Can Catholics Profess that it is Christ Alone Who Saves?

[Tantum_ergo]

I know what the CC says and I know that no matter what church is in question, there are varying thoughts, practices and many times beliefs. Catholics are not immune from this just as we are not.

You mean that individuals in any church --even an Anglican church–can be aware that their Church teaches X but choose to defy the teaching personally?

Or do you think that your fellow Anglican in the pew who is uncomfortable with women’s ordination is just on the ‘Anglican’ spectrum with your other fellow Anglican who is all for same sex marriage and abortion ‘if necessary’. . .

But that if those two people happened to be “Roman” Catholics, somehow their statements would ‘prove’ that the Catholic Church didn’t **really **teach what the catechism ‘claims’, because the fact that some Catholics ‘believed’ differently (or did not accept a teaching) was proof that the Church did have **different **beliefs after all?

See, your question isn’t so simple as you thought. Your own understanding of what you might** think** about 'people who claim to be Catholics saying different things" and how that relates to Catholic teachings (Magesterium) has a bearing on why you may have asked the question. And your own understanding of your Anglican faith and that (perhaps) certain areas are so ‘fluid’ that two different people can claim opposing beliefs and you can ‘accept them’ **both **as ‘real Anglican teaching’, would, if you did believe this, perhaps make you think Catholics did the same.

We don’t.

 

[Contarini]

Knowing exactly how it is we are to be saved is one of the most important questions I could ever think of.

Isn’t that a Pelagian assumption?

Since we don’t save ourselves, why is it so important to know how we are saved?
If I’m the driver of the car, then I need to understand how the car works. If I’m a passenger, not so much.
Note: I’m not saying that the question is unimportant, only that it’s very far from the most important question we should be asking as Christians.

Calvin rightly responded to Sadoleto that the glory of God should be our first priority, ahead of personal salvation.

Edwin

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Let me just say that I am not predisposed to make assumptions and utter stereotypical rhetoric about Catholics. I know more about Catholicism than most Catholics in church on Sunday morning (or Saturday night). I asked an honest question in which nobody has yet given a Catechism backed answer to. Catholicism professes Mary to be co-redemptrix of souls and co-mediatrix with Christ which would make Jesus not soley the redeemer of souls and Mary a mediator with Christ. Is this not correct?

First, please cite the paragraph from the Catechism which states exactly what you have stated /claimed above. Show where the catechism states that coredemptrix and comediatrix would not make Jesus ‘solely’ the redeemer and mediator that He is mentioned as being (in the catechism). Hey you have the catechism, you’ve read it and know it. . .so where is it?

Also --ahem you ‘know’ more about Catholicism than ‘most’ Catholics? Wow, what a sweeping generalization of Catholics and what an ‘elevation’ of your own learning. Is this meant to present you as some ‘authority’ on Catholicism based solely on your own ‘word?’ Exactly what are your credentials?

 

[KathleenGee]

Dosdoc…

Where did the Catholics get the idea about confession?

The Bible has Pentecost following the Last Supper and the day of the Resurrection.

Christ instituted the Eucharist and His priesthood and it being the foundation of the Church at the Last Supper. Then on the evening of the Resurrection, He appeared to His disciples, the first priests and said in John20:23, “If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

The priests are Christ’s chosen and consecrated representatives. In James 5:16, it says, “Therefore confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed.”

The early name for the priesthood was “presbyter”.

There is another sacrament, the Anointing of the Sick or Extreme Unction. In James 5:14-15 it says, “Is anyone among you sick? He should summon the presbyters of the church with oil in the name of the Lord, and the prayer of faith will save the sick person, and the Lord will raise him up. If he has committed any sins, he will be forgiven.”

Baptism is a sacrament that not only incorporates us into the Body of Christ, but provides us the forgiveness of sin. St Peter said in Acts 2:38, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins.:

The rite of Baptism is a Catholic rite and people in other denominations are baptizing their members into the mystical body of Christ His church.

Only a priest/presbyter can administer the sacrament of Penance (confession) and the Anointing of the Sick. A layperson can baptize with form, matter and intent in case of an emergency.

 

[KathleenGee]

The entire construct of Catholicism is that Jesus, lived, died and rose from the dead.

Go to Catholic Mass and listen to the words of the liturgy and you will understand our faith.

We are saved by grace…many seek God and cannot find Him. We have the grace of faith.
Jesus is the Messiah…the beginning of the Eucharistic Liturgy, the Sanctus is prayed to show our honor and recognition of Christ and Who He is to us and to the Heavenly Father.

All our gospel readings, the epistles, the inference of the coming of the Lord, the Messiah…

Of course we believe it is Christ Who saved us from our sins…it is through Jesus Christ that the Heavenly Father created the Universe…

 

[hizstory]

Thank you. I’m well aware of what the Catechism says. I was interested in hearing what some folks’ responses would be.

I’m afraid that when you ask what Catholics believe, you must rely on the Catechism and not the responses of the “folks.” Many lay Catholics are not well educated in their own faith and as a result can at times give answers to such questions that mislead non-Catholics about the teachings of the Catholic Church. As a convert from and Evangelical Fundamentalist background, I’m well aware of how people take responses from less educated Catholics as PROOF of what the Church really teaches. Regardless of what individual Catholics say they believe, what the Church believes is laid out in the Catechism.

Yours in Christ,

 

[Nicea325]

As an Anglican, I profess that it is by Christ alone that one is granted Salvation. Do Catholics profess this same thing?

Okay,but are you assuming or have been taught we do not believe that through God’s graces alone we are not saved?

 

[Mark77]

As an Anglican, I profess that it is by Christ alone that one is granted Salvation. Do Catholics profess this same thing?

Your question is like asking “Does a mother lover her baby?”

** "How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it." (CCC 846)

“Salvation comes from God alone; but because we receive the life of faith through the Church, she is our mother: “We believe the Church as the mother of our new birth, and not in the Church as if she were the author of our salvation.” Because she is our mother, she is also our teacher in the faith.” (CCC 169)

" Our salvation flows from God’s initiative of love for us, because “he loved us and sent his Son to be the expiation for our sins” (1 Jn 4:10). “God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself” (2 Cor 5:19)." (CCC 620)

Search the Catechism of the Catholic Church here; scborromeo.org/ccc.htm
**
Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

mark

 

[Cranmer2010]

OK, so there is really no debate.

Isn’t the simple answer you are looking for ?..I am saved by the Blood of Christ and I trust Him alone for my salvation.
I am rather curious to the reason for what seems to be a bated question, forgive me if I’m out of line. Peace, Carlan

There are tons of baited questions being asked here on CAF mostly to Protestants, but this isn’t one of them.

 

[Cranmer2010]

It’s not really correct, even though it sounds like it should be! The wording of co-mediatrix and co-redemptrix are really bad. What is simply means is:

“co” in this case means “with” or “cooperated with”, so:

Mary was “with” our Redeemer and cooperated with our Redeemer and she was “with” our Mediator, or cooperated with our Mediator. That’s how I’ve heard Bishops, Priests, and other theologians explain it, and they all say the co-redemptrix, co-mediatrix is a badly way to word it as well. In other words, Jesus IS our sole Redeemer, and our sole Mediator. Mary was with Him and cooperated with Him.

I hope this helps!

My problem with that is that Scripture tells us that there is no other name than Christ by which we are saved, so why does Mary or anyone else have to be mentioned in this aspect. We all who are saved cooperate with Christ, not as part of our Salvation, but because of it.

 

[Cranmer2010]

QUOTE=Tantum ergo;6945143]You mean that individuals in any church --even an Anglican church–can be aware that their Church teaches X but choose to defy the teaching personally?

Yep, same as your Catholic church

Or do you think that your fellow Anglican in the pew who is uncomfortable with women’s ordination is just on the ‘Anglican’ spectrum with your other fellow Anglican who is all for same sex marriage and abortion ‘if necessary’.

. . You are stereotyping all Anglicans to be like a small handful. Your whole predisposition is a false one.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

My problem with that is that Scripture tells us that there is no other name than Christ by which we are saved, so why does Mary or anyone else have to be mentioned in this aspect. We all who are saved cooperate with Christ, not as part of our Salvation, but because of it.

You mean you can’t even mention that Christ has a mother, lest that mention somehow grant her salvific status? Why do you think that God had Jesus born of a woman?

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Yep, same as your Catholic church

. . You are stereotyping all Anglicans to be like a small handful. Your whole predisposition is a false one.

No, I’m not. You misunderstood. I gave simply examples of two separate persons, one of whom is of a more ‘conservative’ bent and does not believe in the ordination of women in the Anglican Church, one is more ‘liberal’ and believes in that and more, and many are in between. How is that stereotyping?

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

As an Anglican, I profess that it is by Christ alone that one is granted Salvation. Do Catholics profess this same thing?

Yes.

And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12

God bless you

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

Knowing exactly how it is we are to be saved is one of the most important questions I could ever think of. That’s why…

Grace.

God bless

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

Let me just say that I am not predisposed to make assumptions and utter stereotypical rhetoric about Catholics. I know more about Catholicism than most Catholics in church on Sunday morning (or Saturday night).

That’s rather ironic. Your first sentence says you don’t make assumptions then your second sentence follows with your assumption that you know more about Catholicism than most Catholics. It may quite be true that you know more than most Catholics, but it is still an assumption unless you know “most Catholics”

I asked an honest question in which nobody has yet given a Catechism backed answer to.

I thought you didn’t care for what the Catechism said?

Catholicism professes Mary to be co-redemptrix of souls and co-mediatrix with Christ

Some do, some don’t. I myself have not done enough study on the matter to say either way my beliefs on the matter. It is AFAIK not a binding belief on the Catholic faithful.

God bless you

 

[wisdomseeker]

My problem with that is that Scripture tells us that there is no other name than Christ by which we are saved, so why does Mary or anyone else have to be mentioned in this aspect. We all who are saved cooperate with Christ, not as part of our Salvation, but because of it.

my dear friend.
if you are an anglican, it is obvious that are going to see things the way you were tought by your leaders.

do you see the difference between the CC and anglicanism?

do you know that anglican church broke away from teh CC and begin teaching different things from the Church?
based on that, do you truly believe that you church have the Truth and the CC doesnt? do you believe that the CC has been wrong all along while your church got it right?

if you cant resolve these issues, how can you understand what the CC actually teach?

my presbeteryan friend, no matter how much i try to explain to her that holy Mother is not God. she continue to say that the CC worship Mary as God. do you see a problem here?

to understand what the Church teaches, one must belief what the Church teaches and not come here with the idea that what the Church teaches is what you believe she teaches.

 

[MarkBrown]

Knowing exactly how it is we are to be saved is one of the most important questions I could ever think of. That’s why…

You still did not answer the question, so it stands “Why?”

Let me develop it somewhat, are you here looking for Catholics who do not hold
to the catechism? The catechism answers the question you are asking. It is the
offical and taught answer of the Church. To stray from it is error. So are you looking
for Catholics who may respond in error either in outright disobedience or ignorance?

If you had read the Catholic Catechism, you who have your answers to this question and the questions on co-redemptrix and co-mediatrix. You appear to be assuming that Catholics are like Anglicans. Anglicans can pretty much believe anything they want and stay in good standing and recieve communion. Heck, in many if not most Anglican Churches you do not have to Anglican, Christian and in the case of one parish in Canada human.

Catholics do not work like that. You may find Catholics who do not understand or have a false understanding of the teachings. That is why I directed you to the Catechism. The offical end all statement of the Catholic faith. I have interacted with Catholics who professed ideas and theology or thought the church taught some really strange teachings.
The plum line is the catechism.

So my question is again “Why?” Why are you looking for answers from outside the Catechism? Why are you looking for Catholics who may not understand the fullness of the faith taught by the Church? Why are you looking for the opinions of men (women) and not the teachings of the Church?

Peace

Mark+

 

[Carlan]

:FROM CRANMER
And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12

Yes, Cranmer, as I said there is no debate. Are you here to tell us that we believe otherwise? Forget it! We refuse the bait! Peace, Carlan

 

[Carlan]

Originally Posted by Cranmer2010
Let me just say that I am not predisposed to make assumptions and utter stereotypical rhetoric about Catholics. I know more about Catholicism than most Catholics in church on Sunday morning (or Saturday night). I asked an honest question in which nobody has yet given a Catechism backed answer to. Catholicism professes Mary to be co-redemptrix of souls and co-mediatrix with Christ which would make Jesus not soley the redeemer of souls and Mary a mediator with Christ. Is this not correct?

Cranmer, is the underlined the question you really wanted to ask about. I pulled the following from my noted, I offer it to you in the hopes it will help in your understanding…

SOME SAY MARY IS CO-REDEEMER BUT THAT IS NOT OFFICIAL DOCTRINE
: Is Mary A Co-Redeemer
Remember, Scripture is only ‘part’ of the teachings of Christ. Sacred tradition–the oral teachings of which St. Paul writes–the teachings which existed alongside Scripture from t the start–and revealed dogma–the fact, for example, that we can speak of Father, Son and Spirit as three Divine Persons in One God–something which is NOT explicitly taught in those words in Scripture–do not contradict Scripture.

Revelation has a lot to say. So indeed does Luke. Since God never stopped being Christ’s Father, I think you can equally say Mary never stopped being His mother. (Our parents, even when they die, don’t suddenly stop being our parents). Christ came to us through Mary; He continues to come to us through her. He didn’t come through Mary for 9 months and then suddenly, once He was born, ‘stop’ coming from her and come instead through somebody else. So Scripture itself is in fact supporting the teaching that Christ comes to us through Mary. She thus remains a legitimate avenue --indeed a gate–both for Him to come to us and us to come to Him. This still in no way makes her a semi-goddess or equal to Him in any way. The dawn is not the full morning; the moon reflects the sun’s light, not its own, the gate to a walled garden is not the garden itself. . .but we don’t have a full morning until we have had a dawn. We don’t get into a garden unless we go through the gate, we don’t have the moon’s light until we’ve had it first from the sun. . .

---

IS NOT OFFICIAL DOCTRINE.
The above comes from my notes about Mary the mother of God.
Sorry I do not have the original source,
Pax, Carlan