Can i accuse the traditionalists of causing scandal?

  • Thread starter Thread starter thechrismyster
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
latinmasslover said:
Actually, “Sherlock” was in reference to a certain liberal know-it-all, but to your question. The Black Mass is valid (actually, all Masses are valid) when 1) a valid priest says it, 2) the right matter is there, 3) the right words, and 4) right intention (meaning the intention to consecrate, not the worship of God). However, I was not equating the protestant appearing Novus Ordo Mass with the Christ-bashing Satan glorifying Black Mass. I was making a point. An accusation that was thrown out was that “trads” are making a big deal out of nothing, the way the Holy Mass is said. “The Novus Ordo is valid, don’t say anything negative about it.” My point was, is, so is the Black Mass. (Interestingly enough, you see more Satanists who believe in the True Presence at a Black Mass than you do liberal Catholics at the Novus Ordo. Which side is scandelous now?) Anyway, this isn’t the thread to debate differences on the Mass, I was just making a point to a Catholic basher.
Click to expand...
You might want to consider that apologetics may not be your strong suit, at least not over the internet in an anonymous forum. Your posts can definitely be taken the wrong way, and placed in front of someone who is somewhat weak in faith or in Catholic background, may very well plant seeds of doubt in the Church. I am extremely insulted by the assertions that the Pauline Mass is protestant-appearing (in some cases, it may be, but not all), by the continued inference that it is no better than a Black Mass, and that those of us who attend have less faith in Christ than those who attend Satanic rituals. Honestly, I do think these assertions could cause scandal.

And I think that’s just about done it for me on this thread and with this poster.
 
SeekerJen said:
You might want to consider that apologetics may not be your strong suit, at least not over the internet in an anonymous forum. Your posts can definitely be taken the wrong way, and placed in front of someone who is somewhat weak in faith or in Catholic background, may very well plant seeds of doubt in the Church. I am extremely insulted by the assertions that the Pauline Mass is protestant-appearing (in some cases, it may be, but not all), by the continued inference that it is no better than a Black Mass, and that those of us who attend have less faith in Christ than those who attend Satanic rituals. Honestly, I do think these assertions could cause scandal.

And I think that’s just about done it for me on this thread and with this poster.
Click to expand...
Truth is the truth. I didn’t reorganize the Mass to make the Protestants happy, that was someone else’s doing. I’m insulted:eek: If anyone finds previous comments on the Mass scandelous than it is up to them to look into the issue. Confusion doesn’t just reside with the Mass but in many areas within the Church; people leave all the time because of the bad behavior of liberal Catholics, yet “trads” are the only ones getting the blame in that area. If someone is weak in the Faith it is their duty to study it more and seek answers. Actually, that’s the duty of every Catholic.
 
latinmasslover said:
.
Click to expand...
please, continue to prove every point i have made. I sit now and sip my tea, no need for me to even post on this thread at this point. simply watching how you continue to sink the traditionalists brings me to giddy fulfillment. My original post is affirmed with every sylable you write.
 
please, continue to prove every point i have made.
Click to expand...
You know, I was just reading this thread and thinking the same thing. Only I’m not happy about it. I’m sad and dismayed and disappointed. Please, as someone else pointed out so much earlier in the thread – we are talking about the holy mass here. The eucharist. Communion – what Christ died for to unite all of us with Him.

What are we doing? What must He be thinking?
 
latinmasslover said:
Truth is the truth. I didn’t reorganize the Mass to make the Protestants happy, that was someone else’s doing. I’m insulted:eek: If anyone finds previous comments on the Mass scandelous than it is up to them to look into the issue. Confusion doesn’t just reside with the Mass but in many areas within the Church; people leave all the time because of the bad behavior of liberal Catholics, yet “trads” are the only ones getting the blame in that area. If someone is weak in the Faith it is their duty to study it more and seek answers. Actually, that’s the duty of every Catholic.
Click to expand...
You flatter yourself to call yourself a “trad” You are far beyond that. I serioulsy doubt you will find many ‘trads’ discussing the alleged validty of the Black mass and/or claiming that more Satan Worshippers believe in the Real Presence than do Catholics who participate a Mass you dont like.I. Do you have any idea whatsoever how foolish you look?

Unlike others I am not is the least bit worried that you are going to plant seeds of doubt in anyones mind. You are a caricature of a Traditionslist-makes me wonder if you are in reality are a Liberal Catholic trying to make traditionalists look bad.
 
dwc said:
You know, I was just reading this thread and thinking the same thing. Only I’m not happy about it. I’m sad and dismayed and disappointed. Please, as someone else pointed out so much earlier in the thread – we are talking about the holy mass here. The eucharist. Communion – what Christ died for to unite all of us with Him.

What are we doing? What must He be thinking?/QUOTE]​

I wondered about that—when I first saw the title of this thread and the original post.
Click to expand...
 
thechrismyster said:
please, continue to prove every point i have made. I sit now and sip my tea, no need for me to even post on this thread at this point. simply watching how you continue to sink the traditionalists brings me to giddy fulfillment. My original post is affirmed with every sylable you write.
Click to expand...
What point would that be Mr. Omnipotent? That everyone is entitled to an opinion except those who disagree with you and are fond of the Church? You mockery is great though, it only proves my point that you have no valid arguement. If you do your research you will find that Catholicism is not a butt-kissing religion as you seem to think. I’m sorry I don’t fit your idea of what a Catholic should be; nevermind, I’m not, because if I was that kind of Catholic I would be, uh, Protestant, wouldn’t I?
 
estesbob said:
You flatter yourself to call yourself a “trad” You are far beyond that. I serioulsy doubt you will find many ‘trads’ discussing the alleged validty of the Black mass and/or claiming that more Satan Worshippers believe in the Real Presence than do Catholics who participate a Mass you dont like.I. Do you have any idea whatsoever how foolish you look?

Unlike others I am not is the least bit worried that you are going to plant seeds of doubt in anyones mind. You are a caricature of a Traditionslist-makes me wonder if you are in reality are a Liberal Catholic trying to make traditionalists look bad.
Click to expand...
If you read up on the Sacraments you will find that Black Masses are valid if the requirements for validity are met. True Satanists pay money for a Eucharist simply to desecrate at their services. And if you think that many Catholics view the Eucharist any differently than the Protestants, as simply a symbol, you’re very naive. Look at people’s behavior during the Mass-it’s obvious that a lot (depending on the church you’re at) don’t know, or do know and just don’t care. You may not like trads because they have standards and aren’t afraid to voice it, but one thing you do see at their Masses is reverence before God, which is our first priority.
 
thechrismyster said:
please, continue to prove every point i have made. I sit now and sip my tea, no need for me to even post on this thread at this point. simply watching how you continue to sink the traditionalists brings me to giddy fulfillment. My original post is affirmed with every sylable you write.
Click to expand...
That’s part of your problem though Chris. You shouldn’t judge everyone by what one person says or does. You know that, too. Just because one person here may be a screaming liberal with ideas that the people can fulfill the role of the priest, doesn’t mean that it’s fair for me to say all modern day Catholics are like that is it?

Just like there are different types of personalities, or even because of it, there are different types of traditional Catholics, just like there are different types of liberal Catholics. In fact, I find some liberal Catholics way more tolerable than others. 🙂
 
thechrismyster said:
The only time i’ve ever been soured, even in the tiniest bit, to the Catholic Church is when i read some of the posts on the traditional board. Some of the posters have an obvious disdain for modern ritual and almost have a self imposed ban going of all things N.O.

There is ridicule of any worship of God that isn’t contained in their narrow view of what is and isn’t Catholic.

So, i guess in a way… if i drift from the Church one day having realized that those who purport to be closest to God are the most not like him… Would that make them guilty of causing scandal?

I mean, if a woman in a bikini can cause a man to sin… she is guilty of scandal. If a Traditionalist through words can cause a Catholic to loose faith in the Church… wouldn’t they be guilty of scandal as well?

Just a mental exercise…
Click to expand...
How is wearing a bikini a sin? What if you find a woman who wears a long colorful dress very attractive? Does that mean women have to stop wearing dresses too? Why not just hid in our homes all our lives lol 🙂
 
The_Catholic said:
How is wearing a bikini a sin? What if you find a woman who wears a long colorful dress very attractive? Does that mean women have to stop wearing dresses too? Why not just hid in our homes all our lives lol 🙂
Click to expand...
Only if she is is a traditionalist is it a sin.:rolleyes:
 
latinmasslover said:
What point would that be Mr. Omnipotent? That everyone is entitled to an opinion except those who disagree with you and are fond of the Church? You mockery is great though, it only proves my point that you have no valid arguement. If you do your research you will find that Catholicism is not a butt-kissing religion as you seem to think. I’m sorry I don’t fit your idea of what a Catholic should be; nevermind, I’m not, because if I was that kind of Catholic I would be, uh, Protestant, wouldn’t I?
Click to expand...
So, in your eyes, since i am a N.O loving Catholic, that makes me Protestant.

Wow, this just keeps getting better and better!

Perhaps Bob is onto something, no traditionalist would so carelessly defend their position.
 
latinmasslover said:
You may not like trads because they have standards and aren’t afraid to voice it, but one thing you do see at their Masses is reverence before God, which is our first priority.
Click to expand...
As I said before I will think you’re a traditionalist at all. And you do great harm to those of us who would like to see the church become more traditionalist than it is now. It is hard to talk to the people about the beauty of the Latin Mass and other forms of traditional worship when people like are implying that most Catholics no better than Satanists and not as holy as you are. I have often commented that many Protestants seem to believe that Jesus came to earth to found the Bible. You appear to believe that Jesus came to earth not to found the Church but found a specific Mass. You are missing so much of our faith by focusing so much on how we worship God rather than why.
 
latinmasslover said:
I am a “traditionalist.” I love the Latin Mass, and I have a strong distate for for the modernization of the Holy Rite. I go to the Novus Ordo strictly out of obedience and to receive Holy Communion. However, I know people who do not attend the Tridentine and who are very holy. Of course, all of these people actually know what the Church teaches, but still. Attending the Novus Ordo does not make anyone a bad Catholic; condemning the Tridentine though…:mad:
Click to expand...
Yes, but be careful for what you ask. I attended a Mass which was advertized as a Latin Mass this morning. It was Latin alright but the New Rite in Latin with Polish vernacular (readings and homily). Communion by intinction. No servers. Though it was much shorter than the Traditional Latin Mass, it was nevertheless valid and very reverent. But I have to mention that I do understand some Polish and a lot of the Latin prayers so it’s not that difficult for me but I can see where many would have problems with it.
 
SeekerJen said:
Are you seriously equating a Pauline Mass with a Black Mass? If so, then there may be some truth to thechrismyster’s assertions.
Click to expand...
I’m not going to deny chris’ assertions, there may be some validity in that, but what about the constant falsehood being spread around that if it’s a Latin Mass, it HAS to be schismatic? And those attacks aren’t always coming from the misinformed Catholic and press. They’re coming from the priests and the very bishops who claim that they are in full communion with Rome.
 
simply watching how you continue to sink the traditionalists brings me to giddy fulfillment.
Click to expand...
Was this your intent all along? You need not answer. The title of this thread reveals your bias.
 
I mean, if a woman in a bikini can cause a man to sin… she is guilty of scandal.
Click to expand...
Wearing a bikini is no sin. Where and how it is worn and how she acts with it on is what can cause scandal, though. In either rite. 🙂
 
thechrismyster said:
The only time i’ve ever been soured, even in the tiniest bit, to the Catholic Church is when i read some of the posts on the traditional board. Some of the posters have an obvious disdain for modern ritual and almost have a self imposed ban going of all things N.O.

There is ridicule of any worship of God that isn’t contained in their narrow view of what is and isn’t Catholic.

So, i guess in a way… if i drift from the Church one day having realized that those who purport to be closest to God are the most not like him… Would that make them guilty of causing scandal?

I mean, if a woman in a bikini can cause a man to sin… she is guilty of scandal. If a Traditionalist through words can cause a Catholic to loose faith in the Church… wouldn’t they be guilty of scandal as well?

Just a mental exercise…
Click to expand...

Traditionalists are as capable of causing scandal as anyone else - being “trad” gives no immunity against sinfulness; it means only that that kind of Catholic will sin in a slightly different way from his theological opponents: yet both are sinners, so both can cause scandal.​

 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top