Can EMHCs bless throats?

[rcballi46]

This discussion reminds me of a part in Holy Scripture where Jesus rebuked the Jews of His time for being too caught up in ‘legalism’, forgetting the spirit of His primary law: to love God and our fellow humans.
I bless (invoking God’s grace on) my children and grand-children (and those who sneeze) regularily in the same way anyone else ‘blesses’. After all, the priest, the deacon, the lay person, all basically say the same thing: “May the blessing of almighty God … etc” (or words to that effect). It’s really God that ultimately blesses us - no one, even by virtue of his office, can force Him to do anything.
So, to me, when another person, priest, or not, (or myself) pronounces a blessing, I thank God for His blessing and may He also bless the person who cared enough to invite this blessing upon me. The difference between a lay person and a priest is that by power of ordination only he can consecrate the bread and wine into Jesus Christ and administer appropriate sacraments - that’s basically it! It shouldn’t matter who Jesus uses to come into our bodies during communion - priest or lay person - the fact is, I’m grateful to be able to receive Him at all, and I bless the person who presents Him to me at Communion time!

 

[Dottie_T]

Saying “God bless you” to someone doesn’t make a blessing null if one is not a priest or deacon. Anyone can say it. I say it all the time and I mean it. I want God to bless that person. If a priest and the diocese have allowed the Lay Ministers to bless the throats of the lay members, then I feel it’s allowed. I think others get caught up in defending what they believe should be the faith and it’s practices. What some fail to realize is that not all that it is allowed is going to meet their expectations. It’s kin to doubt of what the Church teaches.

I totally agree. I am an EMHC at my parish and have given blessings many times. My fellow RCIA Team member and I blessed our members throats and we felt that there was nothing wrong in doing that. The members realized we were only saying a prayer for them on their behalf.

May God Bless You!

 

[benedictgal]

I found this from the Official Book of Blessings used in the U.S.A. : 1626 The blessing of throats may be given by a priest, deacon, or a lay minister who follows the rites and prayers designated for a lay minister. If the blessing is conferred during Mass, the blessing follows the homily and general intercessions, or, for pastoral reasons, the prayer of blessing may take the place of the final blessing of the Mass. When the blessing is given outside Mass, it is preceded by a brief celebration of the word of God. If the blessing is to be celebrated at Morning Prayer or Evening Prayer, it is given after the reading and responsory (and homily) and before the gospel canticle.
I respectfully suggest a careful reading of catholicculture.org/culture/liturgicalyear/prayers/view.cfm?id=733

However, laity cannot impart blessings. All they can do is say a prayer over the person. That is an entirely different thing than imparting a blessing.

 

[benedictgal]

I totally agree. I am an EMHC at my parish and have given blessings many times. My fellow RCIA Team member and I blessed our members throats and we felt that there was nothing wrong in doing that. The members realized we were only saying a prayer for them on their behalf.

May God Bless You!

Dottie, as EMHCs, we are not to bless anyone. It is a misnomer to say that you are blessing someone when all you are saying is a prayer over them.

1. ***Lay people, within the context of Holy Mass, are unable to confer blessings. These blessings, rather, are the competence of the priest (***cf. Ecclesia de Mysterio, Notitiae 34 (15 Aug. 1997), art. 6, § 2; Canon 1169, § 2; and Roman Ritual De Benedictionibus (1985), n. 18).

1. Furthermore, the laying on of a hand or hands — which has its own sacramental significance, inappropriate here — by those distributing Holy Communion, in substitution for its reception, is to be explicitly discouraged.

Even though this document treats the issue of blessings in lieu of Holy Communion, the same prinicple applies here as well.

 

[jmcrae]

I bless (invoking God’s grace on) my children and grand-children (and those who sneeze) regularily in the same way anyone else ‘blesses’. After all, the priest, the deacon, the lay person, all basically say the same thing: “May the blessing of almighty God … etc” (or words to that effect).

Something is wrong if they are all saying the same words. It’s dangerous to blur the lines between the priesthood and the people, or to think that the priest is “no better than” the lay people.

 

[The_Stig]

On the original question:

NO!

the Congregation for Divine Worship has spoken, for any Catholics who actually care what the Vatican has to say. It is wrong for lay-people to impersonate priests.

 

[zab]

On the original question:

NO!

the Congregation for Divine Worship has spoken, for any Catholics who actually care what the Vatican has to say. It is wrong for lay-people to impersonate priests.

So why doesn’t the Congregation for Divine Worship change the description in the Book of Blessings regarding lay persons and the blessing of throats so there will be no misunderstanding by some people who think that lay persons are trying to impersonate priests?

 

[The_Stig]

We’re all waiting for the answer to that one.

At least, the interested parties are waiting.

BTW, it’s properly called “the Book of Spells” among my Rad Trad set.

 

[Merkel]

On the original question:

NO!

the Congregation for Divine Worship has spoken, for any Catholics who actually care what the Vatican has to say. It is wrong for lay-people to impersonate priests.

And just what constitutes impersonating a priest? I’m guessing what some Nefarious Neo-Con Catholics view as impersonating a priest may not be the same as what the Holy See views as impersonating a priest.

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

So why doesn’t the Congregation for Divine Worship change the description in the Book of Blessings regarding lay persons and the blessing of throats so there will be no misunderstanding by some people who think that lay persons are trying to impersonate priests?

We all know these things take a long time to change. The more recent word is the document on the role of the laity. I don’t have time to check it now. Was it referenced here?

Again, it is up to the pastor what transpires in his parish. Lay people are allowed to perform the intercession, as long as they do not use a priestly manner.

Certainly you may scramble for the priestly blessing, but if you have attended Mass, you received it already.

Lux

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

And just what constitutes impersonating a priest? I’m guessing what some Nefarious Neo-Con Catholics view as impersonating a priest may not be the same as what the Holy See views as impersonating a priest.

Very true.

 

[zab]

We all know these things take a long time to change. The more recent word is the document on the role of the laity. I don’t have time to check it now. Was it referenced here?

Again, it is up to the pastor what transpires in his parish. Lay people are allowed to perform the intercession, as long as they do not use a priestly manner.
Certainly you may scramble for the priestly blessing, but if you have attended Mass, you received it already.

Lux

So you agree that Lay people are allowed to use the proper wording when assisting with the blessing of throats? If you read the quote in my post, Stig answered the question of the OP (Can EMHCs bless throats?) as follows:
“NO! the Congregation for Divine Worship has spoken, for any Catholics who actually care what the Vatican has to say. It is wrong for lay-people to impersonate priests.”

 

[benedictgal]

The minute that a document has reached the level of Notitiae, and even before, since it already has a protocol number, it needs to be obeyed. The priest’s authority only goes so far. He does not have the power to supercede Rome. Even the bishop has limited authority as he cannot act in contrary to what the Holy See has determined.

The layman praying over someone is very different from a priest imparting a blessing.

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

And just what constitutes impersonating a priest? I’m guessing what some Nefarious Neo-Con Catholics view as impersonating a priest may not be the same as what the Holy See views as impersonating a priest.

Yes, that’s it exactly. I once asked a conservative friend about the vagueness of some of these documents. He told me that many are left with some room for interpretation, but this is to be done by someone with authority, not a lay person.

If something is forbidden, this is different from being discouraged, I will take the interpretation of my pastor over that of some anonymous poster on the internet.

Lux

 

[benedictgal]

Let’s look at what the authoritative, liturgical documents of the Church say regarding what the laity can and cannot do:

From the recent document released by the CDWDS:

1. Lay people, within the context of Holy Mass, are unable to confer blessings. These blessings, rather, are the competence of the priest (cf. Ecclesia de Mysterio, Notitiae 34 (15 Aug. 1997), art. 6, § 2; Canon 1169, § 2; and Roman Ritual De Benedictionibus (1985), n. 18).

From Ecclesiae de Mysterio:

1. ***To promote the proper identity (of various roles) in this area, those abuses which are contrary to the provisions of canon 907 are to be eradicated. In eucharistic celebrations deacons and non-ordained members of the faithful may not pronounce prayers ***-- e.g. especially the eucharistic prayer, with its concluding doxology – ***or any other parts of the liturgy reserved to the celebrant priest. Neither may deacons or non-ordained members of the faithful use gestures ***or actions which are proper to the same priest celebrant. It is a grave abuse for any member of the non-ordained faithful to “quasi preside” at the Mass while leaving only that minimal participation to the priest which is necessary to secure validity.

…Every effort must be made to avoid even the appearance of confusion which can spring from anomalous liturgical practices.

…To avoid any confusion between sacramental liturgical acts presided over by a priest or deacon, and other acts which the non-ordained faithful may lead, it is always necessary to use clearly distinct ceremonials, especially for the latter.

It’s pretty clear as to what a lay person, be they EMHCs or not, can and cannot do. Ecclesiae de Mysterio came about because the lines were too blurred and the laity started taken on duties and rights that are reserved solely to the clergy. Blessing is one such thing. These documents are not up for open interpretation. They mean what they say and say what they mean.

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

Some laypeople think they have some special knowledge or gift—greater than others or even pastors.

As I said, I will accept the interpretation of my pastor as to what constitutes impersonating a priest or imparting a blessing, rather than that of an anonymous poster. If I am asked to assit with the services on the feast of St Blaise, I will assist.

Lux

 

[ncjohn]

It’s pretty clear as to what a lay person, be they EMHCs or not, can and cannot do. Ecclesiae de Mysterio came about because the lines were too blurred and the laity started taken on duties and rights that are reserved solely to the clergy. Blessing is one such thing. These documents are not up for open interpretation. They mean what they say and say what they mean.

The documents are quite clear about what the lay minister can do in this circumstance, as has been repeatedly shown. The documents state that a lay minister may assist as long as they follow the ritual and do not add blessings or words beyond what they are allowed.

I had thought you had at least come to agreement on that point but from your previous post I’m not sure you’re not backtracking again and trying to claim that lay ministers cannot assist in this ritual.

Am I misunderstanding what you’re saying here or are you simply reiterating for the umpteenth time that lay ministers can’t offer “blessings” during Mass?

This was all cleared up many posts back and I’m really struggling to understand why the discussion is even still going on.

Peace,

 

[benedictgal]

The documents are quite clear about what the lay minister can do in this circumstance, as has been repeatedly shown. The documents state that a lay minister may assist as long as they follow the ritual and do not add blessings or words beyond what they are allowed.

I had thought you had at least come to agreement on that point but from your previous post I’m not sure you’re not backtracking again and trying to claim that lay ministers cannot assist in this ritual.

Am I misunderstanding what you’re saying here or are you simply reiterating for the umpteenth time that lay ministers can’t offer “blessings” during Mass?

This was all cleared up many posts back and I’m really struggling to understand why the discussion is even still going on.

Peace,

What I was saying was not back-tracking. The problem is that for some, they may continue to refer to what a lay person can do as “blessing” when, in fact, it is not entirely the case. We pray for someone; we don’t impart a blessing as this is not what we can do. In other words, we can’t give what we have no authority to give. Were you to come to my line, hypothetically and in a setting apart from Mass, all you will get is my praying for you that St. Blaise will interced for you. Were you to go to my parochial vicar’s line (at the Mass, or even apart from a Mass), he will bless you. That’s a big difference.

 

[zab]

What I was saying was not back-tracking. The problem is that for some, they may continue to refer to what a lay person can do as “blessing” when, in fact, it is not entirely the case. We pray for someone; we don’t impart a blessing as this is not what we can do. In other words, we can’t give what we have no authority to give. Were you to come to my line, hypothetically and in a setting apart from Mass, all you will get is my praying for you that St. Blaise will interced for you. Were you to go to my parochial vicar’s line (at the Mass, or even apart from a Mass), he will bless you. That’s a big difference.

Rather, I think these people understand that a blessing from the priest is different from the prayer prayed by the lay-person. Perhaps what is lacking by some is trusting that God will bless those individuals being prayed for by the lay person. What some are objecting to is the slights directed to lay persons who have been asked to assist the priest in the blessing of throats as well as the priests who have allowed their participation, implying that they are doing something wrong.

When it comes down to it, I would rather go to the priest for a blessing. Perhaps I am somewhat lacking in trust, too. But I am not going to make wrongful judgements and false accusations against those who have been asked to do something that has been understood by the pastor to be permissable.

 

[ncjohn]

What I was saying was not back-tracking. The problem is that for some, they may continue to refer to what a lay person can do as “blessing” when, in fact, it is not entirely the case. We pray for someone; we don’t impart a blessing as this is not what we can do. In other words, we can’t give what we have no authority to give. Were you to come to my line, hypothetically and in a setting apart from Mass, all you will get is my praying for you that St. Blaise will interced for you. Were you to go to my parochial vicar’s line (at the Mass, or even apart from a Mass), he will bless you. That’s a big difference.

Ok, thanks for clearing that up. Because of the way the documents were highlighted and the way your post was worded, I took it that you were saying that the lay participation wasn’t allowed. I don’t think we have any disagreement that what the lay person is doing is different from what the priest is doing.

A big concern of mine, as zab noted, was that we not have people thinking there has been something inappropriate done as long as the ritual is properly carried out and people don’t exceed their bounds.

Peace,