Can Catholics believe in Civil Partnerships?

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However I have also said I am done debating about the gays. I think we need to get the CAF gays on this thread. They would be better to debate them than somebody who isn’t even gay?

They are the ones that we’re speaking of anyways, are we not?

So don’t be too surprised If i don’t respond anymore, I’m really not in the mood to continue to debate this. For me, its gone on long enough, but feel free to debate others. So I think my response to you up above will be my last. 👍
 
To my brothers and sisters in Christ -

Do not fail through Indifference. “Why should I say anything? They aren’t hurting anyone.” The fabric of society is being torn. Read and understand clear Church teaching.

Peace,
Ed
 
Hahaha. You honestly think that homosexuals don’t know what Christians have to say about this? Homosexuals know VERY well why Christians do not like what they do. Thats why gay marriage is illegal in so many places.

I am not going up to a gay person and telling them they are going to hell. You feel free to do it, but I’m not that rude.

I’m not one of those nutty protesters like the westboro church saying “God hates …”

Because thats simply not true, God hates the act, not the person. As of recently I believe people are born gay, now as for them having sex, that is their choice, not mine. But they ALL know what the bible has to say on it. Its a little hard for them not to, since thats the reason why its mostly illegal for them to get married and alot of gays are usually protested and told that what their doing is an abomination by their family and sometimes friends.

I refuse to go up to any gay person and tell them that they are damning their selves. They might not even be having sex. That is just rude and wrong. And based on what you have written, I’m sure you have told gays they are setting themselves up for damnation, and if thats what you want to do, fine, but I’m not going to randomly go up to somebody and say ‘hey, you’re going to hell, and heres why!’.

To me, that is unbelievably rude. Now if somebody was doing something to hurt another person, thats one thing, but I’m talking about two consenting adults (possibly having sex in private), I wouldn’t even know if they are or aren’t, plus other than their possible next life destination, its not hurting me physically or mentally.

Well, there is some physical problems with it, but I am not going to get onto that in this board because It has to do with how their ‘act’ is hurting them ‘physically’. But I dont think that would be allowed to speak about here, so I’m not getting into that. However it still their choice, some people obviously don’t care about their bodies. How sad.
No one is talking about going up to people and telling them they are going to hell. That is avoiding the point. But you even go a step further by affirming them in their sin and hell-bound behavior, which makes you and anyone else who does so complicit in their damnation. As far as being rude, there are charitable ways of helping people see their sin, but since you are giving us the impression that you are a Christian, then speaking to the point and cutting out the fat should be an acceptable part of the conversation. Unfortunately, too many people pick and choose which parts of Christianity they are going to believe and practice, and those are people who don’t submit to the faith, but want the faith to submit to them. God tried that once and we crucified Him for it. I’m just asking that you cease confusing people about the Christian faith by stating you are Christian and yet arguing for so-called homesexual marriages/unions. With regards to Christianity, You can’t pick and choose which parts you are going to believe and which parts you are simply going to ignore. That is treating the faith as an ideology, and so long as it remains an ideology in a person’s heart, it remains dead and insincere.
 
No one is talking about going up to people and telling them they are going to hell. That is avoiding the point. But you even go a step further by affirming them in their sin and hell-bound behavior, which makes you and anyone else who does so complicit in their damnation. As far as being rude, there are charitable ways of helping people see their sin, but since you are giving us the impression that you are a Christian, then speaking to the point and cutting out the fat should be an acceptable part of the conversation. Unfortunately, too many people pick and choose which parts of Christianity they are going to believe and practice, and those are people who don’t submit to the faith, but want the faith to submit to them. God tried that once and we crucified Him for it. I’m just asking that you cease confusing people about the Christian faith by stating you are Christian and yet arguing for so-called homesexual marriages/unions. With regards to Christianity, You can’t pick and choose which parts you are going to believe and which parts you are simply going to ignore. That is treating the faith as an ideology, and so long as it remains an ideology in a person’s heart, it remains dead and insincere.
I’m not picking and choosing anything.

Actually, I guess I am because I don’t stone people, but aside from that, I am just not going up to a gay person and telling them they’re going to hell. Obviously you do it, so thats your choice. But I’m not doing that to people who I think ‘may’ be gay. Sorry.
 
I’m confused? I thought the church accepted the fact that most gay people were “born” that way… and it is a cross they must bear? To say they chose which sex they are attracted to is bizarre? 🤷 Surely, that is not what is being said here? (no, I am not being sarcastic, I am really asking).
 
I’m confused? I thought the church accepted the fact that most gay people were “born” that way… and it is a cross they must bear? To say they chose which sex they are attracted to is bizarre? 🤷 Surely, that is not what is being said here? (no, I am not being sarcastic, I am really asking).
I used to think it was a choice, but with further research I believe they are born that way due to hormones when they are being made in the womb.

But there are still plenty of people who think they choose it. Ive seen many people post in this website who think they choose it.
 
I’m confused? I thought the church accepted the fact that most gay people were “born” that way… and it is a cross they must bear? To say they chose which sex they are attracted to is bizarre? 🤷 Surely, that is not what is being said here? (no, I am not being sarcastic, I am really asking).
Here is a statement from the Catholic Medical Association:

narth.com/docs/hope.html

Peace,
Ed
 
I’m not picking and choosing anything.

Actually, I guess I am because I don’t stone people, but aside from that, I am just not going up to a gay person and telling them they’re going to hell. Obviously you do it, so thats your choice. But I’m not doing that to people who I think ‘may’ be gay. Sorry.
No, instead of stoning them you are lying to them and telling them its ok, istead of “stoning” them, you are helping them go to hell.
 
Id watch what you say. There are homosexuals on this board and probably would definitely not appreciate what you are saying. I know some homosexuals and they did not choose it. Thats for certain, and if being in love with somebody makes them happy, they will do, it and they have that right…
Scripture teaches that God is Love, not Love is God. The love of God is not disordered. Homosexual love is disordered, and therefore not of God. You show yourself to either not to be a sincere Christian, or someone who is ignorant of their faith. In what you are proposing here is that God and union with Him is not the greatest good, but a person’s supposed happiness, pursuit of one’s own pleasures and gratification, which is not Christianity at all, but hedonistic paganism. As far as rights are concerned, marriage is a sacrament, not a right, a blessing and a vocation from God, not something to twist and distort so as to attempt to justify people’s perversions and disordered passions. Pursuit of homosexual activity is the epitome of selfishness. We are all called to chastity and holiness, regardless of our attractions. Every single human being is born with all the inclinations for all the sins, some to a greater degree than others in this area or that. We do people no favors by lying to them and telling them that their behavior is ok. God sets before all of us a blessing and a curse, if people with same sex attractions would see their lot in life as a blessing, a call to holy celibacy and a deeper union with God, then they would find blessing in the midst of their trials and tribulations. But if they give themselves over to their unrly passions, and this is true for all of humanity whatever our passions are, then they will experience and inherit a curse, specifically, damnation.

You see, in order for a Christian to support a lie such as promoting same-sex unions, one has to distort the truth they have received. And once that lie has been exposed, they have to twist an even more fundamental truth in order to continue to hold their erroneous position. And if they have not humbled themselves and confessed their error and change, then they must continue to further twist and distort any truth in them as the deepening lies continue to become exposed, as happens with all lies eventually. After some time at this twisting game, the person him or herself has become so disfigured morally, their moral compass completely “demagnitized” from the direct rebellion against True North, God’s teaching. It is like a candle wick, with each lie to cover the previous lie the person, the wick, becomes more and more twisted until they find themselved thoroughly wicked, “wick’d”. And if they have continued long enough in this dangerous game of theological contortions, the person is left permanently impenitent, no longer capable of repentence, the sin known as blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. As Father John Hardon once lectured, where there is active homosexuality and those who defend it, there always follows heresy. And this is why, because the person has made themselves an enemy of the truth and their pride keeps them in error, as all sin darkens the intellect and blinds us to God’s will, because sin separates us from God, and repentence brings us back to the loving arms of a Savior who wants us, all of us, those with same sex attractions and those with heterosexual attractions, everyone, to spend eternity with Him.
 
No, instead of stoning them you are lying to them and telling them its ok, istead of “stoning” them, you are helping them go to hell.
I never told a gay person what they were doing was okay. Actually Ive never talked to them about what I thought of their sex life, because I wouldn’t know if they were having sex.
Quit making assumptions. Didn’t I tell you not to reply to me anymore? I am sick of debating about the gays.
 
Scripture teaches that God is Love, not Love is God. The love of God is not disordered. Homosexual love is disordered, and therefore not of God. You show yourself to either not to be a sincere Christian, or someone who is ignorant of their faith. In what you are proposing here is that God and union with Him is not the greatest good, but a person’s supposed happiness, pursuit of one’s own pleasures and gratification, which is not Christianity at all, but hedonistic paganism. As far as rights are concerned, marriage is a sacrament, not a right, a blessing and a vocation from God, not something to twist and distort so as to attempt to justify people’s perversions and disordered passions. Pursuit of homosexual activity is the epitome of selfishness. We are all called to chastity and holiness, regardless of our attractions. Every single human being is born with all the inclinations for all the sins, some to a greater degree than others in this area or that. We do people no favors by lying to them and telling them that their behavior is ok. God sets before all of us a blessing and a curse, if people with same sex attractions would see their lot in life as a blessing, a call to holy celibacy and a deeper union with God, then they would find blessing in the midst of their trials and tribulations. But if they give themselves over to their unrly passions, and this is true for all of humanity whatever our passions are, then they will experience and inherit a curse, specifically, damnation.

You see, in order for a Christian to support a lie such as promoting same-sex unions, one has to distort the truth they have received. And once that lie has been exposed, they have to twist an even more fundamental truth in order to continue to hold their erroneous position. And if they have not humbled themselves and confessed their error and change, then they must continue to further twist and distort any truth in them as the deepening lies continue to become exposed, as happens with all lies eventually. After some time at this twisting game, the person him or herself has become so disfigured morally, their moral compass completely “demagnitized” from the direct rebellion against True North, God’s teaching. It is like a candle wick, with each lie to cover the previous lie the person, the wick, becomes more and more twisted until they find themselved thoroughly wicked, “wick’d”. And if they have continued long enough in this dangerous game of theological contortions, the person is left permanently impenitent, no longer capable of repentence, the sin known as blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. As Father John Hardon once lectured, where there is active homosexuality and those who defend it, there always follows heresy. And this is why, because the person has made themselves an enemy of the truth and their pride keeps them in error, as all sin darkens the intellect and blinds us to God’s will, because sin separates us from God, and repentence brings us back to the loving arms of a Savior who wants us, all of us, those with same sex attractions and those with heterosexual attractions, everyone, to spend eternity with Him.
When did I ever say that I agree with gay sex? When did I ever tell you that I told a gay it was ‘okay’? because I sure as heck never have. You are making false assumptions, and you really need to stop. I have told you that I am done debating about homosexuals and yo keep going on and on and on and on and on!

I am sick of this. Go debate with somebody else already! I am not the only person who has posted in this thread.
 
I’m confused? I thought the church accepted the fact that most gay people were “born” that way… and it is a cross they must bear? To say they chose which sex they are attracted to is bizarre? 🤷 Surely, that is not what is being said here? (no, I am not being sarcastic, I am really asking).
No dailey, thanks for asking the clarifiying question. I am attracted to the opposite sex. Does that mean it is ok for me to have sex outside of marriage, marriage being a sacrament and vocation ordained by God between one man and one woman? It is never ok to let our desires and passions rule us. An attraction, a whim, or even a strong passion is never a justification for sin, and love, perfect and Godly love, is never disordered. The English language does much injustice in framing our discussions on such issues because we only have one word that does not delineate between erotic, filial and godly love, and so we lump everything into one pile and call it love. Love that comes from God is never disordered, that is a theological impossiblity. An attraction is not a justification for sinful choices. We don’t have to give in to our evil desires, of which every human has evil desires. The more one resists them and chooses God, the more one grows in holiness. The homosexual has a wonderful opportunity to transform their struggle into a deep and sincere call to holiness, which is exactly what it is. But Satan wishes them harm because he absolutely hates them, Satan Hates Homosexuals and wants them all to go to hell, and so he lies to them and tells them to give in to their temptations and passions. Any individual who gives themsef over to whatever evil passions that are in them and does not repent and turn back to God is in mortal sin, and therefore cannot inherit the kingdom of God. God loves homosexuals, Satan hates them, and whoever entices homosexuals to continue in sin is doing the work of Satan.
 
I never told a gay person what they were doing was okay. Actually Ive never talked to them about what I thought of their sex life, because I wouldn’t know if they were having sex.
Quit making assumptions. Didn’t I tell you not to reply to me anymore? I am sick of debating about the gays.
You are telling them it is ok by agitating for same sex “unions/marriage.” That is called affirmation, and you are telling them it is ok by doing so.
 
Here you give the green light.
I do not have a problem with gay marriage because I believe people have the right to free will and should be able to do what they want, if it is between the two consenting adults that is not harming anyone else.

I believe gays should have equal rights. They are people too. I am not gay, and so I don’t know what they go through, but for loving the wrong sex? Quite sad if you ask me.

Didn’t I tell you I was done talking about this?
 
Hold up guys, first off I’m not a guy.

Second off, I never said I agree with homosexuality. I know it is wrong, but its also not my business if somebody chooses to participate in it. It really has nothing to do with me.

Also too, just because I’m a Christian doesn’t mean that don’t think people should have free will.

So did you guys even watch the video or the videos by him? If you haven’t then don’t be refuting him if you have not seen his videos. Thanks.
Here again, you separate God’s perfect will for the person’s life, namely eternal salvation, by hiding behind indifference, which is called the “color of law,” meaning if something goes unchallenged, then by the mere action of letting something go by unchallenged, you give your consent.
 
No dailey, thanks for asking the clarifiying question. I am attracted to the opposite sex. Does that mean it is ok for me to have sex outside of marriage, marriage being a sacrament and vocation ordained by God between one man and one woman? It is never ok to let our desires and passions rule us. An attraction, a whim, or even a strong passion is never a justification for sin, and love, perfect and Godly love, is never disordered. The English language does much injustice in framing our discussions on such issues because we only have one word that does not delineate between erotic, filial and godly love, and so we lump everything into one pile and call it love. Love that comes from God is never disordered, that is a theological impossiblity. An attraction is not a justification for sinful choices. We don’t have to give in to our evil desires, of which every human has evil desires. The more one resists them and chooses God, the more one grows in holiness. The homosexual has a wonderful opportunity to transform their struggle into a deep and sincere call to holiness, which is exactly what it is. But Satan wishes them harm because he absolutely hates them, Satan Hates Homosexuals and wants them all to go to hell, and so he lies to them and tells them to give in to their temptations and passions. Any individual who gives themsef over to whatever evil passions that are in them and does not repent and turn back to God is in mortal sin, and therefore cannot inherit the kingdom of God. God loves homosexuals, Satan hates them, and whoever entices homosexuals to continue in sin is doing the work of Satan.
Beautifully said! 👍 My sentiments exactly. I also agree with what I’ve seen many others say: we can never know the state of another’s soul and we should live our lives in the most holy manner possible to bear witness to Christ through our actions to those who would otherwise be ignorant of it.
 
I do not have a problem with gay marriage because I believe people have the right to free will and should be able to do what they want, if it is between the two consenting adults that is not harming anyone else.

I believe gays should have equal rights. They are people too. I am not gay, and so I don’t know what they go through, but for loving the wrong sex? Quite sad if you ask me.

Didn’t I tell you I was done talking about this?
OK, you said you are done, you are done, discussion over. I believe it was over for you before you even came to the discussion board. What were you looking for, people to either support your erroneous position, or to cowardly and negligently look the other way and say to God as Cain did,“am I my brother’s keeper?” You say you are not saying gay sex is ok, but gay so called marriage is? So, what, you think they are going to stop engaging in homesexual acts now that they are “married?” I just don’t understand how you can tell yourself that you aren’t telling gays that homosexual acts are ok by telling the world that homosexuals should be allowed to “marry,” therby giving societal approval to their sinful acts? What you are practicing is called cognitive dissonance and it is a very dangerous game to play with ones sanity and salvation. I pray sincerely, that you rethink this whole position of yours. It is extremely anti-Christian, and I know that you can’t see that right now.
 
Here again, you separate God’s perfect will for the person’s life, namely eternal salvation, by hiding behind indifference, which is called the “color of law,” meaning if something goes unchallenged, then by the mere action of letting something go by unchallenged, you give your consent.
You going to quit responding to me now? I’m done talking about this. 🤷
 
However I have also said I am done debating about the gays. I think we need to get the CAF gays on this thread. They would be better to debate them than somebody who isn’t even gay?

They are the ones that we’re speaking of anyways, are we not?

So don’t be too surprised If i don’t respond anymore, I’m really not in the mood to continue to debate this. For me, its gone on long enough, but feel free to debate others. So I think my response to you up above will be my last. 👍
Sorry to see your departure from this debate - I thought you raised valid points that sincere Catholics should be discussing. Yes, as Catholics, we can all spout the proper scripture passages as we can reiterate the Church’s teaching - and those things aren’t all bad. But sometimes - and I’ve seen it on here as have you - we can be so blind to the individual people whose same sex attraction sometimes causes them more pain and grief than we’ll ever experience. I hate to see the human being get lost in all this. For one who read your posts, it was clear you didn’t advocate or approve of homosexuality or overt acting out of homosexual behaviors…I wish you had been able to have the discussion on the level you probably wanted to have it.

So, again, I’m sorry you’re out of the debate :sad_bye: - but I understand what you’re saying and where this latest decision comes from. This whole topic/thread is so much more complicated and has so many variables, it was never served well by trying to deal with it in stark verses from scripture or in stating over and over the bottom line of Church Teaching. Like I said, IMO, so much of the ‘human’ was missing…

Take care and may God be with you all days!! :yup:
 
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