Can Catholics participate in yoga?

  • Thread starter Thread starter dcaputo
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
The 25th of December was never a pagan festival. The 21st is midwinter. However, the 25th is 9 months after the Annunciation.

The early Christinas were tortured by pagans. Why would they adopt their festivals? It’s a Protestant slur.
 
It was the feast of Sol Invictus, but pretty late, from the third or forth century AD on, and the Chronography of 354 names its date as the 25 december.
So it is no “Protestant slur”, but certainly not as important as some anti-christmas people want to make it.
 
Yes, I had read that too. And then I read a counter argument by someone who took the trouble to go back to the source documents and to the history of that feast.

I recall he said that none of the Roman festivals fell on the 25th, neither Sol nor Sol Invictus.

As well as a reform of the reform we badly need a counter-revisionism. It’s like people saying that ancient people’s thought the world was flat bede.org.uk/flatearth.htm

I think it’s an idea that hipsters want to believe: they know better than those ignorant old-timers or their simple, pious brethern.
 
ALL forms of yoga are pagan theistically based with the single exception of Sāmkhya-yoga; which is actually atheistic in nature; denying the existence of a God, rather it focuses on the relationship between consciousness and matter. However, ALL forms of yoga including Sāmkhya-yoga are tantric, i.e., doctrinally focused. So, in this light, all forms of yoga should be avoided since they are all idolatrous in one form or another.
All certain postures or gestures from religious activities claim to be ‘doctrinally focused’. That doesn’t mean they cannot be separated from doctrine. It’s nice for you to cut, paste, paraphrase and all but this does not address the simple logic that certain postures are in of themselves hollow (just like symbols and sounds are inherently devoid of value). It’s the meaning we attach and that attachment is not set in stone.

Following your logic, I practice Shintoism every time I put my two hands together in weird hand signs… even though in truth I’m pretending to be a ninja. Nin-nin de gozaru!
 
I found this a very relevant verse from 1 Corinthians 8
1 Now about food sacrificed to idols: We know that “We all possess knowledge.” But knowledge puffs up while love builds up. 2 Those who think they know something do not yet know as they ought to know. 3 But whoever loves God is known by God.[a]
4 So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that “An idol is nothing at all in the world” and that “There is no God but one.” 5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
7 But not everyone possesses this knowledge. Some people are still so accustomed to idols that when they eat sacrificial food they think of it as having been sacrificed to a god, and since their conscience is weak, it is defiled. 8 But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do.
9 Be careful, however, that the exercise of your rights does not become a stumbling block to the weak. 10 For if someone with a weak conscience sees you, with all your knowledge, eating in an idol’s temple, won’t that person be emboldened to eat what is sacrificed to idols? 11 So this weak brother or sister, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. 12 When you sin against them in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. 13 Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother or sister to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause them to fall.
Paul is saying that we know there is only one Lord and food sacrificed to idols in meaningless to us, and it is what comes out of the mouth that defiles, not what goes in (Jesus said this in Matthew 15), so there is no sin in eating meat sacrificed to idols. Christians are free to eat, but he also goes on to say that some people for whatever reason (okay, he gave a reason, lack of knowledge of the faith) can’t separate the fact that idols are not gods and have no power so the food sacrificed to them is meaningless so that if they do partake it becomes a stumbling block to them. SO if that person sees YOU eating the meat, they will as well and in love we should not do that.

This applies directly to this conversation. There is NOTHING wrong with a christian practicing yoga as long as they know there are NO gods but our Lord Jesus Christ and they are simply exercising (just was early Christians were simply eating) but some people can’t separate out the belief because they are so steeped in the belief that yoga HAS to be worship to gods just like eating meat sacrificed to idols gave that idol power someone (even though its powerless) so it can be a stumbling block for them.

What does that mean for us? We are free to practice yoga for health and vitality as long as we aren’t worshiping false gods. However, if you have someone around you prone to doing that, or can’t do yoga without thinking of eastern mysticism, then don’t make them do yoga and don’t do it around them.

Besides, doing yoga in your own home to tapes is WAY more comfortable 😉
 
The 25th of December was never a pagan festival. The 21st is midwinter. However, the 25th is 9 months after the Annunciation.

The early Christinas were tortured by pagans. Why would they adopt their festivals? It’s a Protestant slur.
Yes, I am a Protestant slurring who??? Why would’nt Protestants change the date of Christmas then?

Yes, that is one of the reasons the date was chosen, that it may have been the date falling 9 months after the Annnunciation… It was also chosen on purpose to distract people from pagan practices.
However, who is sure even about the year Christ was born.
 
All certain postures or gestures from religious activities claim to be ‘doctrinally focused’. That doesn’t mean they cannot be separated from doctrine. It’s nice for you to cut, paste, paraphrase and all but this does not address the simple logic that certain postures are in of themselves hollow (just like symbols and sounds are inherently devoid of value). It’s the meaning we attach and that attachment is not set in stone.

Following your logic, I practice Shintoism every time I put my two hands together in weird hand signs… even though in truth I’m pretending to be a ninja. Nin-nin de gozaru!
Exactly. BTW, do you wear full ninja garb when you pretend to be one.
 
First of all, I would like to say that I am very sorry about your pain and infirmity. You are in my prayers.

I do not think all your facts about yoga are necessarily accurate. or complete. I do not pretend to be an expert on yoga and its development in Hinduism and Buddhism. I am not sure about your reference to a Buddhist god, there was a Patanjali, a sage. Buddha did not refer to God as such. He never said he was God either. I do not believe there are gods in Buddhism.

Anyway all the above is irrelevant. We do not have to know or learn the antecedents, the history and the different versions/schools/systems except as scholars or out of pure interest. What we are saying okay to for Catholics, is just a system of poses and postures for health and well being without any non Christian religious or spritual aspects.
Hello Severus68,

Thank you very much; I very much appreciate you keeping me in your prayers. May God bless and keep you in this life and in the one to come. :hug3:

In regards to the information in my post; I do not know what to say; the data was all pulled directly from my Encyclopedia Americana, (1999 edition), with the exception of a little extra data pertaining to Sāmkhya-yoga, which came from Wikipedia. There were absolutely NO embellishments from myself; since I know next to nothing about yoga, there was nothing I could add, even if I had wanted to. If you believe what was said to be in error, I suppose the only response I can give is to suggest penning a letter to Encyclopedia Americana, (Grolier Publishing), (or contact Wikipedia).

Thank you again for your prayers; you will be in mine. :heaven:

Oremus pro invicem,

Sean C. :knight2:
 
f you believe what was said to be in error, I suppose the only response I can give is to suggest penning a letter to Encyclopedia Americana, (Grolier Publishing), (or contact Wikipedia).
I need not be the nth person to point out the fallibility of wikipedia. As to Encyclopedia however, do note that it’s only basic general information. Plenty of books regarding symbolism and semiotics tend to go a little deeper than what you just pulled out. The things I’ve said have their basis in modern theory, I assure you.
Exactly. BTW, do you wear full ninja garb when you pretend to be one.
Not really. Once I have a bit of cosplay money though, I just might. 😛
 
Hello Everyone,

Just to reiterate, 98.5% of my earlier post emanated from E.A.; only around two sentences came from Wikipedia, (which I know has a questionable reputation). One of the more telling lines: that all forms of yoga are theistic in nature came directly from the E.A., (which I consider a rock solid resource; albeit a general one). I believe E.A.’s assertion that all forms of yoga are theistically based with the single exception of Sāmkhya-yoga, (which is atheistic- according to Wikipedia), is a solid fact and contains no ambiguity.

However, suppose yoga is a benign pursuit as many of you claim; but then again, suppose that the criticisms against it are correct and it is indeed offensive to God. There does seem to be enough credible data out there that would suggest this is indeed possible. Let us say there is just a 10% chance the criticisms against yoga are valid; why take such a chance? Is yoga so important to you that you would be willing to choose it over God and risk even a 10% chance of offending Him? Why do that deliberately? Isn’t the daily battle with sin wearisome enough without adding to it through (possibly) offensive pursuits?

Even completely benign pursuits can become hazardous, e.g., I collect fountain pens and inks for an avocation; a hobby that bears absolutely no stain of religious criticism or indictment; yet, even this harmless pursuit can be prove dangerous. When I find myself distracted by these things, putting visits to FPN or pen/ink dealer websites before my daily prayers, (which do get said, but sometimes AFTER I’ve been to FPN, etc.), or I start putting the purchase of more pens or inks BEFORE giving alms; then I know it is time to put the brakes on and abstain from the hobby for a couple of days to re-focus on what REALLY matters. . . God and His Kingdom.

I encourage all of you to investigate this subject deeper; especially those of you who practice yoga; since I do not practice it, the subject is essentially irrelevant to me; except for what I believed to be an act of Christian mercy in making all of you aware of yoga’s potentially idolatrous themes to the best of my limited abilities.

The final decision naturally lies with all of you; I am going to bow out of this thread now because I have expressed my thoughts on the subject as clearly as I know how; you will all be in my prayers, (if I can remember). 🙂 I encourage all of you to seek out the counsel of an “orthodox” priest, (if you can find one in your area), and to pray over this subject and seek out Our Father’s guidance; if it is done with an open sincere, pure heart; the answer will be revealed to you. I am not 110% sure what the answer is; although I do think that if something looks, sounds and acts like a duck- it is usually a duck. 😃

I guess what it boils down to at the end of the day, is we choose either a blessing or a curse; we choose God or we choose something other than God. I always try to choose as many blessings as I can because heaven knows I’ve chosen enough curses throughout my life. 😉

May God bless and keep you all in this life and in the one to come. :heaven:

Oremus pro invicem, (Let us pray for one another),

Sean C. :knight2:
 
However, suppose yoga is a benign pursuit as many of you claim; but then again, suppose that the criticisms against it are correct and it is indeed offensive to God. There does seem to be enough credible data out there that would suggest this is indeed possible. Let us say there is just a 10% chance the criticisms against yoga are valid; why take such a chance? Is yoga so important to you that you would be willing to choose it over God and risk even a 10% chance of offending Him?
If everyone in the human race didn’t do anything for fear of even just 1% of doing something wrong or something going wrong, we would never have progressed. :rolleyes:
 
If everyone in the human race didn’t do anything for fear of even just 1% of doing something wrong or something going wrong, we would never have progressed. :rolleyes:
LW,

There is no sin in things going wrong; there is sin in doing something that is wrong. BTW, a lot of our so-called progress is far more regressive than progressive.
  • Sean
 
There is no sin in things going wrong; there is sin in doing something that is wrong. BTW, a lot of our so-called progress is far more regressive than progressive.
Right, I suppose we should all be going back to asking priests to cure medical diseases with holy water and avoid autopsy in fear of desecrating the dead. :rolleyes:
 
Hello Everyone,

Just to reiterate, 98.5% of my earlier post emanated from E.A.; only around two sentences came from Wikipedia, (which I know has a questionable reputation). One of the more telling lines: that all forms of yoga are theistic in nature came directly from the E.A., (which I consider a rock solid resource; albeit a general one). I believe E.A.’s assertion that all forms of yoga are theistically based with the single exception of Sāmkhya-yoga, (which is atheistic- according to Wikipedia), is a solid fact and contains no ambiguity.
Well, it’s a bit muddled, at least as you repeat it. “Yoga” can mean at least two things other than the common meaning of “hatha yoga” (a set of postures designed to aid in meditation). It can mean one of the four ways to God in classical Hinduism: knowledge, meditation (which is where hatha yoga comes in as a prelude to meditation), action, and devotion.

Or it can mean one of the six schools (“darshanas”) of Hindu philosophy. Samkhya is another school. The six schools are traditionally grouped into pairs–each pair consists of one school (perhaps better understood as discipline or subdivision) that provides the groundwork for the other. Samkhya and Yoga are such a group. Samkhya gives the account of reality on which the classical Yoga school of philosophy builds. The difference is that Samkhya is atheistic (i.e., it doesn’t posit a divine source of reality and a divine being plays no direct role in it as far as I know), while Yoga (in the sense of the classical school of philosophy) does posit a divine Person (Ishvara) as the focus of meditation. However, Yoga builds on the dualism of Samkhya, in which there are two eternal principles: Purusha (spirit or personality) and Prakriti (matter). The difference is that Yoga philosophy understands Purusha to be ultimately represented by a divine Person–meditation on this divine Person helps one’s own “purusha” become liberated from prakriti.

Yoga philosophy developed the techniques of hatha yoga as a way of helping one do this.

However, Vedanta philosophy, by far the most influential and important of the traditional Hindu philosophies, absorbed Yoga methodology and directed it toward its own philosophical goal of union with Brahman, which in Vedanta philosophy is the sole source of all reality (there are different schools of Vedanta thought with different understandings of how Brahman/Ishvara relates to individual beings and to matter).

So you’re right that Yoga is theistic, but the original Yoga philosophy is theistic in a rather different way from Vedanta, and different versions of Vedanta have rather different conceptions of God and human relationship with Him. So I think the attempts of conservative Christians to argue that hatha yoga presupposes a *particular *understanding of God which is incompatible with Christianity don’t hold up.

My biggest problem with this whole discussion is the premise that if yoga is “spiritual” it is bad, but it’s good only if it’s just “stretching.” This strikes me as theologically unorthodox. It implies that all the “spiritual” elements of other “religions” are bad, which makes no sense and appears to me (admittedly, I’m a non-Catholic) to contradict Lumen Gentium and other monuments of Catholic teaching. (Yes, I know I’m on the Trad forum and many of you guys don’t care for Vatican II:D)

If Catholics recognize that all religions contain elements of truth and goodness, what could possibly be a nobler task than learning to appropriate these elements?

**
However, suppose yoga is a benign pursuit as many of you claim; but then again, suppose that the criticisms against it are correct and it is indeed offensive to God. There does seem to be enough credible data out there that would suggest this is indeed possible. Let us say there is just a 10% chance the criticisms against yoga are valid; why take such a chance? Is yoga so important to you that you would be willing to choose it over God and risk even a 10% chance of offending Him? Why do that deliberately? Isn’t the daily battle with sin wearisome enough without adding to it through (possibly) offensive pursuits?
**The view of Christianity implicit in this paragraph is to utterly (to use your own word) wearisome that I find it hard to understand why anyone would espouse it. What evidence do you have for such an awful God as you seem to believe in? Why do you think you have to guess what is or is not pleasing to God? Why not follow what is true and good to the best of your knowledge and trust that this search can never be displeasing to the God who is all Truth and Goodness?

Why on earth do you think that Christianity is about keeping your head down and avoiding ways of displeasing God and saving your own soul? Where is Roman 8 and the groaning of creation? Where is the teaching of the Fathers about the victory of Christ? Where is the joy and hope that Christians generally claim accompanies our religion?

In the awful event that the only two options were your version of Christianity or atheism, I’d have to be an atheist. And if someone were, in error, to think that this was the case and choose atheism, I think the true God would be honored by such a choice.

Your teaching amounts to saying that Christ has not risen and is not Lord. It is a denial of the Faith. It is a form of unbelief cloaking itself in the guise of piety.

I hope that my strong words will free you from any sense that I am a conventional “liberal” concerned with offense and sensitivity and drivel of that sort. I am concerned with truth, as I know you are. I think your version of Christianity is false and destructive.

Edwin
 
I was told during my bible study today that practicing yoga is forbidden by the Catholic Church and that it opens the body/soul to demons. How is this possible if no deities are praised/spoken about and all I am doing is stretching and praying silently?
I would not participate in yoga. The exercises are based on Hindu spirituality. Fr John Hardon said that we can’t separate the exercises from the spiritual principles. Also some of the exercises might have been initially used in Hindu worship… and they do not believe in one God, but in many gods and goddesses and have idols. All this could potentially be related to demons so I would stay away from it. I read an (Eastern Orthodox) book in which a man was involved in yoga and Hindu spirituality very heavily, and eventually became possessed. He was delivered from possession at a monastery.
 
I would not participate in yoga. The exercises are based on Hindu spirituality. Fr John Hardon said that we can’t separate the exercises from the spiritual principles. Also some of the exercises might have been initially used in Hindu worship… and they do not believe in one God, but in many gods and goddesses and have idols. All this could potentially be related to demons so I would stay away from it. I read an (Eastern Orthodox) book in which a man was involved in yoga and Hindu spirituality very heavily, and eventually became possessed. He was delivered from possession at a monastery.
Those who really believe they can “catch” demons from participating in exercise should definitely keep away from that form of exercise - the rest of us will happily go along reciting the rosary, practicing exercises that keep our bodies limber and not looking for evil around every corner.
 
I would not participate in yoga. The exercises are based on Hindu spirituality. Fr John Hardon said that we can’t separate the exercises from the spiritual principles. Also some of the exercises might have been initially used in Hindu worship… and they do not believe in one God, but in many gods and goddesses and have idols. All this could potentially be related to demons so I would stay away from it. I read an (Eastern Orthodox) book in which a man was involved in yoga and Hindu spirituality very heavily, and eventually became possessed. He was delivered from possession at a monastery.
I’ll post this again:
1 Now about food sacrificed to idols: We know that “We all possess knowledge.” But knowledge puffs up while love builds up. 2 Those who think they know something do not yet know as they ought to know. 3 But whoever loves God is known by God.[a]
4 So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that “An idol is nothing at all in the world” and that “There is no God but one.” 5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
7 But not everyone possesses this knowledge. Some people are still so accustomed to idols that when they eat sacrificial food they think of it as having been sacrificed to a god, and since their conscience is weak, it is defiled. 8 But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do.
9 Be careful, however, that the exercise of your rights does not become a stumbling block to the weak. 10 For if someone with a weak conscience sees you, with all your knowledge, eating in an idol’s temple, won’t that person be emboldened to eat what is sacrificed to idols? 11 So this weak brother or sister, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. 12 When you sin against them in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. 13 Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother or sister to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause them to fall.
Paul is saying that we know there is only one Lord and food sacrificed to idols in meaningless to us, and it is what comes out of the mouth that defiles, not what goes in (Jesus said this in Matthew 15), so there is no sin in eating meat sacrificed to idols. Christians are free to eat, but he also goes on to say that some people for whatever reason (okay, he gave a reason, lack of knowledge of the faith) can’t separate the fact that idols are not gods and have no power so the food sacrificed to them is meaningless so that if they do partake it becomes a stumbling block to them. SO if that person sees YOU eating the meat, they will as well and in love we should not do that.

This applies directly to this conversation. There is NOTHING wrong with a christian practicing yoga as long as they know there are NO gods but our Lord Jesus Christ and they are simply exercising (just was early Christians were simply eating) but some people can’t separate out the belief because they are so steeped in the belief that yoga HAS to be worship to gods just like eating meat sacrificed to idols gave that idol power someone (even though its powerless) so it can be a stumbling block for them.

What does that mean for us? We are free to practice yoga for health and vitality as long as we aren’t worshiping false gods. However, if you have someone around you prone to doing that, or can’t do yoga without thinking of eastern mysticism, then don’t make them do yoga and don’t do it around them.

Besides, doing yoga in your own home to tapes is WAY more comfortable
 
Since people have gotten themselves in a theological knot over the word “yoga”, can we just call it stretching exercises and relaxed breathing done to whatever music that we like (oldies, classical, Gregorian chant, etc) or focus on the Rosary while doing our “stretching exercised” or “relaxed breathing”? Would that settle the debate or would someone worry themselves into more knots because we were stretching, breathing, and maintaining poses that might possibly be used to worship some pagan deity? 🤷
I agree with you. 🙂
 
I would not participate in yoga. The exercises are based on Hindu spirituality. Fr John Hardon said that we can’t separate the exercises from the spiritual principles.
Modern semiotics would disagree with you and I’d take an expert take on the subject over that of a priest who isn’t.

Following your logic, I practice Shinto every time I do these with my hands.


I read an (Eastern Orthodox) book in which a man was involved in yoga and Hindu spirituality very heavily, and eventually became possessed. He was delivered from possession at a monastery.
Well I do the above hand signs every now and then for the lulz. How come I’m not possessed?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top