Can God lie?

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Quick question, can anyone tell me if Church teaching addresses whether or not God can lie? Thanks!
 
tonsofquestions said:
Quick question, can anyone tell me if Church teaching addresses whether or not God can lie? Thanks!
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From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

III. GOD, “HE WHO IS”, IS TRUTH AND LOVE

214 God, “HE WHO IS”, revealed himself to Israel as the one “abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness”.27 These two terms express summarily the riches of the divine name. In all his works God displays, not only his kindness, goodness, grace and steadfast love, but also his trustworthiness, constancy, faithfulness and truth. "I give thanks to your name for your steadfast love and your faithfulness."28 He is the Truth, for “God is light and in him there is no darkness”; “God is love”, as the apostle John teaches.29

God is Truth

215 "The sum of your word is truth; and every one of your righteous ordinances endures forever."30 “And now, O LORD God, you are God, and your words are true”;31 this is why God’s promises always come true.32 God is Truth itself, whose words cannot deceive. This is why one can abandon oneself in full trust to the truth and faithfulness of his word in all things. The beginning of sin and of man’s fall was due to a lie of the tempter who induced doubt of God’s word, kindness and faithfulness.

216 God’s truth is his wisdom, which commands the whole created order and governs the world.33 God, who alone made heaven and earth, can alone impart true knowledge of every created thing in relation to himself.34

217 God is also truthful when he reveals himself - the teaching that comes from God is “true instruction”.35 When he sends his Son into the world it will be “to bear witness to the truth”:36 "We know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, to know him who is true."37

30 Ps 119:160.
31 2 Sam 7:28.
32 Cf. Deut 7:9.
33 Cf. Wis 13:1-9.
34 Cf. Ps 115:15; Wis 7:17-21.
35 Mal 2:6.
36 Jn 18:37.
37 1 Jn 5:20; cf. Jn 17:3.

scborromeo.org/ccc/p1s2c1p1.htm
 
just an observation but I’m pretty sure that God can do anything he wants to do. A better question might be will he lie?
 
Peter_Dawson said:
There are verses in the Bible where Jesus appears to tell an intentional lie, of a minor sort.
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And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet. - Ezekiel 14:9

For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie. - 2 Thessalonians 2:11

Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people. - Jeremiah 4:10

rossum
 
Similar question, methinks, to “Can God make a rock so big that he himself cannot lift it?”.
 
1 Kings 22:23 The Lord has put a lying spirit into the mouth of all these your prophets.

Ezekiel 14:9 And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.

2 Chronicles 18:21-22
" ‘I will go and be a lying spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,’ he said. " ‘You will succeed in enticing him,’ said the LORD. ‘Go and do it.’“So now the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouths of these prophets of yours. The LORD has decreed disaster for you.”
 
Hebrews 6:18
18 so that by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we who have taken refuge might be strongly encouraged to hold fast to the hope that lies before us.

Titus 1:2
2 in the hope of eternal life that God, who does not lie, promised before time began,
 
tonsofquestions said:
Quick question, can anyone tell me if Church teaching addresses whether or not God can lie? Thanks!
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Please define what you mean by a lie.
If I were to define a lie, I would say that a lie is a form of communication with the primary intent to deceive some one who has the right to know the truth.
God most certainly would not lie in such a circumstance.
 
I bet God only allows people to lie to themselves(other then allowing people to lie to each other with the possibility of the truth becoming known).

I also have to add, what is a lie? If there is a mountain behind a tree that one cannot see, is it a lie that it is not seen? Or is it merely that the whole truth is not known, or cannot be known?

As to that question about can he create a rock so big he can’t lift it…would he want to not?
 
I frequently advise people that in this crazy world we are left with, barefaced lying – really, really good skillful lying – is sometimes morally required.
 
Peter_Dawson said:
I frequently advise people that in this crazy world we are left with, barefaced lying – really, really good skillful lying – is sometimes morally required.
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Laudetur Iesus Christus.

Dear Peter:

This is directly contrary to the gospel. You should not so advise people.

Holy Church teaches:

A good intention (for example, that of helping one’s neighbor) does not make behavior that is intrinsically disordered, such as lying and calumny, good or just. The end does not justify the means. Thus the condemnation of an innocent person cannot be justified as a legitimate means of saving the nation. On the other hand, an added bad intention (such as vainglory) makes an act evil that, in and of itself, can be good (such as almsgiving). (1997 Catechism of the Catholic Church 1753, emphasis added by JRH.)

Intentio bona (exempli gratia: proximum adiuvare) nec bonum nec iustum reddit modum agendi qui in se ipso esset deordinatus (sicut mendacium et maledicentia). Finis media non iustificat. Sic innocentis damnatio iustificari non potest tamquam medium legitimum ad populum salvandum. E contra, mala intentio superaddita (sicut gloria vana) malum reddit actum qui in se potest bonus esse (sicut eleemosyna (cf. Mt 6,2-4) ). (1997 Catechismus Cath. Eccl. 1753)​

For help in discerning the correct methods of moral analysis, one should study the third part of the 1997 Catechism, “Life in Christ.” By way of introduction to this material, an excellent series of lectures by the late Msgr. William Smith, called, “Catholic Morality and the Catechism,” is available on the EWTN website at ewtn.com/vondemand/audio/seriessearchprog.asp?seriesID=6608&T1=morality.

It is important that Catholics, who may not have been given very thorough training in morality, realize that the Church has a specific and demanding system of moral analysis which flows directly from the Lord’s teachings. It requires the direct rejection of “utilitarianism,” “formalism,” and “relativism” as systems for analyzing moral questions. It is quite exciting. I recommend Msgr. Smith’s talks.

When I was in school studying modern philosophy, I had no idea that the Church’s guidance on this point was so specific and helpful. (By way of excuse I was in college from 1976 through 1980, so I did not have the Catechism to make this easy for me – but I should have known. The Catechism just makes it easier.)

Your impression may be correct that the “way of the world” obliges one to lie and to do so consummately. But this is because the Spirit of the World has been a murderer and a liar from the beginning. Submitting to his command to lie is his means of murdering you. Do not submit.

Be sober, be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking some one to devour. Resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same experience of suffering is required of your brotherhood throughout the world. (1 Peter (RSV) 5:8-9.)

Spiritus Sapientiae nobiscum.

John Hiner
 
God can stop someone’s use of free will by hardening their heart. If that is God being truthful with humans, only God knows.
 
No, God can not lie, as this would negate who he is, the Truth. Just like God can’t be the devil or evil - it negates who he is, Love and Goodness. It’s an impossibility.
 
ready said:
No, God can not lie, as this would negate who he is, the Truth. Just like God can’t be the devil or evil - it negates who he is, Love and Goodness. It’s an impossibility.
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Nobody “knows” God in entirety as is stated here often. Also claimed here is that even in heaven not one will fully “know” God. So, why do you claim that it is an impossibility? In fact, why does anyone claim he is always Love and always Goodness?
Why does God have to be Love and Good? What would be the problem with that not always being the case?
 
StrawberryJam said:
Nobody “knows” God in entirety as is stated here often. Also claimed here is that even in heaven not one will fully “know” God. So, why do you claim that it is an impossibility? In fact, why does anyone claim he is always Love and always Goodness?
Why does God have to be Love and Good? What would be the problem with that not always being the case?
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The Bible tells us who God is. He is all good, all powerful, all knowing, all merciful, all honorable - without a crooked thought or deed in his being - and Jesus proves this with his life. The Bible also tells us who the devil is - the father of lies, a prowling lion seeking someone to devour, etc. - the enemy of God. The Catholic Catechism of the Catholic Church also teaches us who God is and who the devil is. I go by what the Holy Church teaches - not by the dictates of my own feelings or opinions - or by other pagan religions. There exists objective truth and it is contained in our Holy Catholic Church dogmas and doctrines handed down from our ancestors and preserved in her deposit of faith. I suggest you conform yourself to this objective truth I speak of, before you suffer devastatingly, if not in this life, in the next. I don’t mean to offend you, I just want you to wake up and know the Good News…which neither contradicts or leaves us stupid and dull in knowing the Way, the Truth, and the Life (Jesus: Love and Truth) and our enemy (Satan). You sound confused in your attempt to be inclusive, not to offend you.
 
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