Can Catholics 'opt out' of an afterlife?

[streetpreacher]

Have to interject again here. The sunday service, the classes, etc. do not make one a true believer, it certainly makes them religious “enough”, but it’s not about practices and tradition and only about practices and tradition, upon the surface, and surface alone.

Remember Paul talking about winning the race, we are in that race in the here and now, there is no option to stop in the middle for a breather, which is what the OP is trying to do. We slide forward, or backwards, there is no middle ground.

Think about it in another way here, where your own child decides they no longer want to be part of your life, how that would hurt you, how you as a parent would feel a great void in your life, and think of you as a child, no longer having your parents in your life, how they surely would be missed. The key element, all of the fluff to the side when it comes to our feeble description of heaven, Love, endless overwhelming, bright, warm, Love, permutating ones being, where ones own heart bursts forth in gratitude, where all is so super completely happy in ones being to the deepest core possible, this is what the OP is trying to OPT out of.

Right now they are playing into the devils hand, where the evil one wants nothing better then to seperate God’s children from the Father, and they are playing into it exactly as to how he wants it. Time to stand up, rise above ones self, to know the game being played here, and how they are being treated in the evil ones’ eye’s in their sick twisted game, and tell him (it) where to go and how far to take it, that you are a follower of Christ, and a child of God and nothing can take that away.

I do beleive, if for some crazy reason one still desires to sleep in heaven, he will allow it, but I can’t see anybody taking that route, outside of perhaps curiosity or nostalga for the times gone past. We will finally have complete and absolute freedom in the next life, we will no longer be bound with the chains that hold us back, we will know God’s love and we will see why he created us, and it’s not to be fumbling around this God forsaken reality we call life on earth.

To the OP, all I can say, Give God a chance to extend the gifts he’s graciously extending to you, if after you receive them, you decide to opt out, then by all means, do so, but until then, do NOT make your decision to do so in this life, you don’t know what you are saying at all.

 

[Pieman333272]

Yeah, but I know what you mean. The whole notion that life has no meaning it this life is all we have just raises the issue of the meaning of the afterlife. Every description I’ve ever eard of what it’s supposed to be like sounds nice but also completely meaningless.

Here is more than a test or meaningless “trailer” for heaven. Here is for material things - things like money, clothes, or the newest Miley Cyrus or Taylor Swift Single. Heaven is for the immaterial things - a stimulating talk with an angel, praising God, and other, completely unimaginably exciting, interesting, fun, and joyous stuff - I always like imagining there will be some awesome new color nobody ever has seen on this world! So, I don’t know why we exist here. But I think it is both as a test and as a way to enjoy the material, but ultimately useless, things in our lives.

 

[user3856530]

Think about it in another way here, where your own child decides they no longer want to be part of your life, how that would hurt you, how you as a parent would feel a great void in your life, and think of you as a child, no longer having your parents in your life, how they surely would be missed. The key element, all of the fluff to the side when it comes to our feeble description of heaven, Love, endless overwhelming, bright, warm, Love, permutating ones being, where ones own heart bursts forth in gratitude, where all is so super completely happy in ones being to the deepest core possible, this is what the OP is trying to OPT out of.

This is different to ceasing to exist. If something ceases to exist, it’s like it never existed, so in the example of the child, the parents would never even know the child existed and so would not miss them.

Something else I was thinking about. It’s been mentioned more than once in this thread that the soul is eternal and can not be destroyed, even by God.

Well if my soul has always existed, then that means that people do not in fact have free will. My creation would have been pre-determined. However, Catholic doctrine suggests that we do have free will. This must mean that my soul was created either at my conception or some time afterwards. So my soul has a start date.

If my soul has a start date, then it can also have an end date.

 

[jmcrae]

Well if my soul has always existed, then that means that people do not in fact have free will. My creation would have been pre-determined.

Your soul has not always existed. It began to exist when you were conceived. You were created in the image of God, though, which is why it is eternal. If you had been created an animal, then your soul would cease to exist at the end of your physical life. Of course, you would also not have the capacity for reason, or self-awareness.

However, Catholic doctrine suggests that we do have free will. This must mean that my soul was created either at my conception or some time afterwards. So my soul has a start date.

If my soul has a start date, then it can also have an end date.

Your soul does have a start date - the moment of your conception. But it is created in the image of God, to be eternal, so it does not have an end date.

 

[4Horsemen]

Yeah, but I know what you mean. The whole notion that life has no meaning it this life is all we have just raises the issue of the meaning of the afterlife. Every description I’ve ever eard of what it’s supposed to be like sounds nice but also completely meaningless.

The whole purpose of our existence is union with God, which won’t be completely achieved until we reach Heaven. Many of the great saints have very “close encounters” though with God and the spiritual realm.

Read about this young girl who had visions of Heaven and painted pictures of Jesus and Heaven, even though she said there are so many more vivid colors there than on this earth.

dignoscentia.com/2010/03/02/self-taught-girl-paints-heaven/

 

[Leela]

…Heaven is for the immaterial things - a stimulating talk with an angel, praising God, and other, completely unimaginably exciting, interesting, fun, and joyous stuff - I always like imagining there will be some awesome new color nobody ever has seen on this world!

There can be nothing new, stimulating, or interestingt in Heaven. Where everything is already perfect, nothing can ever change.

 

[user3856530]

Your soul does have a start date - the moment of your conception. But it is created in the image of God, to be eternal, so it does not have an end date.

A start date is a physical attribute. Time is a component of space-time.
It’s like saying that a soul has mass.

 

[streetpreacher]

There can be nothing new, stimulating, or interestingt in Heaven. Where everything is already perfect, nothing can ever change.

Read about the new earth, the new heavens, it’s literally, beyond the 3 dimensions we currently reside in, as in, there are more dimensional planes of existance, of creation itself that as of yet, is to be explored, much less reasoned with. We take into account, how the pit is sealed up forever, it can only be forever if it’s thrust into another, or stuck within the current dimensional planes, making it totally impossible to transcend beyond, and to the place and existance man, God, and the angels will exist in the next life.

There is nothing at all we can possibly do to describe it, it’s beyond our abilities to even attempt it, even our speculation is totally no where near what will be. Boredom itself would set in if we were stuck in the old, obviously he has something else far better in store, it’s not just an optimized existance that we can understand, it’s beyond that and beyond description.

 

[PJM]

=user3856530;7128161]I can see two problems with this.

First of all, if I do not want eternal bliss, but it is forced upon me, then it cannot be eternal bliss. My mind ‘retains’ when my soul goes to Heaven, so I haven’t changed to an entity that does want eternal bliss.

The second problem is that what happens to those people on Earth who are no longer sane? - or their mind has been permanently altered or damaged?

***As to your unusual desire:

Be careful what you ask for. If you choose hell over heaven; it’s easy never Confess your sins, nver tell God your sorry.***

Th second issue is a God judgement. Very likely they would be judged on there actions while they had there faculaties.

If Insane from birth an neverthreless BAPTIZEd, as they are incapable of sin; they wouls go to heaven.

 

[Pieman333272]

There can be nothing new, stimulating, or interestingt in Heaven. Where everything is already perfect, nothing can ever change.

I meant compared to Earth/Material Life. And since Heaven is probably infinite, there is no need for new things there anyway.

 

[jmcrae]

There can be nothing new, stimulating, or interestingt in Heaven. Where everything is already perfect, nothing can ever change.

We will be like little children, fascinated over and over and over again by the same thing, for all eternity.

 

[4Horsemen]

Christians unite their deaths to Christ and view it as the way to Him and an entrance into eternal life. Death puts an end to our human life as the time where we either accept or reject the divine grace manifested in Christ. Those who die in God’s grace and friendship are purified to live forever with Him. They see God “face to face.”

Heaven is perfection itself, but what is perfect does not become dull and boring because that would be an impossibility, a contradiction in terms, a lacking in understanding of the idea of perfection.

Since there is no time in Heaven as on earth, we would not be impeded by it. In fact, we will be able to comprehend many “moments” at one take. We could be partakers in viewing and rejoicing over the Resurrection as well as the Coronation of the Blessed Virgin and all the major feast days of the Church. When we receive our bodily forms back (in a perfect state, yet recognizable) we will have the ability of bilocation (and even more, but we won’t be able to be everywhere at once as God is–there are actual places in heaven) so that we have greater freedom than on earth.

Just considering Jesus after the Resurrection: He could pass through walls (the Upper Room), eat fish, rise upward . . . we’ll have resurrected bodies.

NOW WHO WOULDN’T WANT ALL THAT GOOD STUFF?

I would suggest that it is a grievous temptation from the evil one to not want any part of it as another poster said. Or, maybe, the OP is playing the Devil’s Advocate???

 

[inocente]

We will be like little children, fascinated over and over and over again by the same thing, for all eternity.

Rather than a place, isn’t heaven supposed to be union with God? If so, we lose ourselves in God, we are one with God, we no longer exist apart … we no longer exist.

Somehow that sounds lot more appealing. I mean perpetual sightseeing tours, cruises and basket weaving could be fun for the first billion years, but after that might it not get a bit repetitive?

 

[Tenofovir]

I sometimes feel depressed, but I write this with a joyful heart. I’ve had an excellent day today, maybe a bit too hedonistic!

So why do I not want an afterlife?

No. I would not want that. You can’t appreciate happiness without sadness. You need both.

Hi,

It may be that you are depressed or dysthymic. Perhaps you should see a psychiatrist?

Secondly, we cannot imagine the afterlife, we have no frame of reference. It isn’t like present life but without pain and unhappiness and eternal - it will be different and infinitely better. Your current concerns will become irrelevant.

I suggest you listen to some of Peter Kreeft’s talks:
Heaven
peterkreeft.com/audio/35_heaven.htm

The rest, just download them all and listen to all of them They’re all free. The Copyright Cops won’t go after you.
peterkreeft.com/audio.htm

Kreeft says he struggled with the concept of heaven as a youngster because he found the idea of an endless church service to be something not very exciting.

 

[Leela]

We will be like little children, fascinated over and over and over again by the same thing, for all eternity.

and this sounds like a good thing to you???

 

[Tenofovir]

and this sounds like a good thing to you???

What he means is that you won’t be fascinated by simple things like a young child or a kitten playing with a ball, but your awe will be like that of a young child discovering the wonders of the world. We can’t know what this will be like because we have no frame of reference. We cannot imagine this.

Most dedicated scientists are filled in awe by the work they do, so much so that they often skip out on religion, family life and other things and get buried in work for little pay. This even becomes hedonistic and a type of idolatry. You’d be amazed by the simple yet complex of findings which amaze their discoverers. Someone discovers a new subtype of receptor and they become like a child, filled with joy and wonder.

 

[4Horsemen]

One thing I think we’ll be able to do is to explore the Heavens, meaning the whole universe. Look out Mr. Spock and Star Trek; look out Star Wars, R2D2 and CP30! We, Christians, are coming! We’re going to zip through the black holes dark matter, anti-matter and all the other good stuff we’ve been wanting to see. I’m sure God will want to show us around. We won’t even need a spaceship. Just a guardian angel will do. Hallelujah!!!

 

[jmcrae]

and this sounds like a good thing to you???

Yes.

 

[user3856530]

We will be like little children, fascinated over and over and over again by the same thing, for all eternity.

I still find new things to discover on Earth. Yesterday I watched documentary about feral cats and how they teach their kittens to survive. Then I found a new kind of pear, which is quite large and bitter tasting. I’m wondering if it need to be cooked before eating.

Some of the posts here remind me of the saying:
“In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king”

It seems people don’t seem to appreciate just how amazing what they have here on Earth really is. They want more.

I would suggest that could be ungrateful, greedy and unnecessary.

 

[Nooj]

It seems people don’t seem to appreciate just how amazing what they have here on Earth really is. They want more.

So what if heaven is like what a mortal life is like.Would you want it?