Can God do/cause evil?

[Wesrock]

Discipline/punishment/justice is not a moral evil. Let us be clear on that. God is the author of life. He can give and he can take, and that is not a moral evil, either. We have to be careful to not being God down to our level when discussing whether his behavior is moral.

God’s justice is also often described in very cosmic, very direct terms. But let’s think of the sacking of Jerusalem in 70AD. Christians see this as the fulfillment of a prophecy stated by Jesus, and justice for the rejection of the Messiah. Yet this was carried out by the armies of Rome. So in this sense, such actions were permitted by God to be carried out. He didn’t just reach down and crush Jerusalem with his thumb. I probably should be careful, but to some degree we may be able to think of God acting this way in the past. Did he literally just cause men to instantly start speaking different tongues? Or were events permitted to separate men and have them develop different languages? Can we do this in every case? Perhaps not. But I’m wary about taking every description of ancient justice described in such terms as God simply snapping his metaphorical fingers and creating an instant change as the end of it. I don’t want to handwave everything off of God, either. The Egyptian plagues, if taken as described as direct intervention, were not a moral evil, either.

Men are free, too. Not every evil we bring about on ourselves is the devil directly manipulating our actions.

 

[MysticMissMisty]

Scripture is very clear about who is responsible for that. It’s also clear that Christ cursed a fig tree.

Interestingly enough, one little detail of the Exodus narrative gave the Fathers a heck of a time, and it touches right on this topic. What does it mean that God promised to “harden Pharoah’s heart”?

Look, this is getting more complex than necessary. We do all kinds of actions every day that deprive a goodness of some object or person (“evil”) that nobody in their right mind would consider “wrong.” The problem is we associate the word “evil” with “immoral.” It is much broader than that.

Now, I do disagree with the hardening of the heart being actively and directly caused by God, since, as I understand it, He does not (not that He cannot, but does not) interfere with the free will of another. I take that God “hardened his heart” as some act of Providence (passively) rather than a direct hardening. After all, in another place within this same context, it states specially that Pharaoh **hardened his (own) heart **.

But, in the case of God directly causing bad “things” to happen, I would argue that He can.

However, there is yet another issue with the languages example specifically: In the New Testament, we are told that God is “not the author of confusion”. Yet, in the Genesis passage that is providing the basis for our current discussion, God Himselfs ays, “Let us go down and confuse their languages…” How do we reconcile these seemingly conflicting passages? This may actually be an argument that states that, at least in this case, it was not God who directly caused the confusion of languages.

 

[Graceful_Lamb]

To those who support my position that God can, in fact, do evil, at least as I have consistently defined it here, is this just your opinion or is this the Church’s stand on the matter as well? Or, does the Church even take an offcial view of any kind on the matter? Or, is there some semi-official stance in either side of the issue? Or, finally, is this currently all a matter of personal opinion (in the sense that the Church has taken no stance on it at least as of yet)?

I just want to be clear whether those who agree with my stance are doing so from their own opinion or based on some Church teaching.

I would suggest that you read the Didache, Canon Law, and the Catechism of the Catholic Church. All three can be found online. I know Canon Law and the CCC can be found at the Vatican website.

 

[e_c]

Now, I do disagree with the hardening of the heart being actively and directly caused by God, since, as I understand it, He does not (not that He cannot, but does not) interfere with the free will of another. I take that God “hardened his heart” as some act of Providence (passively) rather than a direct hardening. After all, in another place within this same context, it states specially that Pharaoh **hardened his (own) heart **.

But, in the case of God directly causing bad “things” to happen, I would argue that He can.

However, there is yet another issue with the languages example specifically: In the New Testament, we are told that God is “not the author of confusion”. Yet, in the Genesis passage that is providing the basis for our current discussion, God Himselfs ays, “Let us go down and confuse their languages…” How do we reconcile these seemingly conflicting passages? This may actually be an argument that states that, at least in this case, it was not God who directly caused the confusion of languages.

Like I said, it was a vexing exegetical issue in the patristic era. You’ll have to do your own research for the details. I’d love to see them.

I think the distinctions have been made clearly enough… As many ways as there are to cause any kind of bad thing to happen that is not “morally wrong” (which would, I suppose, in God’s case be limited to the direct causation of spiritual ruin) can be done by God.

Regarding “confusion,” try making as many distinctions as possible, then the difficulty should be cleared. As the scholastic saying goes, “Never deny, seldom affirm, always distinguish.”