can i attend a worship service at a mosque?

[Josh27]

That is your choice. If l have failed to convince you of my argument, then please listen to the Fathers, Doctors, Councils and Popes of the past. If you are a reasonable man you will see the contradiction between the pre conciliar Church and the current one. I highly recommend Fr. Muller C.S.S.R, this is a comprehensive study of this doctrine, the best i know of in existence. store.catholicism.org/the-catholic-dogma.html.
‘‘Not to oppose erroneous Doctrine is to approve of it, and not to defend at all true Doctrine is to suppress it.’’ Innocent III.
Can i attend worship at a mosque? Absoultely not! It breaks the first commandment.

 

[shambles]

hiya. It is not a sin for a Catholic to enter a Mosque, a place where the religion of Abraham exists, and the teachings of the 10 Commandments, where the belief in One God is sustained and worship of the God of Mary and Christ (peace unto them) is practiced. A place where worshipers of the God of Moses (peace unto Him) believe in Angels and Demons, heaven and hell, the Day of Resurrection. Who remember often, and send salutations upon all God`s messengers and saints and Holy families.
Is any of the above blasphemous to you as a catholic?
Besides, God Judges us on intention.
God bless.

 

[shambles]

I think you may all be missing the point here. Your friend may be trying to convey to you that the same fear/worry/horror you as a Christian may feel entering a mosque is the same fear/worry/horror he feels entering a Church. Some (but not all) Jewish people are taught to fear Christians as being constantly trying to convert them - the Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, and some evangelical faiths have gone so overboard and caused Jews and non-Christians to positively fear all Christians.

But there need be no fear. Entering a mosque or a synagogue is not going to “rub off” on you and make you any less Christian. And you can pray here, there or anywhere, of course! God is everywhere. Just say your own prayers to God - H will hear you just as well in a mosque as he does before the Tabernacle or in the bathroom, for that matter.

I would call ahead and make sure it is OK with the mosque - most will assign someone to assist you on your visit so you will understand the customs and don’t do anything to offend.

What a lovely answer. Well balanced, Alhamdolillah.
I think ppl are heavily influenced by negative media, and that feeds ignorance and that leads to fear, and then to violence or hate.
Personally, its nice to see what the great faiths have in common. Bearing in mind we all have our misguided and extremists. Like you mentioned some sects above, we Muslims have the Wahabis and Salafis etc, who are a bit scary.
Muslim is actually a person (name chosen by Abraham peace unto Him) who submits their will to the Will of God. Realistically, how many claim to be Muslim, yet smash the 10 ten Commandments? Exactly. A true Christian or Jew, will identify with a tru Muslim.
Peace o sensible one,

 

[Aydan]

I don’t recognize the Lateran Council IV as the authority I should follow as a Catholic as far as I’m concerned Vatican II replaced it so it is what I will follow. Although I am reluctant to attend a mosque I do not think it is a violation of the first amendment. Thank you for the information.

That is your choice. If l have failed to convince you of my argument, then please listen to the Fathers, Doctors, Councils and Popes of the past. If you are a reasonable man you will see the contradiction between the pre conciliar Church and the current one. I highly recommend Fr. Muller C.S.S.R, this is a comprehensive study of this doctrine, the best i know of in existence. store.catholicism.org/the-catholic-dogma.html.
‘‘Not to oppose erroneous Doctrine is to approve of it, and not to defend at all true Doctrine is to suppress it.’’ Innocent III.
Can i attend worship at a mosque? Absoultely not! It breaks the first commandment.

 

[dzheremi]

Again, I must ask those who are advocating attendance at the mosque, in what way is it beneficial that attendance at a Christian church would not be? Others have suggested going there as a show of goodwill towards the Muslims, or as a place to offer up to God any discomfort at being among unbelievers, or any number of things. Yes, fine, but why do any of these require actually praying in the mosque and being a part of its ritual? It seems like a big step in the wrong direction when you could just as easily meet unbelievers outside of their holy places in order to become more comfortable with them, or do some other thing to show your good will towards them that would not involve their religious ritual.

If we must have this kind of “experiential theology”, can’t we have it within our own religious tradition, as our own fathers have shown us? Why are their holy models suddenly lacking since Vatican II (or some other point)?

 

[Aydan]

You know you’re assuming that if we are praying around other people we adopt their rituals speaking for myself I do not do that. I have been around Muslims for more than three years now and I have very frequent contact with them. During Ramadan I pray five times a day but I stay away from all Islamic prayers and pray the liturgy of the hours instead. This allows me to fast with the Turkish community without compromising my faith. If you know your faith in you believe it visiting another place of worship will not bother you because you know which lines you will not cross. The key is if you’re going to be around people of other faiths you have to always be ready to defend or explain your faith so this activity is not for the weak at heart.

Again, I must ask those who are advocating attendance at the mosque, in what way is it beneficial that attendance at a Christian church would not be? Others have suggested going there as a show of goodwill towards the Muslims, or as a place to offer up to God any discomfort at being among unbelievers, or any number of things. Yes, fine, but why do any of these require actually praying in the mosque and being a part of its ritual? It seems like a big step in the wrong direction when you could just as easily meet unbelievers outside of their holy places in order to become more comfortable with them, or do some other thing to show your good will towards them that would not involve their religious ritual.

If we must have this kind of “experiential theology”, can’t we have it within our own religious tradition, as our own fathers have shown us? Why are their holy models suddenly lacking since Vatican II (or some other point)?

 

[Josh27]

If you do not recognize the Latern Council and all the councils for that matter that were in conformity with the desposit of Faith, except for some e.g. (2nd council of Ephesus, which was classed as a robber council), how could you possibly class yourself as Catholic? Vatican II council is not superior to the Latern Council. Revealtion ended with the death of the last Apostle it does not continue forever. The Church preaches no new doctrine except that taught by Christ. Dogma does not change or evolve with the times this is the doctrine of the modernists and Vatican II. As for the rest of these liberal comments and there false ecumenism, using there own private judgement on matters which pertain to their eternal salvation, they obviously do not know the Catholic Faith as handed down by a forefathers ‘‘Out of the Church there is postivley no Salvation.’’ Stop watering down this doctrine! Back up your beliefs up with doctrine, not your own opinions!

 

[dzheremi]

You know you’re assuming that if we are praying around other people we adopt their rituals speaking for myself I do not do that.

Nope. I’m asking what can be gained by praying with Muslims that cannot be gained by praying with fellow Christians instead, which I consider the appropriate alternative. To the extent that others here have informed that the ritual of the mosque contains prayer and nothing else, praying alongside them inside of their mosque would be adopting their ritual by default, unless you stuck to some non-Eastern form of prayer (no prostrations, etc.) from within the mosque, which would no doubt seem a bit rude or at least confusing. Please read my post a little more carefully before assuming about what I am assuming.

 

[Aydan]

these are not my opinions I’m going on Vatican II the catechism and the words and actions of the holy Father if you want to deny go ahead but I will not you are the one stating your own opinion not me.

If you do not recognize the Latern Council and all the councils for that matter that were in conformity with the desposit of Faith, except for some e.g. (2nd council of Ephesus, which was classed as a robber council), how could you possibly class yourself as Catholic? Vatican II council is not superior to the Latern Council. Revealtion ended with the death of the last Apostle it does not continue forever. The Church preaches no new doctrine except that taught by Christ. Dogma does not change or evolve with the times this is the doctrine of the modernists and Vatican II. As for the rest of these liberal comments and there false ecumenism, using there own private judgement on matters which pertain to their eternal salvation, they obviously do not know the Catholic Faith as handed down by a forefathers ‘‘Out of the Church there is postivley no Salvation.’’ Stop watering down this doctrine! Back up your beliefs up with doctrine, not your own opinions!

 

[Aydan]

Please explain this to me if you are not assuming it then how could merely standing inside a mosque be adopting Islamic rituals? I took classes at a Turkish center sometimes used for prayers so by your logic just by going there I’m adopting Islamic rituals??

Nope. I’m asking what can be gained by praying with Muslims that cannot be gained by praying with fellow Christians instead, which I consider the appropriate alternative. To the extent that others here have informed that the ritual of the mosque contains prayer and nothing else, praying alongside them inside of their mosque would be adopting their ritual by default, unless you stuck to some non-Eastern form of prayer (no prostrations, etc.) from within the mosque, which would no doubt seem a bit rude or at least confusing. Please read my post a little more carefully before assuming about what I am assuming.

 

[dzheremi]

Please explain this to me if you are not assuming it then how could merely standing inside a mosque be adopting Islamic rituals?

With regard to the question of praying inside the mosque (which was the context in which I was asking the original question you replied to), how could it not be? If the OP just wants to stand there and observe, that is a different matter. I would still question the need or desire to do so, but it’s at least not taking part in the ritual of the mosque.

I took classes at a Turkish center sometimes used for prayers so by your logic just by going there I’m adopting Islamic rituals??

That’s really the exact opposite of the logic I would use/am using. With the notable exception of many mosques in the Middle East and Turkey that used to be churches, any given mosque you might go to exists entirely for Islamic religious ritual and to sustain and propagate Islam. Not so with a community center, which no doubt offers classes on things other than Islam that are connected to Turkish culture. Unless you were taking classes in Islamic prayer or attending the Islamic prayers at the center, there really is no parallel.

 

[Aydan]

Again, I must ask those who are advocating attendance at the mosque, in what way is it beneficial that attendance at a Christian church would not be? Others have suggested going there as a show of goodwill towards the Muslims, or as a place to offer up to God any discomfort at being among unbelievers, or any number of things. Yes, fine, but why do any of these require actually praying in the mosque and being a part of its ritual? It seems like a big step in the wrong direction when you could just as easily meet unbelievers outside of their holy places in order to become more comfortable with them, or do some other thing to show your good will towards them that would not involve their religious ritual.

If we must have this kind of “experiential theology”, can’t we have it within our own religious tradition, as our own fathers have shown us? Why are their holy models suddenly lacking since Vatican II (or some other point)?

going back to your original point about praying with Christians and what we can gain from praying with other people for me personally there are kind of things that I can’t I get from simply praying with Christians for example I have learned a lot from observing Muslims and I don’t even come anywhere near participating in the prayers. I did not even know about the liturgy of the hours until I became involved in studying Islam. Reading the Quran has given me a deeper appreciation of my Catholic faith and I never would’ve read it if I wasn’t involved with Muslims. Most importantly fasting and praying five times a day like the Muslims do has given me a greater appreciation for Lent. I also think it is good to learn about other cultures as well. I don’t actually participate in Muslim prayers my understanding is from what I’ve read anyway the people here that say they pray with Muslims are praying at the same time as Muslims but they are replace the prayers with Christian ones. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

 

[Aydan]

With regard to the question of praying inside the mosque (which was the context in which I was asking the original question you replied to), how could it not be? If the OP just wants to stand there and observe, that is a different matter. I would still question the need or desire to do so, but it’s at least not taking part in the ritual of the mosque.

That’s really the exact opposite of the logic I would use/am using. With the notable exception of many mosques in the Middle East and Turkey that used to be churches, any given mosque you might go to exists entirely for Islamic religious ritual and to sustain and propagate Islam. Not so with a community center, which no doubt offers classes on things other than Islam that are connected to Turkish culture. Unless you were taking classes in Islamic prayer or attending the Islamic prayers at the center, there really is no parallel.

I guess it all depends on what is meant by praying in the mosque for example suppose I’m sitting in a mosque with my Turkish friends because they invited me to break the fast there would you object if I said the Lord’s prayer in the mosque to break the fast? or are you objecting to people actually actually participating in the physical prayer by bowing and prostrating?
Actually there is because it is used as a place to observe holidays such as eid fast breaking dinners during Ramadan and I’ve attended some of these events so I wasn’t there what exactly you were saying I thought you were saying by simply attending these things you’re adopting Islamic rituals. But now I understand your point better after you clarified it.

 

[Josh27]

Yes thats all you have, V2 ‘popes’ and their teachings. You cannot back any other Church document that is in conformity to your view because there is no such document. All well and good it is futile to continue because some people are impervious to argumentation. You can have your prayers in the mosque, or synagogue, hindu, bahai masonic hall or whatever, they are all mainfestations of truth in one way or the other!

 

[Aydan]

Yes thats all you have, V2 ‘popes’ and their teachings. You cannot back any other Church document that is in conformity to your view because there is no such document. All well and good it is futile to continue because some people are impervious to argumentation. You can have your prayers in the mosque, or synagogue, hindu, bahai masonic hall or whatever, they are all mainfestations of truth in one way or the other!

exactly I don’t need any proof outside of Vatican II because I recognize Vatican II as the authority. Just like you choose to ignore it I choose to follow it because I find it more credible than any of the sources you’re using to discredit it.

 

[dzheremi]

I guess it all depends on what is meant by praying in the mosque for example suppose I’m sitting in a mosque with my Turkish friends because they invited me to break the fast there would you object if I said the Lord’s prayer in the mosque to break the fast? or are you objecting to people actually actually participating in the physical prayer by bowing and prostrating?

Certainly not objecting to prostration in prayer or any of that. The Coptic Church I have been looking into for quite some time is very big on that. My position is more that there are certain practices which are appropriate to YOUR religion and certain practices that are not. Just as I would not prostrate in a Latin church during Mass (I regularly did so in prayer before an icon of the Theotokos at the local Latin church where I used to live in Oregon, but this was not during services), I would likewise not be breaking another religion’s fast to begin with. I remember having this very conversation with an Islamically-inclined Catholic on this board some years ago who subsequently became Muslim and came back to lecture us all on how much better it is to be a Muslim. I didn’t buy his “I’m fasting in solidarity with them, not in fulfillment of their religion” argument then, and I wouldn’t buy it from you if you were going there to break their fast (if they are inviting you as a gesture of good will, that’s another matter because it doesn’t require you to observe their fasting; it need be no different than any other free meal). Ditto the “praying five times during Ramadan” thing you mentioned earlier – it’s never a bad idea to pray, but I must wonder why you would pray according to their parameters in observance or honor of their holiday. It’s not your religion, just like it would be inappropriate in both your and their tradition if your Muslim friends were to celebrate Easter. Again, this is not out of hatred for Muslims or you for wanting to join them in the best of intentions, it’s just not something I think is appropriate. As I told the Catholic-turned-Muslim poster, do not be attracted to the supposed piety of Islamic traditions when your own are much better. Learn those, practice those, and be an example of Christian holiness to the other religions, as well as your brethren in your own faith. There is nothing in Islam that is appropriate for a Christian to partake in, only some external similarities that are dwarfed by authentic Christian prayer and asceticism.

Actually there is because it is used as a place to observe holidays such as eid fast breaking dinners during Ramadan and I’ve attended some of these events

Do you go to these dinners because you are invited out of friendship, or because you observe the Islamic fasts? There may be some legitimate evangelical use for such observances in very specific circumstances (see, for instance, Dr. Nabil Jabbour’s account of fasting alongside Muslims in Egypt to serve as an example to them in his The Cresecent Through the Eyes of the Cross), but this is not license to partake in their fasts/feasts on religious grounds out of any supposed commonality between the communities. If I remember you correctly and have not confused you with someone else, you are aware of Eastern traditions so you no doubt know that Christians do not fast in the way that Muslims do, either in intention or in practice. Let’s keep it that way, is all I’m saying. As somebody who is not God supposedly said to Muhammad in the Qur’an, to you your way and to me mine. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day…

 

[Josh27]

I find the Saints, Doctors of the Church, Popes of the past, as the only credible sources to quote from, so should you if you value your Catholic Name. You are dangerous, advocates of a false religion, promoting errors among people who are less instructed then you. You fail to address these grave accuations which l have brought to your attention. Isn’t what this forum is all about? Instead you brush it aside and ignore them whilst promoting your own ideas on a doctrine which you clearly do not understand.

 

[Aydan]

Certainly not objecting to prostration in prayer or any of that. The Coptic Church I have been looking into for quite some time is very big on that. My position is more that there are certain practices which are appropriate to YOUR religion and certain practices that are not. Just as I would not prostrate in a Latin church during Mass (I regularly did so in prayer before an icon of the Theotokos at the local Latin church where I used to live in Oregon, but this was not during services), I would likewise not be breaking another religion’s fast to begin with. I remember having this very conversation with an Islamically-inclined Catholic on this board some years ago who subsequently became Muslim and came back to lecture us all on how much better it is to be a Muslim. I didn’t buy his “I’m fasting in solidarity with them, not in fulfillment of their religion” argument then, and I wouldn’t buy it from you if you were going there to break their fast (if they are inviting you as a gesture of good will, that’s another matter because it doesn’t require you to observe their fasting; it need be no different than any other free meal). Ditto the “praying five times during Ramadan” thing you mentioned earlier – it’s never a bad idea to pray, but I must wonder why you would pray according to their parameters in observance or honor of their holiday. It’s not your religion, just like it would be inappropriate in both your and their tradition if your Muslim friends were to celebrate Easter. Again, this is not out of hatred for Muslims or you for wanting to join them in the best of intentions, it’s just not something I think is appropriate. As I told the Catholic-turned-Muslim poster, do not be attracted to the supposed piety of Islamic traditions when your own are much better. Learn those, practice those, and be an example of Christian holiness to the other religions, as well as your brethren in your own faith. There is nothing in Islam that is appropriate for a Christian to partake in, only some external similarities that are dwarfed by authentic Christian prayer and asceticism.

first I am not ever going to convert to Islam because Mohammed teaches too many things against Christian in particular not offering peace etc. so please do not compare me to that person.

Do you go to these dinners because you are invited out of friendship, or because you observe the Islamic fasts? There may be some legitimate evangelical use for such observances in very specific circumstances (see, for instance, Dr. Nabil Jabbour’s account of fasting alongside Muslims in Egypt to serve as an example to them in his The Cresecent Through the Eyes of the Cross), but this is not license to partake in their fasts/feasts on religious grounds out of any supposed commonality between the communities. If I remember you correctly and have not confused you with someone else, you are aware of Eastern traditions so you no doubt know that Christians do not fast in the way that Muslims do, either in intention or in practice. Let’s keep it that way, is all I’m saying. As somebody who is not God supposedly said to Muhammad in the Qur’an, to you your way and to me mine. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day…

I’ve only been to two of these and I was invited. One I was already there for class and I did not stay for it. the second one was an interfaith dinner held at my university. I only go if I am specifically invited to do so. Yes I do fast for Ramadan but it’s not because I’m observing the Islamic meaning of Ramadan I fast because I want to use the opportunity to get closer to God as we do in Lent. Let’s remember the church encourages us too fast at other times of the year other than Lent. So why not during Ramadan after all its a way for me to show solidarity it’s not like I’m performing Islamic rituals…

 

[Aydan]

I find the Saints, Doctors of the Church, Popes of the past, as the only credible sources to quote from, so should you if you value your Catholic Name. You are dangerous, advocates of a false religion, promoting errors among people who are less instructed then you. You fail to address these grave accuations which l have brought to your attention. Isn’t what this forum is all about? Instead you brush it aside and ignore them whilst promoting your own ideas on a doctrine which you clearly do not understand.

I don’t agree with you of course this argument is becoming pointless at this point so we will leave it there because we’re not getting anywhere I’m not going to change your mind and you are certainly not changing mine so let’s leave it here

 

[dzheremi]

I’ve only been to two of these and I was invited. One I was already there for class and I did not stay for it. the second one was an interfaith dinner held at my university. I only go if I am specifically invited to do so. Yes I do fast for Ramadan but it’s not because I’m observing the Islamic meaning of Ramadan I fast because I want to use the opportunity to get closer to God as we do in Lent. Let’s remember the church encourages us too fast at other times of the year other than Lent. So why not during Ramadan after all its a way for me to show solidarity it’s not like I’m performing Islamic rituals…

I see. Yes, I am aware that the RC church encourages you to fast during other times of the year, but unless things have changed quite a bit since I was under Rome, this does not include marking specifically Islamic holidays. It is good that you hold on to the Christian meaning of fasting, but I wonder how this fits in with “solidarity” (with who/what?) talk. I can find no genuine cause on religious grounds for solidarity with Muslims, though perhaps Rome teaches differently.