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Beryllos
Guest
Perhaps discovery, or invention.
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chimo
Guest
The point was we are co-creators with God. It is not that hard to understand. We can create another new human being. You mistakenly are thinking only of physical properties while not seeing the spiritual properties in this. When a human being is conceived God gives it a soul. So in this perspective we are doing something much more than just creating from something we already have. I hope you can understand that we are co-creators with God.
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atassina
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I agree. We contribute the matter. God contributes the soul. The matter came from our bodies which came our parents back to our first parents who were created by God.
The focus here is that we are not God. We can only share in the attributes of God which he shares with us.
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mikekle
Guest
I have a feeling mankind will gain this ability in the not so distant future, probably within the next 100-200 yrs. They are getting close now, but it will be awhile before it is perfected imo.
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atassina
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unless we can create something out of nothing, we won’t have the ability to actually create as distinct from reassemble or combine
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Usagi
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The ability to create ex nihilo? I don’t think physics even allows that. The OP is right even on the level of science, in that we really do just rearrange existing “stuff” (though I’m not sure I would go so far as to denigrate our creative ideas. Of course God already had those concepts, but no one here did. That counts for something.)
J.R.R. Tolkien, a devout Catholic, described the fictional world-building he and other writers did as an act of “sub-creation,” a participation in the creative act of God by virtue of being made in His image. I’m cool with that, and could easily apply it to scientists and inventors as well as artists.
Usagi
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atassina
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I agree. We are co-creators, sub-creators and participants in the act of creation. Yet, we must participate to bring forth the hidden glory of God through our acts of creation. Agreed The Pieta, Japanese Art, Latin Poetry, Classical music are all acts of creation by using the gifts that God gave us. These acts glorify God rather than diminishing our talents.
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Linusthe2nd
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Pretty close. I think we would have to distinguish between ideas and thoughts. I would say that God knows all things as ideas existing in his mind but our thoughts exist in God’s mind only in the sense that he knows what our thoughts are. And since some of our thoughts are evil, it would be inappropriate to say that they were ideas existing in God’s mind. Rather, we should think of them as flowing from his knowledge of our human freedom and the effects this would have in our lives.
Linus2nd.
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Linusthe2nd
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billcu1
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We will get that. Remember God’s plan and wish for us is to become exactly like him. When our natures become the only true nature. Theologica Germanica. This is the only real reason to be here. We will create worlds from nothing
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atassina
Guest
Please establish the rationale for “…God’s plan and wish for us is to become exactly like him.”We will get that. Remember God’s plan and wish for us is to become exactly like him. When our natures become the only true nature. Theologica Germanica. This is the only real reason to be here. We will create worlds from nothing
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billcu1
Guest
Everything starts at the bottom and works up. As the scriptures say “When that which is not perfection is made perfect…” Or something like that. I will quote a bit from Theo. Germanica. This is an obvious catholic text of a source we are not quite sure of. It was “rediscovered” by Martin Luther and re-popularized by him.
"St. Paul saith, “When that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.”6 Now mark what is “that which is perfect,” and “that which is in part.”
“That which is perfect” is a Being, who hath comprehended and included all things in Himself and His own Substance, and without whom, and beside whom, there is no true Substance, and in whom all things have their Substance. For He is the Substance of all things, and is in Himself unchangeable and immoveable, and changeth and moveth all things else. But “that which is in part,” or the Imperfect, is that which hath its source in, or springeth from the Perfect; just as a brightness or a visible appearance floweth out from the sun or a candle, and appeareth to be somewhat, this or that. And it is called a creature; and of all these “things which are in part,” none is the Perfect. So also the Perfect is none of the things which are in part. The things which are in part can be apprehended, known, and expressed; but the Perfect cannot be apprehended, known, or expressed by any creature as creature. Therefore we do not give a name to the Perfect, for it is none of these. The creature as creature cannot know nor apprehend it, name nor conceive it.
“Now when that which is Perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.” But when doth it come? I say, when as much as may be, it is known, felt and tasted of the soul. For the lack lieth altogether in us, and not in it. In like manner the sun lighteth the whole world, and is as near to one as another, yet a blind man seeth it not; but the fault thereof lieth in the blind man, not in the sun. And like as the sun may not hide its brightness, but must give light unto the earth (for heaven indeed draweth its light and heat from another fountain), so also God, who is the highest Good, willeth not to hide Himself from any, wheresoever He findeth a devout soul, that is thoroughly purified from all creatures. For in what measure we put off the creature, in the same measure are we able to put on the Creator; neither more nor less. For if mine eye is to see anything, it must be single, or else be purified from all other things; and where heat and light enter in, cold and darkness must needs depart; it cannot be otherwise.
But one might say, “Now since the Perfect cannot be known nor apprehended of any creature, but the soul is a creature, how can it be known by the soul?” Answer: This is why we say, “by the soul as a creature.” We mean it is impossible to the creature in virtue of its creature-nature and qualities, that by which it saith “I” and “myself.” For in whatsoever creature the Perfect shall be known, therein creature-nature, qualities, the I, the Self and the like, must all be lost and done away. This is the meaning of that saying of St. Paul: “When that which is perfect is come” (that is, when it is known), “then that which is in part” (to wit, creature-nature, qualities, the I, the Self, the Mine) will be despised and counted for nought. So long as we think much of these things, cleave to them with love, joy, pleasure or desire, so long remaineth the Perfect unknown to us.
But it might further be said, “Thou sayest, beside the Perfect there is no Substance, yet sayest again that somewhat floweth out from it: now is not that which hath flowed out from it, something beside it.” Answer: This is why we say, beside it, or without it, there is no true Substance. That which hath flowed forth from it, is no true Substance, and hath no Substance except in the Perfect, but is an accident, or a brightness, or a visible appearance, which is no Substance, and hath no Substance except in the fire whence the brightness flowed forth, such as the sun or a candle."
Simple mysticism by God’s teachings. Kabbala talks about Tikkun and repairing the “broken shells”
HTH
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