Can good strong Catholics really be secular leaders..?

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I’m having trouble understanding how a good strong Catholic can be a “leader” in the secular world… If this is really possible, then I’d like some examples --and don’t give names like Kennedy, Pelosi, etc… I’m looking for outstanding Catholics who base their entire existence on God through Church teaching.

You see, Catholics are suposed to be “meek”. We’re supposed to act out on the virtues of: Temperance, charity, patience, kindness and humility… Yes HUMILITY…!

So how can a faithful Catholic be a solid leader in today’s secular world, working in a completely secular environment…?
 
TEPO said:
I’m having trouble understanding how a good strong Catholic can be a “leader” in the secular world… If this is really possible, then I’d like some examples --and don’t give names like Kennedy, Pelosi, etc… I’m looking for outstanding Catholics who base their entire existence on God through Church teaching.

You see, Catholics are suposed to be “meek”. We’re supposed to act out on the virtues of: Temperance, charity, patience, kindness and humility… Yes HUMILITY…!

So how can a faithful Catholic be a solid leader in today’s secular world, working in a completely secular environment…?
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Take a look at Sargent Shriver’s life (he recently died, father in law to “Arnold”). Devout, daily communicant, lived in the world, stood by his principles.

Take a look at Ambassador Kmiec who just submitted his resignation to the President Obama last week (takes effect on August 15, the Feast of the Assumption!!!).

Some Catholics get mad at these Catholics for not taking stands against Democrats who are pushing abortion, etc. But I think their point is that good Catholics need to be everywhere…working, giving example from the inside.
 
In this day and age no.It’s assumed readily in the dem.party.Ask this question who in either party votes or even discusses contraception?Its passe.Abortion is now the issue.How did we come this far?
 
TEPO said:
I’m having trouble understanding how a good strong Catholic can be a “leader” in the secular world… If this is really possible, then I’d like some examples --and don’t give names like Kennedy, Pelosi, etc… I’m looking for outstanding Catholics who base their entire existence on God through Church teaching.

You see, Catholics are suposed to be “meek”. We’re supposed to act out on the virtues of: Temperance, charity, patience, kindness and humility… Yes HUMILITY…!

So how can a faithful Catholic be a solid leader in today’s secular world, working in a completely secular environment…?
Click to expand...
I’m not sure how living the virtues you list above precludes one from being a leader…We do what we are called by God to do. If that calling is to public life then…we should go for it.

I wonder too…Are you talking about being leaders ONLY in the political realm, or can examples come from other walks of secular life?

I’m sorry I don’t have ansy specific examples, but I’m sure others will supply some.

Peace
James
 
I think that good strong catholic leaders are out there but they don’t wave a catholic flag around so that you don’t know who they are. But they allow their faith to enrich their decisions, conduct and interaction with others. On the other hand, if you mean leaders who would refuse to do business with a company that might support Planned Parenthood, or with a health insurance company which pays for abortions, or work in a company that offers benefits to demostic partners, well, you might have difficulty finding them…
 
Civilization progresses much like a big massive ship.

A good catholic can rise to the level of captain and slowly change the direction of our society by moving the rudder slightly.

If I can extend this analogy, the personal judgement rests in how much change can be absorbed by society and ultimately effective in the long term.

Face it, we need good leaders and if they are available, a good catholic leader.
 
JRKH said:
I’m not sure how living the virtues you list above precludes one from being a leader…We do what we are called by God to do. If that calling is to public life then…we should go for it.

I wonder too…Are you talking about being leaders ONLY in the political realm, or can examples come from other walks of secular life?

I’m sorry I don’t have ansy specific examples, but I’m sure others will supply some.

Peace
James
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Thanks James, for asking. No I’m not actually talking about politics at all, more specifically I’m wondering if normal everyday people can be good leaders - while being completely devout Catholics…

Take for examples Henry Ford, Thomas Jefferson and Bill Gates. These men were “non-Catholic” great leaders, who did great things for the world -but have also been accused of acting abusive to others and sometimes even their families.

I’m having trouble understanding how being a leader in a profit driven world is compatable with Catholicism…

I guess I’m just wondering --if I refuse to be this type of leader, and by refusing this, I may face demotion or loss of employment causing my family to fall into poverty, would I be doing good or bad.
 
Well, first off, for a good Catholic to get in a position of leadership on a larger level would be very surprising. Second, if one did get in, I doubt that he could do much alone. If he got into a position of such power that he could make a big difference, I would look for him to be hampered as much as possible, then kept out next election period, forcibly removed, or assassinated. That’s just the way the world works these days.
 
The virtues are traits of good leaders. Living out the virtues makes one a good leader. There is nothing in Catholic teaching the conflicts with service to country and the leadership of others in various circles.
 
In terms of a political career, I don’t believe it’s possible to move up, even on the far right. What conservative Republicans would put up with a good Catholic wanting to outlaw contraception? In today’s political climate it’s impossible.

In the Catholic world I believe it would be a lot easier, however still extremely hard, considering the Church has gone very far left in the past 50 years as well.:eek:
 
YES, they can. And I submit that more good Catholics should seek leadership positions in all areas and levels of secular society.

But let us also remember that St Peter had his weaknesses too. A Catholic leader is not required to be perfect, but rather to do his or her best to lead according to Moral Law.

In football, Vince Lombardi is acknowledged as one of the very best leaders in his sport. The Super Bowl trophy bears his name. Coach Lombardi was a daily communicant at Mass all his life and often served Mass. So when the best coach ever is serving Mass, a coach who does not tolerate less than best efforts boarding on near perfection, what does the Priest think?
 
The_Curt_Jester said:
Well, first off, for a good Catholic to get in a position of leadership on a larger level would be very surprising. Second, if one did get in, I doubt that he could do much alone. If he got into a position of such power that he could make a big difference, I would look for him to be hampered as much as possible, then kept out next election period, forcibly removed, or assassinated. That’s just the way the world works these days.
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That’s why you can’t find a single Catholic on the Supreme Court. :rolleyes:
 
JRKH said:
I wonder too…Are you talking about being leaders ONLY in the political realm, or can examples come from other walks of secular life?
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Thanks for asking… No, my question has little to do with politics, although political leaders are not exempt from my question.

I’m wondering about leaders in any field, such as business, blue collar, or other leaders who work in a profit driven environment.

Look to Henry Ford, Thomas Jefferson, or Bill Gates… All great non-Catholic leaders who have also been accused of acting abusive to others whether co-workers, family members, or aquaintances.

I’m wondering if it’s possible for a person to be a great leader AND a good solid Catholic.

Let’s face it… For devout Catholics clergy and teachers have it made in the shade. But there are other devout Catholics (like myself) who go to battle every day, and fight for their dignity in the profit driven world. I for example am be-littled by my superiors when I show any signs of compassion, patience, charity, kindness, or humility… In fact, I’ve been ridiculed and be-littled for expressing these very virtues towards other employees, whom I am supposed to “lead”.

But lets not make this about me…! My question is in general ONLY…!
 
If I misrepresent what you are saying, then please forgive me. I do not intend to accuse you of anything. It appears, by virtue of your second post, that you are not seeking examples, as much as rules of guidance. In other words, you are seeking the How To’s more than the Whodunnits. Plainly, one could not fail to find multitude upon multitude of examples of strong, faithful Catholics who have lived exemplary lives as secular leaders of various kinds. To whit: Charles V of Spain, Louis IX of France, Charles Carroll of Carrollton, St. Robert Bellarmine, St. Charles Borromeo, St. Philip Neri, St. John Bosco, Ven. Pius XII, and Bl. John Paul II, to name a few.
Concerning the how to’s of living the Catholic life in the world, I can offer no better example than that of Christ and the saints. If we ignore their example as too lofty for “normal people” to follow, then we ignore the very purpose and definition of true leadership, and of their example: to bring others to God through Christ. As Catholics, we possess the fulness of truth; what is more, we possess the key to suffering in this world. Hence, every one of our sacrifices can be turned to good, through the inestimable Grace of God. True leadership and sacrifice are indivisible. Not one of the leaders listed above escaped great sacrifice for a righteous cause. They all endured ostracism, taunts, threats, fears, insults, and many other things. What brought them above all these evils was the manner the faced them: with love and consideration for their persecutors, and complete trust in the Wisdom of God for their salvation. Every leader is called to act in like manner. And no one ever said it would be easy. But Christ is there every step of the way, if we just look for Him. All it takes is a pause, a breath, a thought, and He will be at our side to aid us.
Many blessings to you all from Rome, the seat of the Church and of the martyrs, and Happy Easter.

P.S. There is a Catholic Judge on the Supreme Court: Clarence Thomas. He attends St. Andrew the Apostle Catholic Church in Clifton, VA. The more people we support, and the more we ourselves take up the reins, the more we will gain through our efforts. Nothing is beyond hope with Christ. One thing we cannot do is give up. If we do, then we throw away the fruits of victory already won for us by Christ. Keep trying. God bless you all.
 
sandomenico said:
If I misrepresent what you are saying, then please forgive me. I do not intend to accuse you of anything. It appears, by virtue of your second post, that you are not seeking examples, as much as rules of guidance. In other words, you are seeking the How To’s more than the Whodunnits. Plainly, one could not fail to find multitude upon multitude of examples of strong, faithful Catholics who have lived exemplary lives as secular leaders of various kinds. To whit: Charles V of Spain, Louis IX of France, Charles Carroll of Carrollton, St. Robert Bellarmine, St. Charles Borromeo, St. Philip Neri, St. John Bosco, Ven. Pius XII, and Bl. John Paul II, to name a few.
Concerning the how to’s of living the Catholic life in the world, I can offer no better example than that of Christ and the saints. If we ignore their example as too lofty for “normal people” to follow, then we ignore the very purpose and definition of true leadership, and of their example: to bring others to God through Christ. As Catholics, we possess the fulness of truth; what is more, we possess the key to suffering in this world. Hence, every one of our sacrifices can be turned to good, through the inestimable Grace of God. True leadership and sacrifice are indivisible. Not one of the leaders listed above escaped great sacrifice for a righteous cause. They all endured ostracism, taunts, threats, fears, insults, and many other things. What brought them above all these evils was the manner the faced them: with love and consideration for their persecutors, and complete trust in the Wisdom of God for their salvation. Every leader is called to act in like manner. And no one ever said it would be easy. But Christ is there every step of the way, if we just look for Him. All it takes is a pause, a breath, a thought, and He will be at our side to aid us.
Many blessings to you all from Rome, the seat of the Church and of the martyrs, and Happy Easter.

P.S. There is a Catholic Judge on the Supreme Court: Clarence Thomas. He attends St. Andrew the Apostle Catholic Church in Clifton, VA. The more people we support, and the more we ourselves take up the reins, the more we will gain through our efforts. Nothing is beyond hope with Christ. One thing we cannot do is give up. If we do, then we throw away the fruits of victory already won for us by Christ. Keep trying. God bless you all.
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Thanks for your blessings, sandomenico, and thanks for your advice… These were the answers I was hoping to get, and am relieved to have gotten them.

Happy Easter to you. 🙂
 
It is true, we should be thankful for the great catholic leaders we have.

Thanks.
 
TEPO said:
I’m having trouble understanding how a good strong Catholic can be a “leader” in the secular world… If this is really possible, then I’d like some examples --and don’t give names like Kennedy, Pelosi, etc… I’m looking for outstanding Catholics who base their entire existence on God through Church teaching.

You see, Catholics are suposed to be “meek”. We’re supposed to act out on the virtues of: Temperance, charity, patience, kindness and humility… Yes HUMILITY…!

So how can a faithful Catholic be a solid leader in today’s secular world, working in a completely secular environment…?
Click to expand...
Let me pose thios question. Can a non-Catholic who practices temperance, charity, patience, kindness and humility be a good leader in a secular world? Those virtues are not distinctly Catholic. I would submit that there have been many great and good leaders who practice these virtues in varying degrees. Therefore, I see no reason why a Catholic can not lead in a secular world. Secularism, in terms of political leadership, simply means seperation of church and state. It does not mean that leaders need be immoral, or that they should necessarily support morally relativistic laws. I also dispute the statement that Catholics have to be meek all the time. Jesus wasn’t meek when he went through the Temple, railing at the money lenders.
 
Samuel63 said:
Civilization progresses much like a big massive ship.

A good catholic can rise to the level of captain and slowly change the direction of our society by moving the rudder slightly.

If I can extend this analogy, the personal judgement rests in how much change can be absorbed by society and ultimately effective in the long term.

Face it, we need good leaders and if they are available, a good catholic leader.
Click to expand...
the only problem is that to be of high rank in either political party you are forced to make concessions because neither party is a Catholic party.A good Catholic may be able to get elected to a state legislature or some city office but he’s unable to go far.Let’s face it this country isn’t Catholic.And there’s a big difference between Catholic and christian.
 
1ke said:
The virtues are traits of good leaders. Living out the virtues makes one a good leader. There is nothing in Catholic teaching the conflicts with service to country and the leadership of others in various circles.
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Just an aggsaturation.Could a good Catholic priest become a legislator?I don’t think so.
 
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