Can Contracepting Parents Teach Their Teenagers to Be Chaste?

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There are a lot of issues wrapped up in the essay that have given me pause over the past few years.

If it is accepted that God told Adam and Eve to go forth and multiply and that this means to have children, then isn’t it wrong to do anything that would hinder a wife getting pregnant?

If that is true, then at bottom natural family planning, sophistry aside, seems wrong because it is an attempt to prevent pregnancy.

It is said that natural family planning is an accepted method to avoid pregnancy because there is a chance that pregnancy will result. It is also said that artificial contraception by the use of devices including chemicals is not acceptable. However, everyone knows that there is still a chance of pregnancy. (Artificial contraception is not 100 percent effective.)

Some of my questions are: Is fornicating worse than contracepting? Is fornicating and cohabiting worse than just fornicating?. If the cohabiting, fornicating couple decide to avoid pregnancy, is it less morally offensive if they use NFP than ABC?

I apologize if this discussion is too sensitive for the forum, but in view of the article referred to above it seems acceptable.
 
If that is true, then at bottom natural family planning, sophistry aside, seems wrong because it is an attempt to prevent pregnancy.
It is wrong. All forms of family “planning” are wrong.
It is said that natural family planning is an accepted method to avoid pregnancy because there is a chance that pregnancy will result.
The Church approves of periodic abstinence for serious reasons, but in no way approves of ‘planning’ ones family.
Some of my questions are: Is fornicating worse than contracepting?
Both are mortal sins.
Is fornicating and cohabiting worse than just fornicating?.
Committing two mortal sins is worse than committing one, aside from the fact that in either case, unrepentant sin will result in the eternal death of the soul.
 
It is wrong. All forms of family “planning” are wrong.

The Church approves of periodic abstinence for serious reasons, but in no way approves of ‘planning’ ones family.
Wrong. Quoth the Catechism:
2367 Called to give life, spouses share in the creative power and fatherhood of God. “Married couples should regard it as their proper mission to transmit human life and to educate their children; they should realize that they are thereby cooperating with the love of God the Creator and are, in a certain sense, its interpreters. They will fulfill this duty with a sense of human and Christian responsibility.”
2368 A particular aspect of this responsibility concerns the regulation of procreation. For just reasons, spouses may wish to space the births of their children. It is their duty to make certain that their desire is not motivated by selfishness but is in conformity with the generosity appropriate to responsible parenthood. Moreover, they should conform their behavior to the objective criteria of morality…
2370 Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self-observation and the use of infertile periods, is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality.
Jeremy
 
If it is accepted that God told Adam and Eve to go forth and multiply and that this means to have children, then isn’t it wrong to do anything that would hinder a wife getting pregnant?

If that is true, then at bottom natural family planning, sophistry aside, seems wrong because it is an attempt to prevent pregnancy.

It is said that natural family planning is an accepted method to avoid pregnancy because there is a chance that pregnancy will result. It is also said that artificial contraception by the use of devices including chemicals is not acceptable. However, everyone knows that there is still a chance of pregnancy. (Artificial contraception is not 100 percent effective.)
I would certainly agree that when used in order to greatly decrease the likelihood of a woman from becoming pregnant the intent of NFP is the same as a couple using any other form of birth control–to be able to enjoy a sexual relationship without a resulting pregnancy at this time. As you have noted, websites promoting NFP tout that it is as effective as the pill if used correctly.

That NFP can also be used to increase the likelihood that a woman will become pregnant does not negate this.
 
What is wrong? To ‘plan’ ones family? I don’t see that in the quote.
What’s wrong is exactly what I said was wrong: your quote that “All forms of family planning are wrong.” The Catechism clearly indicates that family planning is not, in itself, wrong.

When it says, “For just reasons, spouses may wish to space the births of their children,” it explicitly says that spouses may plan their families. We are called to be good stewards of our bodies, including our reproductive capacity, and spouses may plan the births of their children as they consider appropriate based on just reasons not motivated by selfishness.

What you’ve said is in direct contradiction to this statement of the Catechism.

Jeremy
 
It is said that natural family planning is an accepted method to avoid pregnancy because there is a chance that pregnancy will result.
Whoever said that to you didn’t get it quite right. It’s more about not using artificial means to thwart God’s plan and not doing something that prevents total self-giving.
 
What’s wrong is exactly what I said was wrong: your quote that “All forms of family planning are wrong.” The Catechism clearly indicates that family planning is not, in itself, wrong.
No it doesn’t indicate (and most certainly does not clearly indicate) that family planning is not, in itself, wrong.
When it says, “For just reasons, spouses may wish to space the births of their children,” it explicitly says that spouses may plan their families.
Sorry, but that does not indicate that spouces may “plan” their families. Spouces may practice periodic continence, but in no way does that mean they may “plan” their families.
We are called to be good stewards of our bodies, including our reproductive capacity, and spouses may plan the births of their children as they consider appropriate based on just reasons not motivated by selfishness.
No, they may not plan the births of their children. They may abstain from marital relations (provided a number of other conditions are also met as well) for just reasons, however, it is wrong to say they may plan their families.
What you’ve said is in direct contradiction to this statement of the Catechism.
You are misinterpreting the quoted statement from the Catechism.
 
No it doesn’t indicate (and most certainly does not clearly indicate) that family planning is not, in itself, wrong.
I rarely see such sophistry on this board. This is disappointing.
Sorry, but that does not indicate that spouces may “plan” their families.
When it says that spouses may act upon a wish of theirs, they’ve established the two things necessary to prove the validity of my claim and the invalidity of yours: permissibility and premeditation. A “planned” act is simply a premeditated act. If spouses are permitted to act upon a wish (a wish that necessarily precedes the act, clearly indicating premediation or “planning”) to space births, they are permitted to do all that is necessary both for planning their family and for executing that plan.
Spouces may practice periodic continence, but in no way does that mean they may “plan” their families.
The Catechism very explicitly says “For just reasons, spouses may wish to space the births of their children.” That’s family planning, plain and simple. If you have some other definition of family planning that causes you to oppose it, please, enlighten us as to your particular definition.
No, they may not plan the births of their children.
They can space the births, and they can (of necessity) do so in a premeditated and planned fashion. This is what the Catechism very clearly says.
You are misinterpreting the quoted statement from the Catechism.
No, you’re either misinterpreting the Catechism, using a very uncommon and odd definition of “family planning,” or both.

Jeremy
 
I think families should be planned. This is not a matter of whether married couples can plan their family.

I am not advocating any artificial family planning or abortive measures by saying this. In fact, I am not advocating Natural Family Planning by saying this either, and I certainly see nothing wrong with NFP unless it is abused by a husband and wife who have no legitimate reason to avoid pregnancy.

This planning could involve a certain amount of prayer regarding whether a husband and wife should engage in the marital act. It could involve spacing children so that the husband and wife are not overwhelmed with financial and personal responsibility. There are many factors that come into play. The health of the parents is a major concern as well.

I am certain that God has a plan for our families, and we should pray that His plan is realized by us.
 
I think families should be planned. This is not a matter of whether married couples can plan their family.

I am not advocating any artificial family planning or abortive measures by saying this. In fact, I am not advocating Natural Family Planning by saying this either, and I certainly see nothing wrong with NFP unless it is abused by a husband and wife who have no legitimate reason to avoid pregnancy.

This planning could involve a certain amount of prayer regarding whether a husband and wife should engage in the marital act. It could involve spacing children so that the husband and wife are not overwhelmed with financial and personal responsibility. There are many factors that come into play. The health of the parents is a major concern as well.

I am certain that God has a plan for our families, and we should pray that His plan is realized by us.
Is the Catholic Church speaking out about the schools giving the birth control pill to 11 year olds?

Thanks
 
I rarely see such sophistry on this board. This is disappointing.
Yes it is disappointing when someone puts another down by trying to dismiss their argument on the grounds that it is sophistry.
When it says that spouses may act upon a wish of theirs, they’ve established the two things necessary to prove the validity of my claim and the invalidity of yours: permissibility and premeditation. A “planned” act is simply a premeditated act. If spouses are permitted to act upon a wish (a wish that necessarily precedes the act, clearly indicating premediation or “planning”) to space births, they are permitted to do all that is necessary both for planning their family and for executing that plan.
By using such logic one can conclude also that contraception is permissable. Of course doing “all that is necessary” MUST be limited to moral means.

Rather than try to define what I am talking about, I could not put it more eloquently than that which was summed up by Canon Francis J. Ripley in his book “This is the Faith” in which he writes:

"A word also needs to be mentioned about Natural Family Planning and periodic continence. Each method of limiting the birth of children relies on the use of the reproductive faculty only during the woman’s infertile periods, thus avoiding pregnancy. The use of the term ‘Natural Family Planning’ has come under sharp attack from traditional Catholic writers in recent years because it implies the right of the couple to ‘plan’ their family; whereas the Catholic norm is to let God plan one’s family and to accept the children when (and if) God gives them–as a blessing from Him on the marital union and on society. Except for the use of NFP for fertility reasons, i.e., to aid in a legitimate way in conceiving a child (as opposed, e.g., to in vitro fertilization, the planning aspect of NFP would appear to reflect acceptance of the neo-pagan practice of ‘family planning’–albeit using ‘natural’ as opposed to artificial means. Proponents of NFP, it would seem, are confusing a legitimate means during an emergency situation or for a ‘serious reason’ with an illegitimate end in the case of no family emergency or ‘no serious reason,’ and presume then to conclude that NFP is morally acceptable as a way of life. The end or purpose of NFP–that is, ‘planning’ one’s family–is not acceptable in principle, being against Natural Law and the teachings of the Church. A couple does not have the right to ‘plan their family,’ even though the means used are those of NFP and do not violate the Church’s proscriptions against artificial birth control. As Cardinal Ottaviani, former head of the Holy Office (Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith), declared before the assembled bishops at Vatican Council II, 'I am not pleased with the statement in the [draft] text that married couples may determine the number of children they are to have. Never has this been heard of in the Church.’ * This is the 2,000-year tradition of the Church, supported by Sacred Scripture (cf. Genesis 38:1-10, et al.) and reiterated by the Popes in the Ordinary Teaching Magisterium of the Church (e.g., Casti Connubii–‘On Marriage,’ Pius XI, 1930; Address to Midwives, Pius XII 1951; Humanae Vitae–‘On Human Life,’ Paul VI, 1968, No. 10). Also, it should be noted that the Catechism of the Catholic Church (2nd Ed., 1997) does not use the term ‘Natural Family Planning.’ Rather, it uses the term ‘periodic continence’ (CCC, No. 2370), that is, the practice of continence, or abstinence from sexual union, during the woman’s fertile time each month.
On the other hand, periodic continence, i.e., refraining from use of the marital act during the woman’s fertile time each month, as a ‘safety net’ for a serious reason (cf. Humanae Vitae, No. 10), is completely legitimate, but only under certain very specific conditions. And they are the following:
**
1. That there be a serious reason to practice periodic continence.
2. That it be with the mutual consent of the marriage partners.
3. That this continence not be the near occasion of mortal sin for either party.
4. That the periodic continence last only so long as the serious reason lasts.
5. It is recommended that the situation be reviewed by one’s confessor to insure that all the requisite conditions are present."


** The Rhine Flows Into the Tiber–A History of Vatican II, Fr. Ralph M Wiltgen, S.V.D.*
**Cf. Moral Theology, Rev. Heribert Jone, O.F.M. Cap., J.C.D."
 
From Pope John Paul II
Charter of the Rights of the Family

“The spouses have the inalienable right to found a family and to decide on the spacing of births and the number of children to be born, taking into full consideration their duties towards themselves, their children already born, the family and society, in a just hierarchy of values and in accordance with the objective moral order which excludes recourse to contraception, sterilization and abortion”
 
Yes it is disappointing when someone puts another down by trying to dismiss their argument on the grounds that it is sophistry.

By using such logic one can conclude also that contraception is permissable. Of course doing “all that is necessary” MUST be limited to moral means.

Rather than try to define what I am talking about, I could not put it more eloquently than that which was summed up by Canon Francis J. Ripley in his book “This is the Faith” in which he writes:

"A word also needs to be mentioned about Natural Family Planning and periodic continence. Each method of limiting the birth of children relies on the use of the reproductive faculty only during the woman’s infertile periods, thus avoiding pregnancy. The use of the term ‘Natural Family Planning’ has come under sharp attack from traditional Catholic writers in recent years because it implies the right of the couple to ‘plan’ their family; whereas the Catholic norm is to let God plan one’s family and to accept the children when (and if) God gives them–as a blessing from Him on the marital union and on society. Except for the use of NFP for fertility reasons, i.e., to aid in a legitimate way in conceiving a child (as opposed, e.g., to in vitro fertilization, the planning aspect of NFP would appear to reflect acceptance of the neo-pagan practice of ‘family planning’–albeit using ‘natural’ as opposed to artificial means. Proponents of NFP, it would seem, are confusing a legitimate means during an emergency situation or for a ‘serious reason’ with an illegitimate end in the case of no family emergency or ‘no serious reason,’ and presume then to conclude that NFP is morally acceptable as a way of life. The end or purpose of NFP–that is, ‘planning’ one’s family–is not acceptable in principle, being against Natural Law and the teachings of the Church. A couple does not have the right to ‘plan their family,’ even though the means used are those of NFP and do not violate the Church’s proscriptions against artificial birth control. As Cardinal Ottaviani, former head of the Holy Office (Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith), declared before the assembled bishops at Vatican Council II, 'I am not pleased with the statement in the [draft] text that married couples may determine the number of children they are to have. Never has this been heard of in the Church.’ * This is the 2,000-year tradition of the Church, supported by Sacred Scripture (cf. Genesis 38:1-10, et al.) and reiterated by the Popes in the Ordinary Teaching Magisterium of the Church (e.g., Casti Connubii–‘On Marriage,’ Pius XI, 1930; Address to Midwives, Pius XII 1951; Humanae Vitae–‘On Human Life,’ Paul VI, 1968, No. 10). Also, it should be noted that the Catechism of the Catholic Church (2nd Ed., 1997) does not use the term ‘Natural Family Planning.’ Rather, it uses the term ‘periodic continence’ (CCC, No. 2370), that is, the practice of continence, or abstinence from sexual union, during the woman’s fertile time each month.
On the other hand, periodic continence, i.e., refraining from use of the marital act during the woman’s fertile time each month, as a ‘safety net’ for a serious reason (cf. Humanae Vitae, No. 10), is completely legitimate, but only under certain very specific conditions. And they are the following:**
1. That there be a serious reason to practice periodic continence.
2. That it be with the mutual consent of the marriage partners.
3. That this continence not be the near occasion of mortal sin for either party.
4. That the periodic continence last only so long as the serious reason lasts.
5. It is recommended that the situation be reviewed by one’s confessor
to insure that all the requisite conditions are present."

** The Rhine Flows Into the Tiber–A History of Vatican II, Fr. Ralph M Wiltgen, S.V.D.*
**Cf. Moral Theology, Rev. Heribert Jone, O.F.M. Cap., J.C.D."
Can you clarify? Canon Ripley’s statement seems contrary to the quote from the Catechism and Pope John Paul II. Whom am I supposed to take instruction from?
 
From Pope John Paul II
Charter of the Rights of the Family

“The spouses have the inalienable right to found a family and to decide on the spacing of births and the number of children to be born, taking into full consideration their duties towards themselves, their children already born, the family and society, in a just hierarchy of values and in accordance with the objective moral order which excludes recourse to contraception, sterilization and abortion”
It is correct that governments and institutions have no right to intrude on the rights of families in the number of children they wish to have. reference intro to charter by USCCB: usccb.org/laity/marriage/charterfamily.shtml
 
Can you clarify? Canon Ripley’s statement seems contrary to the quote from the Catechism and Pope John Paul II. Whom am I supposed to take instruction from?
Which part is contrary?
2367 Called to give life, spouses share in the creative power and fatherhood of God. “Married couples should regard it as their proper mission to transmit human life and to educate their children; they should realize that they are thereby cooperating with the love of God the Creator and are, in a certain sense, its interpreters. They will fulfill this duty with a sense of human and Christian responsibility.”
It doesn’t say “it would be a good idea” or “it is recommended”. It says they “should”.
 
Which part is contrary?

It doesn’t say “it would be a good idea” or “it is recommended”. It says they “should”.
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maria29:
From Pope John Paul II
Charter of the Rights of the Family

“The spouses have the inalienable right to found a family and to decide on the spacing of births and the number of children to be born, taking into full consideration their duties towards themselves, their children already born, the family and society, in a just hierarchy of values and in accordance with the objective moral order which excludes recourse to contraception, sterilization and abortion”
jemfench:
The Catechism very explicitly says “For just reasons, spouses may wish to space the births of their children.”
which references…

CCC said:
**2368 **A particular aspect of this responsibility concerns the regulation of procreation. For just reasons, spouses may wish to space the births of their children. It is their duty to make certain that their desire is not motivated by selfishness but is in conformity with the generosity appropriate to responsible parenthood. Moreover, they should conform their behavior to the objective criteria of morality: When it is a question of harmonizing married love with the responsible transmission of life, the morality of the behavior does not depend on sincere intention and evaluation of motives alone; but it must be determined by objective criteria, criteria drawn from the nature of the person and his acts criteria that respect the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love; this is possible only if the virtue of married chastity is practiced with sincerity of heart.
 
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