Can Holy Water remove venial sins?

[Anathama_Sit]

Greetings Catholic Answers Forum,

I was reading in another thread a statement that I found very new and that I have not run across in the many years I have studies the Faith and Theology. But who knows, I may learn something yet.

1. Can Holy Water remove venial sins? - I need actual references with your answers if you answer yes. Magisterial documents would be most helpful if you could provide them.

I expressed in the thread that I did not think that this is correct. However, I am open to it being correct should it be correct.

I am doing some research on this, but I thought I would enlist Catholic Answers Forum in getting to the bottom of this.

Thank you for reading this and answering this thread.

God Bless.
Anathama Sit

 

[Blenderx]

Its always something I understood to be so.

I know the Summa tells us it does: newadvent.org/summa/4087.htm

 

[Bookcat]

St. Thomas already explained things…

I will add a related section of the Catechism:

From the Catechism:

1436 Eucharist and Penance. Daily conversion and penance find their source and nourishment in the Eucharist, for in it is made present the sacrifice of Christ which has reconciled us with God. Through the Eucharist those who live from the life of Christ are fed and strengthened. "It is a remedy to free us from our daily faults and to preserve us from mortal sins."35

1437 Reading Sacred Scripture, praying the Liturgy of the Hours and the Our Father - every sincere act of worship or devotion revives the spirit of conversion and repentance within us and contributes to the forgiveness of our sins.

vatican.va/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm

 

[Newbie2]

Its always something I understood to be so.

I know the Summa tells us it does: newadvent.org/summa/4087.htm

Actually, it does not. If read carefully, it says “conduce”, which means contributes toward.

If one is merely sprinkled with holy water without some measure of contrition, one merely gets wet. Contrition is necessary for forgiveness.

 

[Anathama_Sit]

Greetings to those of you who posted in this thread,

I did find what St. Thomas told us, but again I read much importance into the world “conduce.”

I am thinking that if Holy Water did remove venial sins there would be more written in Church Tradition and other Church Fathers.

I am still reseraching though and thank you for your assistance. IF any of you come up with any relevant material to this thread, please by all means contribute.

Greetings Bookcat,

I think that actually contributing to the forgiveness of sins is much different than erasing or removing sins.

Greetings Blenderx,

Thanks for the source as well.

God bless you all.
Anathama Sit

 

[Bookcat]

Greetings to those of you who posted in this thread,

I did find what St. Thomas told us, but again I read much importance into the world “conduce.”

I am thinking that if Holy Water did remove venial sins there would be more written in Church Tradition and other Church Fathers.

I am still reseraching though and thank you for your assistance. IF any of you come up with any relevant material to this thread, please by all means contribute.

Greetings Bookcat,

I think that actually contributing to the forgiveness of sins is much different than erasing or removing sins.

Greetings Blenderx,

Thanks for the source as well.

God bless you all.
Anathama Sit

First I will note for readers venial sins can be forgiven thus in many and varied ways…especially in confession

As to St. Thomas, he explains how such can be said to cause the remission of venial sins…due to the movement of charity…penance…that it causes …

It has long been understood that the pious use of sacramentals (especially holy water) thus causes the forgiveness of venial sins…

And of course Holy Water is a reminder of our Baptism…each time we bless ourselves with it (or even make the sign of the cross without it) we are renewing (our ought to be at least implicitly) our baptismal promises.

As to the Catechism quote:

I would say that “contributing to the forgiveness of sins” is used because such does not necessarily bring about the forgiveness of “all venial sins” one has committed up that point …and certainly one will continue to commit some more in the coming hours.

(And also the word may be used because such acts of worship or devotion not always “directly aimed” at the forgiveness of venial sins like an act of contrition or of course the Sacrament of Confession)

1437 Reading Sacred Scripture, praying the Liturgy of the Hours and the Our Father - every sincere act of worship or devotion revives the spirit of conversion and repentance within us and contributes to the forgiveness of our sins.

But of course complicated creatures that we are…we may be often not yet sorry etc …we can hold on to various venial sins…at least for a time.

St. Augustine noted too long ago that the Our Father forgives our little daily sins…

 

[Bookcat]

Remember of course that we are speaking her of those who are already “in Christ” in a living way. They are in a state of “life” …living in his grace…

 

[Anathama_Sit]

First I will note for readers venial sins can be forgiven thus in many and varied ways…especially in confession

As to St. Thomas, he explains how such can be said to cause the remission of venial sins…due to the movement of charity…penance…that it causes …

It has long been understood that the pious use of sacramentals (especially holy water) thus causes the forgiveness of venial sins…

And of course Holy Water is a reminder of our Baptism…each time we bless ourselves with it (or even make the sign of the cross without it) we are renewing (our ought to be at least implicitly) our baptismal promises.

As to the Catechism quote:

I would say that “contributing to the forgiveness of sins” is used because such does not necessarily bring about the forgiveness of “all venial sins” one has committed up that point …and certainly one will continue to commit some more in the coming hours.

(And also the word may be used because such acts of worship or devotion not always “directly aimed” at the forgiveness of venial sins like an act of contrition or of course the Sacrament of Confession)

1437 Reading Sacred Scripture, praying the Liturgy of the Hours and the Our Father - every sincere act of worship or devotion revives the spirit of conversion and repentance within us and contributes to the forgiveness of our sins.

But of course complicated creatures that we are…we may be often not yet sorry etc …we can hold on to various venial sins…at least for a time.

St. Augustine noted too long ago that the Our Father forgives our little daily sins…

Greetings Bookcat,

Thank you for your reply. I am certainly not wishing to argue with you. However is there anything else written by any of the Church saints or fathers about how Sacramentals forgive venial sins.

Perhaps we can think of the Sacramentals disposing us to the forgiveness of sins rather than causing the forgiveness of sins. Can something that moves us to a certain position be the cause of it being erased? Jesus certainly is present in His Sacraments and is the One who effects the forgiveness of sins, which is why Eucharist and Reconciliation does away with Venial sins, however I am not sure if Jesus is present in the Sacramentals in the same way He is present in the Sacraments. [Goodness we seem to be getting deeper into this.]

I am still reseraching, because I am certain that there might be some other writings regarding this. [There is so much writing that has been done in the Catholic Church, it would take multiple lives just to read it all. I am amazed at all the blessings that we have as Catholics.]

I like your explanation of using the words “contributing to”. I can understand that.

[Since I have been lurking and since joining, I have read your posts and have learned from them. Thank you for sharing your wisdom and what you have learned with Catholic Answers Forum.]

God Bless.
Anathama Sit

 

[Bookcat]

Greetings Bookcat,

Thank you for your reply. I am certainly not wishing to argue with you. However is there anything else written by any of the Church saints or fathers about how Sacramentals forgive venial sins.

Perhaps we can think of the Sacramentals disposing us to the forgiveness of sins rather than causing the forgiveness of sins. Can something that moves us to a certain position be the cause of it being erased? Jesus certainly is present in His Sacraments and is the One who effects the forgiveness of sins, which is why Eucharist and Reconciliation does away with Venial sins, however I am not sure if Jesus is present in the Sacramentals in the same way He is present in the Sacraments. [Goodness we seem to be getting deeper into this.]

I am still reseraching, because I am certain that there might be some other writings regarding this. [There is so much writing that has been done in the Catholic Church, it would take multiple lives just to read it all. I am amazed at all the blessings that we have as Catholics.]

I like your explanation of using the words “contributing to”. I can understand that.

[Since I have been lurking and since joining, I have read your posts and have learned from them. Thank you for sharing your wisdom and what you have learned with Catholic Answers Forum.]

God Bless.
Anathama Sit

Thanks

Oh and please…let us argue!!..for “to argue” means really to seek the truth together… so yes we do mean to argue here…in its proper sense

You are very correct the Sacraments are certainly different then the Sacramentals (which are instituted by the Church). And yes they “work” differently.

Read again the full treatment of St. Thomas that was linked above.

Right use of Sacramentals and various acts of worship involve that movement of charity and penance etc…That charity that is within us already because we are already “alive in Christ” we are living in grace… This movement of charity etc brings about forgiveness…

Mortal sin needs that “new infusion”… from the outside if you will…death has taken place. So God has to bring one back to life.

Venial sins can be forgiven and healed from “within” as it were…to use a pale analogy similar to how our little cuts etc can be healed by the body without the need of CPR etc…So too venial sins can be forgiven…for the life of God is within us already. We are living members of Christ. God of course is still doing the forgiving… so it is not like it is a biological process (though one could say that God is working via secondary causation via the biological process too…but that would confuse things more…)…but we are living already…and do not need to be “brought to life”…

Sacramentals such as holy water help us …via the blessing and prayer of the Church. And for example holy water has the excellent additional sign value of washing…pointing back to Baptism…they involve that blessing …that prayer of the Church…and they dispose us to cooperate with grace etc.

St. Theresa of Jesus said she always experienced a kind of interior refreshment when she used holy water (one would have to find the actual quote for the actual words).

Hope that helps some

 

[Bookcat]

Catechism:

SACRAMENTALS

1667 "Holy Mother Church has, moreover, instituted sacramentals. These are sacred signs which bear a resemblance to the sacraments. They signify effects, particularly of a spiritual nature, which are obtained through the intercession of the Church. By them men are disposed to receive the chief effect of the sacraments, and various occasions in life are rendered holy."171

The characteristics of sacramentals

1668 Sacramentals are instituted for the sanctification of certain ministries of the Church, certain states of life, a great variety of circumstances in Christian life, and the use of many things helpful to man. In accordance with bishops’ pastoral decisions, they can also respond to the needs, culture, and special history of the Christian people of a particular region or time. They always include a prayer, often accompanied by a specific sign, such as the laying on of hands, the sign of the cross, or the sprinkling of holy water (which recalls Baptism).

1669 Sacramentals derive from the baptismal priesthood: every baptized person is called to be a “blessing,” and to bless.172 Hence lay people may preside at certain blessings; the more a blessing concerns ecclesial and sacramental life, the more is its administration reserved to the ordained ministry (bishops, priests, or deacons).173

1670 Sacramentals do not confer the grace of the Holy Spirit in the way that the sacraments do, but by the Church’s prayer, they prepare us to receive grace and dispose us to cooperate with it. "For well-disposed members of the faithful, the liturgy of the sacraments and sacramentals sanctifies almost every event of their lives with the divine grace which flows from the Paschal mystery of the Passion, Death, and Resurrection of Christ. From this source all sacraments and sacramentals draw their power. There is scarcely any proper use of material things which cannot be thus directed toward the sanctification of men and the praise of God."174

 

[BlinkAndItsOver]

Please note I have not read the entire thread prior to this post.

Intuitively I think the belief that holy water will remove any sin (venial or not) is pure superstition.

As an uncatechized layperson I think holy water used prayerfully while begging Our Lord for forgiveness of minor sins for which we are truly repentant may remove minor sins. However, I also think prayerfully begging Our Lord for forgiveness of minor sins for which we are truly repentant may remove minor sins.

In other words, I think holy water may assist us in revering on our Dear Lord which in turn allows us to be truly repentful for those sins against Him.

But I have much to learn and reading what I’ve written leaves me with more questions than I started with. Swimming lessons are hard.

 

[Anathama_Sit]

Catechism:

SACRAMENTALS

1667 "Holy Mother Church has, moreover, instituted sacramentals. These are sacred signs which bear a resemblance to the sacraments. They signify effects, particularly of a spiritual nature, which are obtained through the intercession of the Church. By them men are disposed to receive the chief effect of the sacraments, and various occasions in life are rendered holy."171

The characteristics of sacramentals

1668 Sacramentals are instituted for the sanctification of certain ministries of the Church, certain states of life, a great variety of circumstances in Christian life, and the use of many things helpful to man. In accordance with bishops’ pastoral decisions, they can also respond to the needs, culture, and special history of the Christian people of a particular region or time. They always include a prayer, often accompanied by a specific sign, such as the laying on of hands, the sign of the cross, or the sprinkling of holy water (which recalls Baptism).

1669 Sacramentals derive from the baptismal priesthood: every baptized person is called to be a “blessing,” and to bless.172 Hence lay people may preside at certain blessings; the more a blessing concerns ecclesial and sacramental life, the more is its administration reserved to the ordained ministry (bishops, priests, or deacons).173

1670 Sacramentals do not confer the grace of the Holy Spirit in the way that the sacraments do, but by the Church’s prayer, they prepare us to receive grace and dispose us to cooperate with it. "For well-disposed members of the faithful, the liturgy of the sacraments and sacramentals sanctifies almost every event of their lives with the divine grace which flows from the Paschal mystery of the Passion, Death, and Resurrection of Christ. From this source all sacraments and sacramentals draw their power. There is scarcely any proper use of material things which cannot be thus directed toward the sanctification of men and the praise of God."174

Greetings Bookcat,

I shall respond to both of your threads in this response.

I like you you define the word “argue”, that is the true meaning of the word “argue.” It is a joy and a blessing to pursue the truth together.

I was going to post what the Catechism of the Catholic Church had to say on the Sacramentals. What I would like to zero in is Paragraph 1670, more specifically the first sentence.

Sacramentals do not confer the grace of the Holy Spirit in the way that the sacraments do, but by the Church’s prayer, they prepare us to receive grace and dispose us to cooperate with it

How do we reconcile this paragraph with what St. Thomas said? Does this not go with my original position of Holy Water being to contribute to forgivness of Venial sins, but not in casuing the forgiveness?

Being disposed to receive grace is not the same thing as receiving grace.

God Bless.
Anathama Sit

 

[Anathama_Sit]

Please note I have not read the entire thread prior to this post.

Intuitively I think the belief that holy water will remove any sin (venial or not) is pure superstition.

As an uncatechized layperson I think holy water used prayerfully while begging Our Lord for forgiveness of minor sins for which we are truly repentant may remove minor sins. However, I also think prayerfully begging Our Lord for forgiveness of minor sins for which we are truly repentant may remove minor sins.

In other words, I think holy water may assist us in revering on our Dear Lord which in turn allows us to be truly repentful for those sins against Him.

But I have much to learn and reading what I’ve written leaves me with more questions than I started with. Swimming lessons are hard.

Greetings BlinkAndItsOver,

Hello fellow swimmer. You are certainly not alone. I am thankful to have a swimming buddy.

My understanding is being challenged as well. As this goes on it is now touching upon Sacramentals, interesting stuff for sure.

God Bless.
Anathama Sit

 

[Bookcat]

How do we reconcile this paragraph with what St. Thomas said? Does this not go with my original position of Holy Water being to contribute to forgivness of Venial sins, but not in casuing the forgiveness?

Being disposed to receive grace is not the same thing as receiving grace.

God Bless.
Anathama Sit

St. Thomas is not saying that such causes an infusion of grace. Rather otherwise.

St. Thomas would say:

I answer that:

Something can be said to cause something in more than one way… hehe…

Read his reply to objection 1 and 3 in the third article.

 

[Victory9]

No, holy water does not remove venial sin because it takes the action of a priest, acting In Persona Christi to ABSOLVE one from sin. Holy water can’t do that ~ it is a sacramental.

 

[quiet52]

Jesus Christ forgives sins.

Anything we do through prayer and other action can help us to be receptive to God’s graces – including His precious gift of forgiveness.

 

[Anathama_Sit]

St. Thomas is not saying that such causes an infusion of grace. Rather otherwise.

St. Thomas would say:

I answer that:

Something can be said to cause something in more than one way… hehe…

Read his reply to objection 1 and 3 in the third article.

Greetings Bookcat,

GROWLS!!! I must be super-de-dooper tired. I am going to rest and read what St. Thomas said with a clear mind tomorrow. Then I shall get back to you. I have re-read that document three times but very tired barely able to keep my eyeballs on the screen. :yawn: I will get back to you as soon as I can do this.

I must be missing something and I have not been able to get much sleep since coming home. I am still on dang Mountain and Central Time.

God Bless.
Anathama Sit

 

[thistle]

No, holy water does not remove venial sin because it takes the action of a priest, acting In Persona Christi to ABSOLVE one from sin. Holy water can’t do that ~ it is a sacramental.

Venial sins do not require to be confessed to a priest.
Venial sins are removed, for example, by acts of contrition, and of course the confiteor (penitential rite) at Mass.

 

[Anathama_Sit]

Venial sins do not require to be confessed to a priest.
Venial sins are removed, for example, by acts of contrition, and of course the confiteor (penitential rite) at Mass.

Greetings Thistle and Victory9,

And of course Eucharist removes the venial sins as well.

God Bless you both.
Anathama Sit

 

[Victory9]

catholicapologetics.info/morality/general/venial.htm