Can God exist with Sin?

[Daniel_Marsh]

facts are:

God exists and is Omniprescent.

Sin exists on earth and in hell.

God is prescent on earth and in hell therefore God can choose to exist in the prescense of sin.

If God can not exist in the prescence of sin then,

Jesus as God-Man could not incarnate into a world that is sinful,

The Holy Spirit can not indwell, nor even fill Christians today in a sinful world, and Christians do have a sin nature thus God would not be able to dwell in those who have a sin nauture.

Whats’ your thinking on these above ideas?

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

God exists and is Omniprescent.

Yep

Sin exists on earth and in hell.

Yes for the first one. As for the second I have doubt. I’m not a theologian but I think there might be a problem with this idea. Hell is is the total separation from God and thus I think God’s commandments don’t apply to it and thus cannot be broken. There is no sin in the traditional sense.

God is prescent on earth and in hell therefore God can choose to exist in the prescense of sin.

God is a state of being totally separated from God. God is not in hell.

Jesus as God-Man could not incarnate into a world that is sinful,

God can exist in the presence of sin though I’m not sure what you mean. Sin is an act and not a place. Also God is omnipresent.

You can’t really make a statement like “God can’t cross a radius of 3 meters around an area where sin happens.”

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Would not omnipresent mean he is presresent everywhere?

Psalm 139:8 (King James Version)
If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

Note: hell here can mean the grave.

My point, is God is powerful enough to be anywhere. If there is somewher he is not, it is because he has choosen not to be there.

Technically, Hell proper does not come into existence until after the resurrection, when the grave and wicked are thrown into the lake of fire.

Luke 16, may give us a hint, since the wicked man did not pray to God, but instead addressed Abraham whom he could see from a distance.

I am thinking unless God chooses not to be somewhere, then he is by default there. Thus God is “around” us on earth so to speak. But, so is sin at the same time.

What do you all see?

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Would not omnipresent mean he is presresent everywhere?

Yep

Technically, Hell proper does not come into existence until after the resurrection, when the grave and wicked are thrown into the lake of fire.

No. Hell is the total separation of God. I don’t think you can claim that hell was created just like you can’t say that darkness was created after light came.

Luke 16, may give us a hint, since the wicked man did not pray to God, but instead addressed Abraham whom he could see from a distance.

The Parable about the Rich Man is taking place in Hades/Sheol.

I am thinking unless God chooses not to be somewhere, then he is by default there. Thus God is “around” us on earth so to speak. But, so is sin at the same time.

OK, but I’m really not sure what you’re trying to prove or find out.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.

Rev 20:7-15 about the lake of fire

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things

He created darkness…by the very fact that he created dark and the possibility for lights to ever go out.

But still, I do not see what point you’re making. Yes, God can exist in the world surrounded by sin.

 

[toaslan]

Hi! hey, here’s my bit:

facts are:

Sin exists on earth and in hell.

Contrarywise–Sin does not exist at all–rather, it is a lack of existence.

Daniel, you are thinking of sin as of a thing having being. If you think of sin as a distortion, warping, draining away of being you will have a better idea of sin.

Sin is like blindness. A man who is blind lacks a power he ought to have. He is deprived of the ability to see. He doesn’t “have” blindness–he is deprived of sight.

Sin is a lack of goodness and being. The greater the sin, the less the being (the less actuality or reality there is to the situation). So mortal sin is death–absence of life.

Remember who God is–I AM.

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things

When a light comes on, shadows result. Both things, light and dark, are thus created–but in different senses. The first, the light, by its absence gives us darkness.

God is prescent on earth and in hell…

God is not present in hell. As Gandalf the White reminds us, the definition of hell is eternal separation from God.

Gandalf:

Hell is the total separation of God. I don’t think you can claim that hell was created just like you can’t say that darkness was created after light came.

right!

Technically, Hell proper does not come into existence until after the resurrection, when the grave and wicked are thrown into the lake of fire.

By “technically”, do you mean that hell does not become an actual place until there are bodies to enter it and suffer bodily pain? (Because bodies determine place.) With that I would tend to agree. But it certainly exists now as a state of suffering–and, provided he did not repent, I expect Judas’ soul is suffering that state now.

Can you see how, if sin is a lack of being, an absence rather than a presence, that the question of whether God exists with sin starts to disappear? God IS; sin has no is-ness.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

He created darkness…by the very fact that he created dark and the possibility for lights to ever go out.

Sorry, I meant: …by the very fact that he created light…

 

[Teflon93]

facts are:

God exists and is Omniprescent.

Sin exists on earth and in hell.

God is prescent on earth and in hell therefore God can choose to exist in the prescense of sin.

If God can not exist in the prescence of sin then,

Jesus as God-Man could not incarnate into a world that is sinful,

The Holy Spirit can not indwell, nor even fill Christians today in a sinful world, and Christians do have a sin nature thus God would not be able to dwell in those who have a sin nauture.

Whats’ your thinking on these above ideas?

Can man exist in manure?

Surely he can.

Does he prefer to do so?

No.

Sin is manure in the eyes of God. It is deeply offensive and repellent, which is why He required purification of the Temple before presiding there.

It is also why it is a mortal sin to take the Eucharist while in a state of mortal sin. It is the like dipping God into manure.

This should also help us to understand why Jesus was so angry when he came to the Temple, and why he insisted upon purifying it before he retired to the Mount of Olives.

The notion of Christ “throwing a cloak” over sin is fairly ridiculous in this light—tossing a cloak over a manure pile doesn’t make it smell any sweeter; it simply soils the cloak.

Sin must be removed as filth is washed from our bodies before we can be truly pleasing in the sight of God.

 

[Keikiolu]

facts are:

God exists and is Omniprescent.

Sin exists on earth and in hell.

God is prescent on earth and in hell therefore God can choose to exist in the prescense of sin.

If God can not exist in the prescence of sin then,

Jesus as God-Man could not incarnate into a world that is sinful,

The Holy Spirit can not indwell, nor even fill Christians today in a sinful world, and Christians do have a sin nature thus God would not be able to dwell in those who have a sin nauture.

Whats’ your thinking on these above ideas?

God PUTS UP WITH sin, it’s not something that “excludes His presence”.

Therefore, your “thesis” is nonsense, as nothing “excludes” God’s presence.

What is the REAL question you’re asking, in this roundabout manner?

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.