Can he be a Catholic Priest?

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I am happy to see you finally added that. There are also certainly situations where a priest or deacon would not serve a bishop even if it did not include sin. The most obvious thing that comes to mind is serving a bishop where doing so harms one’s own reputation.
The only thing that frees a priest or deacon from his promise of obedience (or in the case of a regular priest or deacon, his vow of obedience) is when to follow that obedience would cause him to commit a sin.

Protection of one’s own reputation is not necessarily such a case.
 
There is absolutely no question that a bishop can do wrong by refusing to ordain a given man if his refusal is for the wrong reasons.
No one has a right to ordination, and no one is called/has a vocation until the bishop says yes. There are no ‘wrong’ reasons. The bishop may be capricious, but he is not sinning to refuse any given man.

Those considering a consecrated life do well to understand how the church works and what obedience means. The Church is not a democracy, and unless the bishop asks someone to outright sin, his priests must obey him. As laity, we are not bound under the same vows, but we would do well to obey our bishops in all thing but sin as well.
 
I am sorry but there is no such thing as a “wrong” reason.

The Call to Ordination is solely at the discretion of the bishop or religious superior.

One might say that there could be an unfair reasons but they would also be wrong as no man has a right to ordination.
You are quite mistaken. Bishops are human too. A bishop could fail to ordain a man for a number of personal prejudices including spite. You wouldn’t be aware of that of course in individual situations but that doesn’t mean the potential is not there.
 
No one has a right to ordination, and no one is called/has a vocation until the bishop says yes. There are no ‘wrong’ reasons. The bishop may be capricious, but he is not sinning to refuse any given man.

Those considering a consecrated life do well to understand how the church works and what obedience means. The Church is not a democracy, and unless the bishop asks someone to outright sin, his priests must obey him. As laity, we are not bound under the same vows, but we would do well to obey our bishops in all thing but sin as well.
All bishops are still more than capable of refusing to ordain men for the wrong reasons. In most such cases only they would be aware of the wrong reason of course. Being bishops however does not magically turn that wrong reason into a righteous reason. The rejection is still in force but it does not mean that it was done for the right reason(s.)
 
You are quite mistaken. Bishops are human too. A bishop could fail to ordain a man for a number of personal prejudices including spite. You wouldn’t be aware of that of course in individual situations but that doesn’t mean the potential is not there.
Obviously the potential is there. Nevertheless, the Church says that unless a Bishop ordains him, the man does not have a vocation. It has happened many, many times in the past that a man is refused by a Bishop for what seems like a personal prejudice, but that man goes on to serve God and fulfill the vocation put before him. In the cases of some Saints, the man does go on to become a religious in a different order, or to be ordained by a different Bishop, in other cases he remains a layman and still serves God.

What ByzCath is saying is that we do not have the right to judge the Bishop’s reasons and declare them ‘right’ or ‘wrong’. The Church gives full authority to the Bishop to decide and we have no say and should have no comment after the fact.
 
Obviously the potential is there. Nevertheless, the Church says that unless a Bishop ordains him, the man does not have a vocation. It has happened many, many times in the past that a man is refused by a Bishop for what seems like a personal prejudice, but that man goes on to serve God and fulfill the vocation put before him. In the cases of some Saints, the man does go on to become a religious in a different order, or to be ordained by a different Bishop, in other cases he remains a layman and still serves God.

What ByzCath is saying is that we do not have the right to judge the Bishop’s reasons and declare them ‘right’ or ‘wrong’. The Church gives full authority to the Bishop to decide and we have no say and should have no comment after the fact.
I’m not judging anyone. I am pointing out that bishops are human. They could well reject a man for ordination for a non-righteous reason. There is no divine guarantee that keeps them from doing so. And if a bishop rejected a man for a non-righteous reason (there are a huge number including things such as: one’s ethnic heritage, one’s physical height or weight, one’s national origin, one’s eye color, etc. etc. etc.) it would not magically become a righteous reason simply because he was a bishop. His decision would remain in effect (in most cases but even that can become political and marginalized in some situations) but there is absolutely no guarantee that it was made for righteous reasons.
 
I’m not judging anyone. I am pointing out that bishops are human. They could well reject a man for ordination for a non-righteous reason. There is no divine guarantee that keeps them from doing so. And if a bishop rejected a man for a non-righteous reason (there are a huge number including things such as: one’s ethnic heritage, one’s physical height or weight, one’s national origin, one’s eye color, etc. etc. etc.) it would not magically become a righteous reason simply because he was a bishop. His decision would remain in effect (in most cases but even that can become political and marginalized in some situations) but there is absolutely no guarantee that it was made for righteous reasons.
If a bishop does not call a man forward for ordination then, regardless of the reason, that man does not have a vocation to serve that bishop. There is no right or wrong in this.

It is what it is.

This man may still have a vocation to the priesthood and may very well be called forward by another bishop or religious superior but that does not change the fact that he is not called to serve the bishop (or religious superior) who does not call him.

The issues you list could be called discrimination but since no man has a right to be ordained there can be no discrimination involved.
 
If a bishop does not call a man forward for ordination then, regardless of the reason, that man does not have a vocation to serve that bishop. There is no right or wrong in this.

It is what it is.

This man may still have a vocation to the priesthood and may very well be called forward by another bishop or religious superior but that does not change the fact that he is not called to serve the bishop (or religious superior) who does not call him.

The issues you list could be called discrimination but since no man has a right to be ordained there can be no discrimination involved.
I’m sorry but it most certainly possible for a bishop to deny ordaining a man for a non-righteous reason(s.) While only the bishop himself would know in most situations that a non-righteous reason caused him not to ordain someone, the fact remains that it is possible.

Further, bishops can be pressured (subtly or not) to ordain (or not ordain) someone.
 
I’m sorry but it most certainly possible for a bishop to deny ordaining a man for a non-righteous reason(s.) While only the bishop himself would know in most situations that a non-righteous reason caused him not to ordain someone, the fact remains that it is possible.

Further, bishops can be pressured (subtly or not) to ordain (or not ordain) someone.
Reasons are irrelevant. If the bishop does not call a man to orders that man does not have a calling to serve that bishop.
 
Vocation come from God, not from bishops.

They come through bishops but they are from God.

It most certainly is possible for a bishop not to ordain a man based on a non-righteous reason(s.) Reason(s) that would typically only be known to the bishop. There is nothing divine that eliminates this possibility.
 
Vocation come from God, not from bishops.

They come through bishops but they are from God.

It most certainly is possible for a bishop not to ordain a man based on a non-righteous reason(s.) Reason(s) that would typically only be known to the bishop. There is nothing divine that eliminates this possibility.
There is no call until it is verified by the Church. It is the Church that does the calling.

Can you without a doubt state that God does not work through the bishop? Can you say that even if the bishop uses “non-righteous” reasons that this is not the will of God?

Reasons are irrelevant. If a bishop/religious superior does not call a man forward for ordination then there is no call as the only way to verify a calling is for the Church, through a bishop/religious superior, actually calls the man forward. Without that call there is no calling. It is as simple as that.

As you say, a man may be called for any number of reasons, but that does not mean that the call is not present. Even if later on a man leaves, that does not mean a call was not present that is now gone. Our whole life is a process of discernment. Just because a man is ordained, that does not mean that the discernment process is over. That does not mean that at some point in his life he may be called to something else.
 
Actually it’s God that calls people to their vocations through His Church. In more practical terms for the ordained, that means through the bishops.

It’s simply wrong to suggest a vocation does not exist if it is never realized in practical terms. Many men are called to the priesthood and don’t respond for a number of reasons but it’s absurd to suggest the priestly vocation never existed because they did not respond to the call.

It’s equally absurd to suggest that God cannot call someone to a priestly vocation unless the cognizant bishop facilitates that call. A priestly vocation may never be realized because a bishop would not allow someone to be ordained but that in no way means it was never given by God. Once more, there is no divine mechanism that keeps a bishop from extinguishing a priestly vocation from God.
There is no call until it is verified by the Church. It is the Church that does the calling.

Can you without a doubt state that God does not work through the bishop? Can you say that even if the bishop uses “non-righteous” reasons that this is not the will of God?

Reasons are irrelevant. If a bishop/religious superior does not call a man forward for ordination then there is no call as the only way to verify a calling is for the Church, through a bishop/religious superior, actually calls the man forward. Without that call there is no calling. It is as simple as that.

As you say, a man may be called for any number of reasons, but that does not mean that the call is not present. Even if later on a man leaves, that does not mean a call was not present that is now gone. Our whole life is a process of discernment. Just because a man is ordained, that does not mean that the discernment process is over. That does not mean that at some point in his life he may be called to something else.
 
We have now way of determining God’s will except through the actions that take place in our time. A man can state all he likes that he has a vocation or a calling to the priesthood, but if the bishop does not ordain him, the man simply doesn’t. He may *want *to be a priest, he may be attracted to the studies, the lifestyle, the service, but if he is not called forward by a bishop, we must all understand that it is not God’s will.

Colt, you seem to have several friends who have struggled with their vocation, perhaps you have yourself, but it does no one any good to argue that a person’s feelings are all that we need to consider. Our feelings often distract or confuse us. The Church, through God, has a very concrete system of recognizing and nuturing vocations. We should not confuse the OP or others reading this thread by making it seem that the Bishops are generally capricious or not thoughful when calling men forward for ordination to the priesthood.
 
There is absolutely no question that a bishop can do wrong by refusing to ordain a given man if his refusal is for the wrong reasons.
That’s such a liberal new age attitude! 😛

Technically the Bishop requires zero reasoning to reject a candidate or seminarian. Obviously in today’s day and age there’s not an overwhelming supply of priests so Bishops are more reasoned in their approach to such things. However Poland has so many seminarians that basically if you don’t get straight A’s, you’re gone. In the “good old days” of the American seminary system (50’s and 60’s) guys were routinely expelled for simple rule violations. One priest I know was put on “probation” in the seminary the late 60’s because he stopped at a drug store on his way back from hospital rounds to buy a Mother’s Day card without permission.

When I entered seminary we were told at the opening conference: “You are here to discern if you want to be a priest, you are also here so that the Church can decide if She wants you to be a priest.”
 
That’s such a liberal new age attitude! 😛

**Technically the Bishop requires zero reasoning to reject a candidate or seminarian. ** Obviously in today’s day and age there’s not an overwhelming supply of priests so Bishops are more reasoned in their approach to such things. However Poland has so many seminarians that basically if you don’t get straight A’s, you’re gone. In the “good old days” of the American seminary system (50’s and 60’s) guys were routinely expelled for simple rule violations. One priest I know was put on “probation” in the seminary the late 60’s because he stopped at a drug store on his way back from hospital rounds to buy a Mother’s Day card without permission.

When I entered seminary we were told at the opening conference: “You are here to discern if you want to be a priest, you are also here so that the Church can decide if She wants you to be a priest.”
I’m not suggesting anything different. But if a bishop chose not to accept a man into seminary or ordain him, neither action guarantees said person never had a priestly vocation from God.
 
I’m not suggesting anything different. But if a bishop chose not to accept a man into seminary or ordain him, neither action guarantees said person never had a priestly vocation from God.
You are right. It does prove that he does not have a priestly vocation in this bishop’s diocese (or in the cause of a religious superior, no vocation to that religious institute (or maybe just that province of the religious institute)).

Having said that, I do not think any of us have said that it was so.
 
You are right. It does prove that he does not have a priestly vocation in this bishop’s diocese (or in the cause of a religious superior, no vocation to that religious institute (or maybe just that province of the religious institute)).

Having said that, I do not think any of us have said that it was so.
Vocations come from God and not from bishops. If a bishop refused to ordain a man then obviously that man’s priestly vocation will not be realized in that physical location (barring some pressure on the bishop that causes him to ordain the man or a replacement bishop that ends up ordaining the man) but it does not magically mean that God’s gift of a vocation did not exist, even for that location.
 
hello friends,
He’s supposed to have been engaging in “unorthodox practices”.
Reading between the lines, the church there is a very vibrant, loving
community and the priest accepts anybody without judgement.
This does not sit well with the Archbishop, whom I have never had
any time for - he’s an arrogant piece of work. I think the archbishop
is jealous of this priest. So, he’s excommunicated him. Simple
really - and oh, so Christian.

thanks

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My friend is catholic and got married in the Anglican Church. He did not get any dispensation to marry there. He is divorced now for 2 years with no children. He is now considering the Priesthood. Will he need any anulment since he did not marry in the catholic church?
yes he needs to go through the process, which in his case is called the case for lack of form, but it still is a formal process although not a full blown annulment. In addition he will need a dispensation from the law that says any man who has married or attempted marriage is barred from the priesthood. If he wants to be a priest he should be talking to the vocations director of his diocese already and getting information about his own specific case from that reliable source that comes from his own bishop, not with third parties and not on a general forumlike this.
 
Vocations come from God and not from bishops. If a bishop refused to ordain a man then obviously that man’s priestly vocation will not be realized in that physical location (barring some pressure on the bishop that causes him to ordain the man or a replacement bishop that ends up ordaining the man) but it does not magically mean that God’s gift of a vocation did not exist, even for that location.
So if the calling comes from God but the Church does not verify it, does it exist? How can you know?

If a man is not called then there is no calling, a calling does not exist without the Church.
 
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