Can Holy Water be used for Baptism?

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And what does this have to do with salt?
A sacred minister who has the ecclesiastical rank of archbishop and who is a qualified theologian and canon lawyer will have a far greater knowledge of this matter than you.šŸ™‚
Is there any Catholic teaching you know of regarding salt?
Yes, there is.šŸ™‚
That was your original question, right?
Yes, you are correct, it was the original question?šŸ™‚
Or did I misunderstand?
Quite clearly yes you have.šŸ™‚

Pax et bonum:signofcross:
 
A sacred minister who has the ecclesiastical rank of archbishop and who is a qualified theologian and canon lawyer will have a far greater knowledge of this matter than you.šŸ™‚
Yes of course. And how does that answer my question?
 
Ok, I’m not a dentist, so at the risk of pulling teeth…such as?
I may be mistaken but I do not think that your profession is of relevance. There are teachings from the Church on blessing salt and its uses. If you wish to know what they are then please do not be lazy and ask me to find them for you. If you think that because I will not find them for you that they do not exist then you will, at your own free volition, have to remain ignorant of them. If you want to know them, some of them are readily available on the Internet.šŸ™‚
 
I may be mistaken but I do not think that your profession is of relevance. There are teachings from the Church on blessing salt and its uses. If you wish to know what they are then please do not be lazy and ask me to find them for you. If you think that because I will not find them for you that they do not exist then you will, at your own free volition, have to remain ignorant of them. If you want to know them, some of them are readily available on the Internet.šŸ™‚
Thanks again for your help and charitable contributions. This completely answered my question, again. Appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut.
 
Diggerdomer,

I originally posed the question to find out where I need to go to get the official teaching on the subject.

It was Archbishop Lawrence Khai of the Archdiocese of Thare Non Seng, Thailand who I served as his American Secretary who told me that baptismal water must be pure and that holy water cannot be used for baptism because it must contain at least some of the preservative salt. The reason for the salt is symbolic of the preservation of Eternal Life which Holy Water helps to bring about.

Since my intentions are to address a pastor on this, I felt I need the official documentation on this. Since I have not been able to get it here, I will look further in other places.

God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher, Founder & Chairman
Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc.
 
Diggerdomer,

I originally posed the question to find out where I need to go to get the official teaching on the subject.

It was Archbishop Lawrence Khai of the Archdiocese of Thare Non Seng, Thailand who I served as his American Secretary who told me that baptismal water must be pure and that holy water cannot be used for baptism because it must contain at least some of the preservative salt. The reason for the salt is symbolic of the preservation of Eternal Life which Holy Water helps to bring about.

Since my intentions are to address a pastor on this, I felt I need the official documentation on this. Since I have not been able to get it here, I will look further in other places.

God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher, Founder & Chairman
Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc.
May I ask a point of clarification. Are you saying that Archbishop Khai said holy water could not be used to baptise someone? For example, I have a plastic bottle in the shape of the BVM (tacky, I know, but that’s not relevant now) containing holy water, which a friend gave me as a gift they purchased in Lourdes. Therefore, the water in this bottle should not be used to baptise someone.

When a priest baptises someone (for the point of argument I am assuming everything is ā€˜normal’ and the baptism is prearranged and taking place in the parish church on Sunday afternoon - no rush or emergency about it) he blesses the water in the font. After the blessing surely that water is now holy water.
 
Diggerdomer,

I originally posed the question to find out where I need to go to get the official teaching on the subject.

It was Archbishop Lawrence Khai of the Archdiocese of Thare Non Seng, Thailand who I served as his American Secretary who told me that baptismal water must be pure and that holy water cannot be used for baptism because it must contain at least some of the preservative salt. The reason for the salt is symbolic of the preservation of Eternal Life which Holy Water helps to bring about.

Since my intentions are to address a pastor on this, I felt I need the official documentation on this. Since I have not been able to get it here, I will look further in other places.

God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher, Founder & Chairman
Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc.
Thanks!

If your Archbishop specifies something particular not required by the Catholic Church, then by all means yes, you need to consult with your local diocese. Peace.
 
Diggerdomer,

I originally posed the question to find out where I need to go to get the official teaching on the subject.

It was Archbishop Lawrence Khai of the Archdiocese of Thare Non Seng, Thailand who I served as his American Secretary who told me that baptismal water must be pure and that holy water cannot be used for baptism because it must contain at least some of the preservative salt. The reason for the salt is symbolic of the preservation of Eternal Life which Holy Water helps to bring about.

Since my intentions are to address a pastor on this, I felt I need the official documentation on this. Since I have not been able to get it here, I will look further in other places.

God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher, Founder & Chairman
Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc.
Part of the confusion here may be temporal - I don’t know just how long ago the archbishop told you about this, since sufficiently long ago salt would have been a required part of blessing holy water. But precluding any rather odd liturgical exception for his corner of East Asia, His Excellency was simply wrong about not being able to use holy water for baptism. A translation of the older Roman Ritual can be found here, and it spells out clearly that holy water is required for baptism under normal circumstances:
  1. The water for solemn baptism is that which has been blessed on the preceding vigil of Easter, and carefully preserved in a clean font to keep it pure. If new baptismal water is to be blessed, the old should be poured into the sacrarium in the sacristy, or preferably the sacrarium of the baptistery.
  2. If the baptismal water has so diminished that it is foreseen it will not suffice, unblessed water may be added even repeatedly, but in lesser quantity than the blessed each time this is done. If it becomes contaminated or has leaked out or in any way is deficient, the pastor will see to it that the font is thoroughly cleansed and replenished with fresh water, and proceed to bless it according to the form given below.
That form of blessing includes the infusion of blessed salt, which tanks the argument that holy water cannot be used because of its salt content. The current code of canons is explicit in maintaining the requirement of holy water (can. 853), which similarly disproves the assertion that holy water may not be used, although modern holy water need not contain salt.

The real hang-up, however, seems to turn on his contention that baptism must be administered with ā€œpureā€ water. While a quick scan through the canons didn’t turn up the money quote I was looking for, the same traditional Ritual includes the phrase just before the 2 paragraphs quoted above:
  1. First of all a pastor will understand that since the matter for this sacrament is real natural water, no other liquid may be used.
As you can see, the requirement is not that water be ā€œpure,ā€ as in some form of water distilled of all but its hydrogen and oxygen, but rather that water be ā€œrealā€ and ā€œnatural.ā€ Clearly ocean water is both real and natural, despite its salt content, so the mere presence of salt is not an issue. Rather, this requirement is meant to forestall questions about using substances other than water on the basis of their ā€œwater content.ā€ For instance, some might argue that one can baptize with beer, not because beer in itself is suitable matter but because beer contains water, which is the appropriate matter for the sacrament. But beer is not natural water; it is something made by combining water with other substances such that the result is no longer considered water itself. Clearly the requirement of real, natural water is not going to forestall all nitpicking about the exact point when a substance ceases to be water and starts to be some other liquid (how much Kool-Aid do you have to add before water ā€œbecomesā€ Kool-Aid?), but it does retain a ā€œduck testā€ for the matter for baptism. So, if I put a glass of this in front of you and said it was a glass of water, would you believe me? Would you, according to normal usage of the term, call this liquid water? If not, you don’t have valid matter.
 
Thank you for your replies.

Yesterday I asked my Pastor the same question, he is a Moral Theologian and taught Moral Theology, he said the same thing and also used the example of sea water. He also told me where to look for the answer, and it is in ā€œRituale Romanumā€

God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher, Founder & Chairman
Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc.
 
Yesterday I asked my Pastor the same question, he is a Moral Theologian and taught Moral Theology, he said the same thing and also used the example of sea water. He also told me where to look for the answer, and it is in ā€œRituale Romanumā€
What answer did he say? And where in the Rituale Romanum did he direct you to look?
 
Any water can be used for baptism, especially in an emergency. Keep in mind also that the rite for blessing holy water was changed substantially. Salt may no longer be necessary, though it once was. Baptism fonts and pools contain holy water. In many newer churches there are no longer separate fonts at each door for holy water, but one larger one that may contain an immersion pool. I disagree with this approach, but it is legitimate.
 
Unless time were of the essence, the water is blessed:

According to the CCC
1238 The baptismal water is consecrated by a prayer of epiclesis (either at this moment or at the Easter Vigil). The Church asks God that through his Son the power of the Holy Spirit may be sent upon the water, so that those who will be baptized in it may be "born of water and the Spirit."40

From the Rite of Baptism:
Then, turning to the font, he says the following blessing (outside the Easter season).

A. Father, you give us grace through sacramental signs, which tell us of the wonders of your unseen power. In baptism we use your gift of water, which you have made a rich symbol of the grace you give us in this sacrament. At the very dawn of creation your Spirit breathed on the waters, making them the wellspring of all holiness. The waters of the great flood you made a sign of the waters of baptism, that make an end of sin and a new beginning of goodness.

Through the waters of the Red Sea you led ?Israel out of slavery, to be an image of God’s holy people, set free from sin by baptism. In the waters of the Jordan your Son was baptized by John and anointed with the Spirit. Your Son willed that water and blood should flow from his side as he hung upon the cross.

After his resurrection he told his disciples: ā€œGo out and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.ā€ Father, look now with love upon your Church, and unseal for her the fountain of baptism. By the power of the Spirit give to the water of this font the grace of your Son. You created man in your own likeness: cleanse him from sin in a new birth to innocence by water and the Spirit.

The celebrant touches the water with his right hand and continues:

We ask you, Father, with your Son to send the Holy Spirit upon the water of this font. May all who are buried with Christ in the death of baptism rise also with him to newness of life. We ask this through Christ our Lord.

All: Amen.

B. C. Other forms may be chosen from nos. 223-224.

During the Easter season, if there is baptismal water which was consecrated at the Easter Vigil, the blessing and invocation of God over the water are nevertheless included, so that this theme of thanksgiving and petition may find a place in the baptism. The forms of this blessing and invocation are those found in nos. 223-224, with the variation indicated at the end of each text.
 
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