’s pastor deals with individually. Sort of like obeying the spirit of the law rather than the letter of the law. 🙂
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I’m sorry but this can not be correct. The Catechism states that

"The precept of the Church specifies the law of the Lord more precisely: "On Sundays and other holy days of obligation the faithful are bound to participate in the Mass."117 “The precept of participating in the Mass is satisfied by assistance at a Mass which is celebrated anywhere in a Catholic rite either on the holy day or on the evening of the preceding day.”

Nowhere it is mentioned that this holds just for roman rite catholics. So all faithful are bound to participate a Mass no matter if they have a “different theology”.
 
SyroMalankara said:
Sadly, in many places, one is able to find a parish more Catholic in faith in the Orthodox Church than in some Latin parishes - many Latin parishes are far from the faith taught by the Vatican. I saw some conference in Liturgy Conference based in LA and wondered if they were protestant Episcopalians or some other sect, or if we and they are of the same faith at all.

The perceived quality of the liturgy (as long as it’s valid) is not the issue being discussed.
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SyroMalankara said:
The Code of Canons for the Eastern Churches specificially states:
Canon 15
  1. The Christian faithful, conscious of their own responsibility, are bound by Christian obedience to follow what the pastors of the Church, as representatives of Christ, declare as teachers of the faith or determine as leaders of the Church. 2. The Christian faithful are free to make known their needs, especially spiritual ones, and their desires to the pastors of the Church. 3. In accord with the knowledge, competence and position which they possess, they have the right and even at times a duty to manifest to the pastors of the Church their opinion on matters which pertain to the good of the Church, and they have a right to make their opinion known to the other Christian faithful, with due regard for the integrity of faith and morals and reverence for the same pastors, and with consideration for the common good and the dignity of persons.
Canon 17
The Christian faithful have the right to worship God according to the prescriptions of their own Church sui iuris, and to follow their own form of spiritual life consonant with the teaching of the Church.

The closest thing to a possible violation - depending on each bishop and parish priest is:
Canon 1440
One who violates the norms of law concerning communicatio in sacris can be punished with an appropriate penalty.

But it has never been interpreted either by the local bishops or the Vatican in the way you presented earlier, at least not in regard to main stream Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox or Assyrian Church of the East.
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All this does nothing to answer the question if Eastern Catholics are required to attend a sacrificial liturgy on all Sundays under penalty of mortal sin as in the West. It also doesn’t give permission (if such a requirement indeed exists) to substitute an Orthodox liturgy for a Catholic liturgy.
 
dzheremi said:
No. The other poster is right. Non-Orthodox people, such as those who have left the Church in favor of another (like the Roman Catholic Church, or any other non-Orthodox Church), should not attempt to receive communion in the Orthodox Church. It is a grave offense to the ecclesiology of the Church to attempt to do so just because you might find a priest who is willing to cooperate in that offense.
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You too are wrong. Not all Eastern/Oriental Orthodox churches close communion to Catholic Christians. That’s simply the way it is.

Some Orthodox churches like the Russians even forbid giving communion to members of other Orthodox state churches but that’s definitely not the norm.
 
Once again: It’s not about whether or not you can find a church that will commune you despite the fact that you do not share the Orthodox faith. That does happen, sadly. But your responsibility is first and foremost to recognize that, as a visitor from another Christian tradition that is not in any kind of formal communion with the Orthodox Church, you should not commune there. Other people’s ignorance or laxity is not a green light for you to compound the problem.

From my own bishop, HG Bishop Youssef (emphasis added):
The Coptic Orthodox Church is not yet in communion with the Catholic Churches. We are neither united in theology nor in dogma, and many differences still exist. Some of the Roman Catholic Liturgical texts may state the allowance of the Coptic Orthodox people to partake of their Holy Communion. Respectfully, we do not reciprocate this agreement and neither allow anyone outside of the full rites and dogmatic principles of the Nicene Creed and the Coptic Orthodox Sacramental Life of Holy Baptism by immersion and Holy Confirmation by the anointing of the Holy Chrism Myron Oil, to partake in the Holy Communion of the Coptic Orthodox Church. …] There is no reason why someone needs to partake of Holy Communion in any other church other than his/her own unless s/he lives in a region where their primary church does not exist in that locale. This is becoming less and less the case every day as the Coptic Orthodox Church is growing and spreading her wings throughout the world. However, the baptism of the Catholics is not affirmed due to the many dogmatic differences. Thus, Catholics are required full conversion, including baptism, if they wish to partake of the Holy Mysteries of the Coptic Orthodox Church.
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This is the final word on the matter, and no other argument is accepted by the Orthodox faithful. Anyone else who promotes any other reasoning or action should answer to their own bishops likewise (and the recent crackdown by HH Pope Tawadros II on similar kinds of thinking in the D.C. churches, which are accused of promoting Protestant ecclesiology and theology, shows that we do take this seriously).
 
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