Can/do souls die?

[Phyllo]

I am confused:
All material from the DRB and Haydock commentary:

Matt 10:28 And fear not them that kill the body, and cannot kill the soul: but rather fear him that can destroy both soul and body in hell.

If your soul is destroyed in hell how do you know you are in hell?

Rev.2:8-11
8 And to the Angel of the church of Smyrna write: These things saith the First and the Last: who was dead, and liveth:

9 I know thy tribulation and thy poverty, but thou art rich: and thou art blasphemed by those who say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer. Behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that you may be tried: and you shall have tribulation ten days. Be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee the crown of life.

11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches: He that shall overcome, shall not be hurt by the second death.

commentary:
Ver. 8-11. To the Angel of the church of Smyrna. To St. Polycarp, or some bishop there before him. No reprehension is given to this bishop, or to his church, but a commendation for suffering in poverty and tribulation, when they were rich in grace. (Witham) — Poverty. He was poor in temporal things, but rich in grace and merits. — Thou art blasphemed by those false teachers, who call themselves Jews and Israelites, and the chosen people of God, waiting for the coming of the Messias, but are not to be looked upon as such; having refused to own their true Messias, Jesus Christ, they are the Synagogue of Satan, the greatest enemies of the true faith. — You shall have tribulation ten days, which several here understand for a long time, others for a short time, ten times being used in both senses. (Witham) — The first death is that of the body, the second of the soul. (Ven. Bede)

Question–What is meant by death of the soul? I thought if in hell souls suffered eternal fire and they knew they were suffering.

Jesus talks about eternal hell fire, eternal damnation but at His second coming does He destroy hell in the second death?
Thank You

 

[JimG]

Death of the soul is simply the loss of divine grace from the soul. A dead soul is a soul in the state of rejection of God, it is a soul in the state of mortal sin, a state lacking the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. The term is metaphorical since the soul cannot cease to exist.

 

[mariafransisca2]

No, our souls are immortal

saintsarefamily.blogspot.com/

Read the Diary of St. Faustina Kowalska - Divine Mercy in my Soul. St. Faustina said she would fight for immortal souls.

It is available online and for free
saintsbooks.net/books/St.%20Faustina%20Kowalska%20-%20Diary.pdf

You can get many saints books for free here
saintsbooks.net/BooksList.html
saintsbookscatechisms.blogspot.com/
basilica.org/pages/ebooks.php

Learn from the saints, they will tell you that our soul is immortal

You can see many incorrupt bodies of the saints in the saintsarefamily.blogspot.com/ website

May the merciful Jesus bless you

 

[EricFilmer]

I am confused…

…Question–What is meant by death of the soul? I thought if in hell souls suffered eternal fire and they knew they were suffering.

Jesus talks about eternal hell fire, eternal damnation but at His second coming does He destroy hell in the second death?
Thank You

You examined the concept of the Second Death in Revelation, but it seems you simply did not read far enough. It comes up again in chapter 20:

Then I saw a great white throne and him who sat upon it; from his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them.
And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Also another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, by what they had done.
And the sea gave up the dead in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead in them, and all were judged by what they had done.
Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire;
and if any one’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. (Rev. 20:11-15)

Those who undergo the second death are considered “dead” because their names were not in the Book of Life. As we can see from this passage, the second death is the lake of fire, which means hell, a state of eternal damnation, etc. The first death is the death of the body, and the second death is the death of the soul, but neither death actually causes the soul to go out of existence.

 

[Big_Dummy]

The end of James chapter two, simply defines death as seperation of body and spirit. Thus spiritual death would be simply seperation from God’s prescence.

We know from I Cor 15 that the resurrected body is made to be indesctructable. There is no indication that the righteous and wicked will have different types of resurrected bodies.

The word “destruction” in scripture often has the meaning of disaster. One gains its meaning from context of its use in a chapter and verse.

Just because God is able does not mean he is obligated to do something.

 

[Phyllo]

Death of the soul is simply the loss of divine grace from the soul. A dead soul is a soul in the state of rejection of God, it is a soul in the state of mortal sin, a state lacking the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. The term is metaphorical since the soul cannot cease to exist.

Thanks.
I do know that the soul does not die but it is hard to explain that to someone who reads the bible literally. I couldn’t find the words to say that eternal life means just that. It is up to us how we spend eternal life, either with God or in hell. I didn’t think of the word “metaphorical”
.
My friend believes that hell is just a burying place in the ground and the soul is just what animates the body so I find it difficult to explain my beliefs to her. She believes that condemned people just cease to exist . She thinks that that is punishment. I try to explain to her that eternal punishment is no punishment if you cease to exist and don’t know you are being punished.

Thanks again

 

[Phyllo]

The end of James chapter two, simply defines death as seperation of body and spirit. Thus spiritual death would be simply seperation from God’s prescence.

We know from I Cor 15 that the resurrected body is made to be indesctructable. There is no indication that the righteous and wicked will have different types of resurrected bodies.

The word “destruction” in scripture often has the meaning of disaster. One gains its meaning from context of its use in a chapter and verse.

Just because God is able does not mean he is obligated to do something.

Jesus talks more about hell than He does about heaven. So I would think that hell actually is a place where damned souls are tormented for eternity: and yes in hell we are separated from God.

At the end of time we will all be resurrected and body and soul/spirit reunited. Some will spend eternity in hell and some on earth or in heaven.

So as you mentioned in 1 Cor. 15 that the resurrected body is indestructible to me that means that the people damned in hell (at the end of time) will be there being tormented day and night in their indestructible bodies. That is a terrifying thought but I think a true one.

 

[Phyllo]

You examined the concept of the Second Death in Revelation, but it seems you simply did not read far enough. It comes up again in chapter 20:

Then I saw a great white throne and him who sat upon it; from his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them.
And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Also another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, by what they had done.
And the sea gave up the dead in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead in them, and all were judged by what they had done.
Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire;
and if any one’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. (Rev. 20:11-15)

Those who undergo the second death are considered “dead” because their names were not in the Book of Life. As we can see from this passage, the second death is the lake of fire, which means hell, a state of eternal damnation, etc. The first death is the death of the body, and the second death is the death of the soul, but neither death actually causes the soul to go out of existence.

This is exactly what I think but you put it in better words. I can’t explain this to someone who does not believe in hell ore the eternal life of the soul.
I guess I should stop trying and leave her to God to enlighten in His time.
Thanks

 

[Phyllo]

No, our souls are immortal

saintsarefamily.blogspot.com/

Read the Diary of St. Faustina Kowalska - Divine Mercy in my Soul. St. Faustina said she would fight for immortal souls.

It is available online and for free
saintsbooks.net/books/St.%20Faustina%20Kowalska%20-%20Diary.pdf

You can get many saints books for free here
saintsbooks.net/BooksList.html
saintsbookscatechisms.blogspot.com/
basilica.org/pages/ebooks.php

Learn from the saints, they will tell you that our soul is immortal

You can see many incorrupt bodies of the saints in the saintsarefamily.blogspot.com/ website

May the merciful Jesus bless you

Thanks for the links. I don’t read about the saints but I guess I should. A lot of you on the forums seem to so I guess there is something to be gained.

 

[Big_Dummy]

Also, Matthew 25:46 uses the word eternal for both heaven, life and hell, punishment. If one side of the verse is limited time, existence, than one must shorten the other side too. Same word, same grammar.

 

[jsaldar]

The Soul doesn’t die. Hell is death to the soul.

 

[Dukai]

The Holy Roman Church solemnly affirms that the soul of man is immortal.

Summi Pontificatus, Pope Pius XII, 1939, (#38): A marvelous vision, which makes us see the human race in the unity of one common origin in God “one God and Father of all, Who is above all, and through all, and in us all” (Ephesians iv. 6); in the unity of nature which in every man is equally composed of material body and spiritual, immortal soul; in the unity of the immediate end and mission in the world; in the unity of dwelling place, the earth, of whose resources all men can by natural right avail themselves, to sustain and develop life; in the unity of the supernatural end, God Himself, to Whom all should tend; in the unity of means to secure that end.

Divini Redemptoris, Pope Pius XI, 1937, (#27): In the Encyclical on Christian Education[10] We explained the fundamental doctrine concerning man as it may be gathered from reason and Faith. Man has a spiritual and immortal soul. He is a person, marvelously endowed by his Creator with gifts of body and mind. He is a true “microcosm,” as the ancients said, a world in miniature, with a value far surpassing that of the vast inanimate cosmos. God alone is his last end, in this life and the next. By sanctifying grace he is raised to the dignity of a son of God, and incorporated into the Kingdom of God in the Mystical Body of Christ. In consequence he has been endowed by God with many and varied prerogatives: the right to life, to bodily integrity, to the necessary means of existence; the right to tend toward his ultimate goal in the path marked out for him by God; the right of association and the right to possess and use property.

 

[Phyllo]

Thank you one and all