Hell is separation from God.if God is omnipresent, or having the capacity of being present everywhere, then can He be in hell also? Although I have once heard that hell is not a place, therefore God could not be there, I tend to ask this just to be knowledgeable about it. Could someone atleast expound this more? thanks.
oh thanks! that cleared me up right away. However what I would like to focus now is whether or not hell is a place.Hell is separation from God.
God cannot be separated from Himself
Therefore, God cannot be in hell.
We don’t know at this time, however we are certain that after the end of time we will be re-united with our bodies and those condemned to Hell will be there with the bodies.oh thanks! that cleared me up right away. However what I would like to focus now is whether or not hell is a place.
The answer is yes and no: God is omnipresent and holds all things in existence at all times, thus God is present with those experiencing hell in some real sense. That said, salvation is being united to God in some real and unique sense (and not everyone is), thus God is not and cannot experiencing hell. Thus, hell is being separated from God and not being united to Him as believers are united to Him.if God is omnipresent, or having the capacity of being present everywhere, then can He be in hell also? Although I have once heard that hell is not a place, therefore God could not be there, I tend to ask this just to be knowledgeable about it. Could someone atleast expound this more? thanks.
Yes, you are correct.The answer is yes and no: God is omnipresent and holds all things in existence at all times, thus God is present with those experiencing hell in some real sense. That said, salvation is being united to God in some real and unique sense (and not everyone is), thus God is not and cannot experiencing hell. Thus, hell is being separated from God and not being united to Him as believers are united to Him.
David:Hell is separation from God.
God cannot be separated from Himself
Therefore, God cannot be in hell.
One reason for speculation is to obey our first Pope, Angelic:Why is anyone speculating on hell? The Catechism of the Catholic Church makes very few references to hell, only to state that is is for people who have deliberately chosen it, and that God through the Church gives us every opportunity to turn away from sin and from everlasting damnation. Should we then be making speculations on it where the Church will not pronounce judgement?
Should we not instead be running toward heaven?
Avoid sin, go to Holy Confession when you do, and go to Holy Communion to be strengthened by our Lord’s Body and Blood so as to grow in grace, and as St. Paul says, so as to win the crown which comes at the end of the race.
Don’t speculate on hell. It profits us nothing. Run the race for the crown. There is no consolation prize.
Thank you, Skinny P! Please tell me: Do members of the Eastern Orthodox Church believe God is merciful to all, even to those in Hell? or do they believe that His mercy ends at the Gates of Hell?I am Eastern Orthodox, seriously thinking of converting to Catholicism, just so you and others know where I am coming from with my opinion.
Technically, yes, is the answer to your question. God is everywhere. God is an all consuming fire. For Christians, that fire is a light, glorious and bright. It is a splendor beyond belief.
But to some, it can be a horrible torment. The scriptures refer to God’s “fire” refining a person like refining gold, or destroying and consuming them. Basically separating the chaff from the wheat. This is one of the reasons for the devotion to Mary. She contained God within Her, and was not consumed.
Think of the “burning bush”. Think of Isaiah, when he had a vision of the Lord, he falls and exclaims he is “undone”.
Those separated from God will be “undone” in his direct presence. They will seek to flee, but cannot.
This is from the EO tradition, and a simplification of the belief. I do not know how well this lines up with RC teaching.
There is no official “dogma” that I am aware of, but there are accounts of saints (neptic fathers) asking if satan could be saved. The accounts depict pride as well as hate, fear, (passions in general) being the object of separation. The damned, satan would not really ask for mercy or truly humble themselves.Thank you, Skinny P! Please tell me: Do members of the Eastern Orthodox Church believe God is merciful to all, even to those in Hell? or do they believe that His mercy ends at the Gates of Hell?
Thanks for replying, Skinny P. Let’s say, for the sake of investigating the possibilities, that God does indeed answer prayers to show mercy to the damned. In what way, can you imagine, such mercy might manifest itself? That is, how might God show mercy to them?… there is the strong tradition of praying for the dead, and those who are truly humble here, can ask for mercy. Certain prayer ask for mercy for everyone including the dead who may be in hell. …
Spockrates,Thanks for replying, Skinny P. Let’s say, for the sake of investigating the possibilities, that God does indeed answer prayers to show mercy to the damned. In what way, can you imagine, such mercy might manifest itself? That is, how might God show mercy to them?
Here is a paraphrase (an "account") of that mercy you asked about as I remember it. A person in hell is visited by a saint or angel (i believe at the request and possibly accompanied by a devout Christian). The "damned" person ask for an apple (or something in their torment). It is provided. Immediately, all of the other people in hell start trying to get her/his apple. The recipient exclaims, "it's mine!" The "mercy" is lost. What if she/he would have given the "mercy/blessing" to another that asked for it? Could they even possibly do so?David:
Your logic appears sound, but the upshot seems to be this:
*]Hell is separation from God.
*]God cannot be separated from Himself.
*]So God cannot be in hell.
*]Omnipresence is to be present everywhere all the time.
Therefore,
God cannot be omnipresent.
Actually Spockrates is correct. If God maintains our existence (which He does) then He must be present. If those in hell exist then He must be present there also. You cannot completely escape God’s presence and continue to exist, since you are not “being” in and of itself like God. If you could then you would be a god of some sorts. There is nothing logically contradictory with saying God is present in hell, but we have to know in what capacity. God is love, and so He does all things in love. That includes maintaining your existence. So why is hell so horrible? Because it is a rejection of love/God (kind of like being at a party that you don’t enjoy). That being the case, hell has less to do with God’s relation to us than it does with our relation to God. You create hell, not God. So God will still maintain your existence, and you cannot escape His presence. However, if you are faithful that presence will bring you peace and joy (as it should), and if you are impenitent then your continual rejection of that presence will be torturous (since you want that joy, but you refuse to obtain it by going to God, which is actually the only way to gain it. This fact too will be torture to you). Again, it’s more harder to explain than this, but the main point is that Spock is right.False. P4 is not true. Omnipresence does not include logically contradictory states.
Interesting, Skinny. Reminds me of my days as a Fundamentalist Baptist. When I asked one of my teachers how a loving God could send anyone to Hell, his answer was this: “God is a loving God, but He is also a just God.”Spockrates,
This subject could show some of the paradigm differences between the EO and RC, imo. The EO place a heavy emphasis on the idea of “Theosis”. For example, the EO commune infants. The Eucharist in the east is looked upon as “transformative”, if that is even a real word. I am not saying it is not in the RC, I am just stating an emphasis of the EO.
“Abandon hope all ye who enter here”, Dante penned for the “welcome” to hell. Many literary critics agree that Dante was expressing that one entered hell voluntarily. Yes, it is not a theological source, I know, but still.Code:Here is a paraphrase (an "account") of that mercy you asked about as I remember it. A person in hell is visited by a saint or angel (i believe at the request and possibly accompanied by a devout Christian). The "damned" person ask for an apple (or something in their torment). It is provided. Immediately, all of the other people in hell start trying to get her/his apple. The recipient exclaims, "it's mine!" The "mercy" is lost. What if she/he would have given the "mercy/blessing" to another that asked for it? Could they even possibly do so?
No hope, or hope in one’s self, cuts one off from mercy. How can mercy be extended or accepted in these situations?
Do you think, David that Hell might be different things to different beings? For example, to a saint in Heaven, Hell is a place she cannot possibly go (or state of existence she cannot possibly experience). This is quite different from what Hell is to the damned, which is a place from which she cannot escape (or a state of existence she cannot change). So you see that Hell is contrary things. It is a place one cannot enter, and also a place from which one cannot escape. It is a state of existence one cannot experience, and a state of experience one cannot help experiencing. Yet I would be wrong to say that this makes the idea of Hell contradictory.False. P4 is not true. Omnipresence does not include logically contradictory states.