Can he be the pastor?

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If a man in the seminary has not completed full seminarian ordination, can he be the pastor of a church?
 
CyrilSebastian said:
If a man in the seminary has not completed full seminarian ordination, can he be the pastor of a church?
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Cyril,
You’ve touched or a topic of life-altering consequences for me. Some Lutherans think they can, but our confession clearly deny it. And in agreement with that, Luther said:
Code: 
"If a layman should perform all the outward functions of a priest, celebrating Mass, confirming, absolving, administering the sacraments, dedicating altars, churches, vestments, vessels, etc., it is certain that these actions in all respects would be similar to those of a true priest, in fact, they might be performed more reverently and properly than the real ones. But because he has not been consecrated and ordained and sanctified, he performs nothing at all, but is only playing church and deceiving himself and his followers."
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Jon
 
CyrilSebastian said:
If a man in the seminary has not completed full seminarian ordination, can he be the pastor of a church?
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For Catholics, this man would have to have been ordained by a true bishop at some time. The seminary system is fairly new, in the past and in some Eastern non-Catholic Churches, in addition to formal education, it includes being the bishop’s apprentice, being a junior priest under a senior pastor, being sent to monasteries for months or years and more.
 
A seminarian could not be named the pastor because canon law confers upon the pastor, in virtue of that office, various rights and obligations by grant of the law. A seminarian, or one who is not a priest, is not capable of fulfilling those relative to the celebration of Mass for his parishioners, administration of the sacraments, the pastoral care of the sick and dying, and so forth.

Theoretically, he could be appointed as the administrator of the parish, which occurs with deacons, men and women religious and laity. It would not seem advisable because of the commitment he has to his formation as a seminarian. Even if it were in the context of a time of pastoral experience, that is supposed to be a time to learn under someone experienced and their tutelage…to be mentored.
 
CyrilSebastian said:
If a man in the seminary has not completed full seminarian ordination, can he be the pastor of a church?
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The Seminary is a school of formation for Priests and Deacons, however the “Ordination” is not carried our BY the Seminary but rather by the Bishop that sent the discerning student to study and discern fully if the consecrated life is for him.

Some Diocese do not have a Seminary hence they send their students to nearby ones.

In theory a Bishop can ordain anyone Priest or Deacon. There have been cases in history of Priests that did not have a particular high level of education and yet they became Saints because of their “vocation”. Also to be fair there have also been cases of ordained Priests that were horrible so it cuts both ways.
Vocation is “discerned” education has little to do with it. But they are not completely separate either.

I hope I have not confused you further 😊

…
 
JerryZ said:
The Seminary is a school of formation for Priests and Deacons, however the “Ordination” is not carried our BY the Seminary but rather by the Bishop that sent the discerning student to study and discern fully if the consecrated life is for him. … In theory a Bishop can ordain anyone Priest or Deacon.

I hope I have not confused you further 😊
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Aah… is that the question being asked? That is, not whether a man can be a pastor if he hasn’t been ordained, but whether he can be a pastor if he hasn’t completed the full course of study in seminary?
 
Gorgias said:
Aah… is that the question being asked? That is, not whether a man can be a pastor if he hasn’t been ordained, but whether he can be a pastor if he hasn’t completed the full course of study in seminary?
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My first impression, I thought it was asking about Protestant pastor, not about Catholic priests. But now you are saying it, hmmm.
 
Reuben_J said:
My first impression, I thought it was asking about Protestant pastor, not about Catholic priests. But now you are saying it, hmmm.
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There are churches in which the pastor is licensed, but not ordained.
 
JonNC said:
Cyril,
You’ve touched or a topic of life-altering consequences for me. Some Lutherans think they can, but our confession clearly deny it. And in agreement with that, Luther said:

Jon
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I am curious Jon, did Luther say this when still a Catholic or after becoming a Lutheran?
 
Wannano said:
I am curious Jon, did Luther say this when still a Catholic or after becoming a Lutheran?
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To my knowledge, it is “early Luther”, prior to his excommunication.
However, it is in agreement with Augsburg Confession article XIV, which is from 1530.
Melanchthon included article XIV because Eck was accusing the Lutherans of exactly this; allowing layman to preach and administer.
Article XIV: Of Ecclesiastical Order.
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Of Ecclesiastical Order they teach that no one should publicly teach in the Church or administer the Sacraments unless he be regularly called.
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Regularly called has always been thought to include ordination.

Jon
 
Michael68 said:
Thanx for the clarification. I think anybody can be a Protestant pastor. You can even be “ordained” through the internet with a license and tax exempt staus.
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Which protestant group allows their pastors to be ordained over the internet? Please be specific!

Jon
 
CyrilSebastian said:
The inquiry is about PROTESTANT PASTORS.
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What’s a “Protestant Pastor?”

I know Lutheran pastors, Methodist ministers, evangelical worship leaders, Old Catholic priests, and Anglican priests. Can’t say that I know a Protestant pastor.
 
Michael68 said:
Thanx for the clarification. I think anybody can be a Protestant pastor. You can even be “ordained” through the internet with a license and tax exempt staus.
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I have never heard of ordination via the Internet, maybe you could give an example? Jesus called uneducated fishermen to be his disciples. When I read about what all makes current priests and pastors valid etc. I wonder if the early church leaders weren’t more like how you perceive Protestant pastors to be other than the word Protestant had not been invented yet at least in its current contextual meaning.
 
JonNC said:
Which protestant group allows their pastors to be ordained over the internet? Please be specific!

Jon
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Sure thing Jon! Just google “become a pastor” and the answer will be crystal clear.
 
steido01 said:
What’s a “Protestant Pastor?”

I know Lutheran pastors, Methodist ministers, evangelical worship leaders, Old Catholic priests, and Anglican priests. Can’t say that I know a Protestant pastor.
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Good question. Personally, I associate exclusively with members of non-Protestant religions.
 
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