P
PRmerger
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So when you pray for others your only prayer for them is that God’s will be done in them?
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M
mercygate
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The Holy Spirit acts in many ways. If the Holy Spirit could not act without a personal invitation, where would St. Paul have ended up? He was slammed to the pavement by Our Lord then told to go to Damascus where Ananias would lay hands on him so that he could receive the Holy Spirit. No mention of Paul issuing a personal invitation. And the rest, as they say, is history. Ananias must have done a pretty good job of invoking the Holy Spirit upon Paul. Now: Paul was prepared to let this happen. It did not happen AGAINST his will. But it definitely was effected by an action from outside himself.Ask is a conditional word. Only when asking for something by the authority of God (My name), will you receive it.
John 14:13 -
"Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
Having said that, there is no Biblical account of where anyone can ask the Holy Spirit to come into another’s life. Everyone is accountable for their own sin. No one can mediate for them.
1Ti 2:5 -
For there is one God, {and} one mediator also between God and men, {the} man Christ Jesus,
The Holy Spirit is not moved by an
invitation hymn . . .
Ac 5:32 -
“And we are witnesses of these things; and {so is} the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him.”
God gives the HS to those that obey the Word.
Yes, but if they are part of God’s Family, God will reveal Himself to them, through the HS, when He is ready.
M
mercygate
Guest
Let me mount my favorite soapbox on this question about the “one mediator.” It occurs in a paragraph in which Paul is specifically recommending that “supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men.”OK . . . I’ll get it right the third time . . ‘What I should have said was, ‘after the miracles of the apostles ceased (1 Cor 13:8-13), no one can ask the Holy Spirit to come into another’s life’’
1Ti 2:5 -
For there is one God, {and} one mediator also between God and men, {the} man Christ Jesus
The “one mediator” tag is a Christological statement referring to the mediation of the Incarnation through the union of humanity and Divinity in the Person of Jesus Christ. Our prayers are effective through that mediation when we pray in Him. “One Mediator” It is NOT a statement dismissing the “mediation” of Christians in prayer for one another. The “mediation” of Christ is unique because the Incarnation “mediates” humanity and divinity.
D
Deacon_Ed_B
Guest
Before we say this, lets ask some simple questions. What happens at Baptism?. What happens at Confirmation? What happens with Holy Orders? Is not the Holy Spirit called through these sacraments to enter the life of the person being baptized or confirmed or ordained? Yes, we can pray that the Holy Spirit enter a person. We do this in prayer, and it is done through the efficacious power of the sacraments.OK . . . ‘What I should have said was, ‘after the miracles of the apostles ceased (1 Cor 13:8-13), no one can ask the Holy Spirit to come into another’s life’’
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
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fewnotmany
Guest
As stated earlier, and worth repeating, "after the miracles of the apostles ceased (1 Cor 13:8-13), no one can ask the Holy Spirit to come into another’s life’’. . . . Damascus where Ananias would lay hands on (Paul) so that he could receive the Holy Spirit.
1Ti 2:5 -
For there is one God, {and} one mediator also between God and men, {the} man Christ Jesus
D
Deacon_Ed_B
Guest
I would suggest you re-read the 1st Epistle of Paul to the Corinthians for this quote. That is not what it says. ."after the miracles of the apostles ceased (1 Cor 13:8-13), no one can ask the Holy Spirit to come into another’s life’’
Prayers & Blessings
Deacon Ed B
M
mercygate
Guest
I do not see how 1 Cor 13:8-13 states that we cannot pray that the Holy Spirit will come into someone’s life.As stated earlier, and worth repeating, "after the miracles of the apostles ceased (1 Cor 13:8-13), no one can ask the Holy Spirit to come into another’s life’’
1Ti 2:5 -
For there is one God, {and} one mediator also between God and men, {the} man Christ Jesus
As for 1 Tim 2:5 – Not applicable. Read my earlier post on that.
N
NotWorthy
Guest
Yes, God loves all of us and wishes all of us to be saved. Is that problematic?By ‘all of us’ do you mean everyone that ever lived?
And I’ve stated my disagreement with your reasoning.I’ve stated my disagreement with this statement.
So, the answer may be, “you can ASK anything. But only prayers that fall along the line of God’s Will have a chance of being successful”.With respect to the OP question, the details of the prayer request wasn’t disclosed. I was attempting to put up a cautionary yellow flag to warn against praying (wishing) for things that is not the will of God.
And with your mediator comment, how do you respond to the statement that it is the faith of the four carrying the paralytic that got the paralytic healed?
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fewnotmany
Guest
Here is the citation, in context:I would suggest you re-read the 1st Epistle of Paul to the Corinthians for this quote.
1 Corinthians 13:8-13 -
8 Charity never falleth away: whether prophecies shall be made void or tongues shall cease or knowledge shall be destroyed. 9 For we know in part: and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child. But, when I became a man, I put away the things of a child. 12 We see now through a glass in a dark manner: but then face to face. Now I know in part: but then I shall know even as I am known. 13 And now there remain faith, hope, and charity, these three: but the greatest of these is charity.aith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love.
**
From the Vine’s Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words:**
Code:
"katargeo lit., "to reduce to inactivity" (kata, "down," argos, "inactive"), is translated "abolish" in Eph_2:15; 2_Tim_1:10.Deacon Ed B . . . What exactly, is Paul referring to that is done away with?
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fewnotmany
Guest
Originally Posted by fewnotmany
By ‘all of us’ do you mean everyone that ever lived?
Regretfully, your answer doesn’t answer my question. You’ve simple restated your earlier statement.Yes, God loves all of us and wishes all of us to be saved.
That is a good question. Thank you for offering it.And with your mediator comment, how do you respond to the statement that it is the faith of the four carrying the paralytic that got the paralytic healed?
Luke 5:1 Now it happened that while the crowd was pressing around Him . . .
15 But the news about Him was spreading even farther, and large crowds were gathering to hear Him and to be healed of their sicknesses.
17 One day He was teaching, . . . 18 And some men were carrying on a bed a man who was paralyzed; . . . 19 But not finding any way to bring him in because of the crowd, they went up on the roof and let him down through the tiles with his stretcher, into the middle of the crowd, in front of Jesus.20 Seeing their faith, He said, “Friend, your sins are forgiven you.”
I’m not sure what you are implying. Are you suggesting that because the paralyzed man was carried on a stretcher by fellow believers that this somehow is the precedent for prayer groups to intercede for the sick?
In addition, The purpose of healing the palsy was to show the scribes and Pharisees that He was the Son of Man . . .
24 “But, so that (scribes and Pharisees) may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins,” --He said to the paralytic–“I say to you, get up, and pick up your stretcher and go home.”
F
fewnotmany
Guest
I have, twice (10 hours apart). I still don’t get it.As for 1 Tim 2:5 – Not applicable. Read my earlier post on that.
D
Deacon_Ed_B
Guest
First, lets use the Saint Joseph Edition of the New American Bible, which would appear to be a more up to date (improved) translation than what you have.1st Cor.13:8-13 says:Here is the citation, in context:
1 Corinthians 13:8-13 -
8 Charity never falleth away: whether prophecies shall be made void or tongues shall cease or knowledge shall be destroyed. 9 For we know in part: and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child. But, when I became a man, I put away the things of a child. 12 We see now through a glass in a dark manner: but then face to face. Now I know in part: but then I shall know even as I am known. 13 And now there remain faith, hope, and charity, these three: but the greatest of these is charity.aith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love.
**
From the Vine’s Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words:**
prophesyings, and that which was in part were to be “done away,” 1_Cor_13:8,10, i.e., they were to be rendered of no effect after their temporary use was fulfilled; when the Apostle became a man he did away with the ways of a child, 1_Cor_13:11; God is going to abolish all rule and authority and power, i.e., He is going to render them inactive,"Code:"katargeo lit., "to reduce to inactivity" (kata, "down," argos, "inactive"), is translated "abolish" in Eph_2:15; 2_Tim_1:10.
Deacon Ed B . . . What exactly, is Paul referring to that is done away with?
"Love never fails. Prophecies will cease, tongues will be silent, knowledge will pass away. Our knowledge is imperfect and our prophesying is imperfect. When the perfect comes, the imperfect will pass away. When I was a child I used to talk like a child, think like a child, reason like a child. When I became a man I put childish ways aside. Now we see indistinctly, as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. My knowledge is imperfect now; then I shall know even as I am known. There are in the end three things that last; faith, hope and love, and the greatest of these is love. "
In no place does it say that we cannot ask the Holy Spirit to pray for another or to come to another. I have checked several biblical commentaries on this verses Each is quite lengthy. It contrasts the difference in God’s gifts to us and the manner in which we know him in this world as compared to the next. It extols love as the greatest of God’s gifts.
**What it is in effect saying is that in the next world, we shall know intuitively **as opposed to having knowledge in the limited finite manner of our existence at present.
Prayers & Blessings
Deacon Ed B
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fewnotmany
Guest
I’m going to try this again . . .
Deacon Ed B . . . What exactly, is Paul referring to that is done away with?
D
Deacon_Ed_B
Guest
If I understand you correctly St Paul is saying that in the next world, i.e., eternity, the confines of our finite existence and limited abilities will be done away with and we shall know all things intuitively and shall see God as he is.
Prayers & Blessings
Deacon Ed B
Prayers & Blessings
Deacon Ed B
P
PRmerger
Guest
Fewnotmany,
Could you please respond to my query in post #21?
Could you please respond to my query in post #21?
N
NotWorthy
Guest
What part of “all of us” is difficult to understand. But to spell it out, y-e-s, e-v-e-r-y-o-n-e w-h-o e-v-e-r l-i-v-e-d.Regretfully, your answer doesn’t answer my question. You’ve simple restated your earlier statement.
Implying? Suggesting? No, I’m saying that.That is a good question. Thank you for offering it.
Luke 5:1 Now it happened that while the crowd was pressing around Him . . .
15 But the news about Him was spreading even farther, and large crowds were gathering to hear Him and to be healed of their sicknesses.
17 One day He was teaching, . . . 18 And some men were carrying on a bed a man who was paralyzed; . . . 19 But not finding any way to bring him in because of the crowd, they went up on the roof and let him down through the tiles with his stretcher, into the middle of the crowd, in front of Jesus.20 Seeing their faith, He said, “Friend, your sins are forgiven you.”
I’m not sure what you are implying. Are you suggesting that because the paralyzed man was carried on a stretcher by fellow believers that this somehow is the precedent for prayer groups to intercede for the sick?
Jesus performs healing miracles in response to people’s faith and/or as a sign for others to believe. In this case, Jesus does it in response to faith - who’s faith? The friends faith (in addition to the lesson for the hard-headed Pharisees).they went up on the roof and let him down through the tiles with his stretcher, into the middle of the crowd, in front of Jesus.20 Seeing their faith, He said, “Friend, your sins are forgiven you.”
That’s a pretty strong lesson in the value of intercessory prayer.
Yes, but the forgiveness was an act of their faith. The healing was to show proof of the forgiveness.In addition, The purpose of healing the palsy was to show the scribes and Pharisees that He was the Son of Man . . .
24 “But, so that (scribes and Pharisees) may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins,” --He said to the paralytic–“I say to you, get up, and pick up your stretcher and go home.”
F
fewnotmany
Guest
Yes.So when you pray for others your only prayer for them is that God’s will be done in them?
I believe any other form of prayer is just wishful thinking.
F
fewnotmany
Guest
As NotWorthy has stated:If I understand you correctly St Paul is saying that in the next world, i.e., eternity, the confines of our finite existence and limited abilities will be done away with and we shall know all things intuitively and shall see God as he is.
Prayers & Blessings
Deacon Ed B
The word miracle in the greek means - a sign. IMHO, the miracles, or signs, that Paul is talking about that will come to an end (not our physical bodies) has been replaced with love. How does the Bible define love?Jesus performs healing miracles in response to people’s faith and/or as a sign for others to believe.
2 John 6 “this is love (agape) that we walk after his commandments”
To love (agape) does not mean to show affection (phileo) towards others.
Returning to the original topic, I was visiting my 92 year old grand mother last Sunday on Mother’s Day. She is in a nursing home with a life expectancy of about 6-8 weeks. Praying (wishing) for her health to return is not what she wants. Praying (bowing to the will of God) that God’s will had been done through her during her lifetime is what she needs. As I looked into her eyes, perhaps for the very last time, I believe that God has kept her alive this long as instruction to me to be faithful to the teachings of Christ until the very end. I also believe that her faithfulness in Christ, is soon to receive its final reward.
M
mercygate
Guest
Jesus did many healing “signs” in his ministry.As NotWorthy has stated:
The word miracle in the greek means - a sign. IMHO, the miracles, or signs, that Paul is talking about that will come to an end (not our physical bodies) has been replaced with love. How does the Bible define love?
2 John 6 “this is love (agape) that we walk after his commandments”
To love (agape) does not mean to show affection (phileo) towards others.
Returning to the original topic, I was visiting my 92 year old grand mother last Sunday on Mother’s Day. She is in a nursing home with a life expectancy of about 6-8 weeks. Praying (wishing) for her health to return is not what she wants. Praying (bowing to the will of God) that God’s will had been done through her during her lifetime is what she needs. As I looked into her eyes, perhaps for the very last time, I believe that God has kept her alive this long as instruction to me to be faithful to the teachings of Christ until the very end. I also believe that her faithfulness in Christ, is soon to receive its final reward.
Your essay on love is edifying but not to the point.
The “original topic” is whether we can ask the Holy Spirit to enter someone else’s heart. Since your grandmother is, apparently, a faith-filled woman looking forward to coming into the fullness of Christ’s presence, it hardly touches the original topic.
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fewnotmany
Guest
In other words, are you saying, The “original topic” is whether we can ask the Holy Spirit to enter someone else’s harden heart?Since your grandmother is, apparently, a faith-filled woman looking forward to coming into the fullness of Christ’s presence, it hardly touches the original topic.
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