Can I be a member of 2 different parishes?

[losh14]

I love the recent humor here - helps lighten the discussion.

It should be pointed out that, while you technically belong to one parish, there is not a mechnism to track. There’s no diocesan audit of households, for example. If you’re living in one parish but registered at another it seems that the only time this comes to the parish’s attention is when you need to enroll your kids in the parish school, arrange for a wedding or baptism, etc.

We’ve a unique and somewhat frustrating situation. We belong to a parish down the street but attend one across the city (where we are still registered from before we moved). The parish down the street is fine and good except for the cry room - which is almost always filled with people who do not have small children. We’ve a 15-month-old who likes to sing when no one else is so we often sit in the cry room. At the local parish, the cry room is never enforced and instead is populated by folks with teenagers who use the cry room to talk on the phone, tell jokes among each other, etc. The last time we went, a family with four children (the youngest was 10, oldest probably 16) were so distracting that we went to the main body of church, and were asked to sit in the cry room as soon as our daughter uttered a peep, so we left early. We didn’t even make it to the Eucharist.

Instead, we still attend the parish across the city where the cry room is very much respected. A solemn quiet is maintained and people know how to keep their kids in line. It’s just a completely different mentality towards the Mass.

So yes, you can attend a different parish than the one in which you’re registered, and I’ll go against the strictures of Canon Law and say you should register where you attend so that the diocesan tax and appeal reflect accurately the needs and abilities of the parish population.

 

[DeepeningFaith]

Wow! 5 pages already!

Sorry I had left the conversation, but Fr. David came in and cleared things up as always!

I do have a question: Contributions have been mentioned a lot. Are we required to provide for the needs of the Parish, or for the Church building that we go to, or just for the Church as a whole in general? Yes, we are free to contribute to everyone, but if I go to a Church that is not my Parish Church, am I supposed to still provide for the needs of my Parish?

thanks!

 

[FrDavid96]

I love the recent humor here - helps lighten the discussion.

It should be pointed out that, while you technically belong to one parish, there is not a mechnism to track. There’s no diocesan audit of households, for example. If you’re living in one parish but registered at another it seems that the only time this comes to the parish’s attention is when you need to enroll your kids in the parish school, arrange for a wedding or baptism, etc.

We’ve a unique and somewhat frustrating situation. We belong to a parish down the street but attend one across the city (where we are still registered from before we moved). The parish down the street is fine and good except for the cry room - which is almost always filled with people who do not have small children. We’ve a 15-month-old who likes to sing when no one else is so we often sit in the cry room. At the local parish, the cry room is never enforced and instead is populated by folks with teenagers who use the cry room to talk on the phone, tell jokes among each other, etc. The last time we went, a family with four children (the youngest was 10, oldest probably 16) were so distracting that we went to the main body of church, and were asked to sit in the cry room as soon as our daughter uttered a peep, so we left early. We didn’t even make it to the Eucharist.

Instead, we still attend the parish across the city where the cry room is very much respected. A solemn quiet is maintained and people know how to keep their kids in line. It’s just a completely different mentality towards the Mass.

So yes, you can attend a different parish than the one in which you’re registered, and I’ll go against the strictures of Canon Law and say you should register where you attend so that the diocesan tax and appeal reflect accurately the needs and abilities of the parish population.

There are plenty of times when this comes to the parish attention. I recall a few years back when the Archdiocese of Philadelphia began enforcing parish boundaries very, very strictly. It had to do with so many parish closings. The parish rolls were chaos and the bishop ordered that things be done right.

It’s also happening in the Diocese of Cleveland, with all their parish closings. lAthough I have no “firsthand” knowlege of how strict they’re being with boundaries, I can say that the boundaries are being enforced more than they were in the past.

When you suggest that a person should register for the sake of accuracy, in reality you’re suggesting inacuracy because that results in a distorted view of how many parishioners are actual members of each parish. A parish might have a large registration list, but the population of that parish is much smaller. In a case like that, the registrations are an obstacle to the diocese having an accurate idea of just how many true parishioners live in a given parish.

It also hurts because when people register at a parish other than their own proper parish, and then continue to think of themselves as parishioners, but then someday find out that they aren’t truly parishioners. Instead they have to go to their proper parish for a wedding, baptism, funeral, or something else, they learn the hard way that “going against the strictures of canon law” can have some very unfortunate consequences.

I’ve got nothing against people registering at a parish other then their own parish (so long as their proper pastor and pastor where they register don’t object), so don’t get me wrong here. However, I want to caution people that they need to understand a few points

1. Registering does not make one a parishioner. People can post “I’m a parishioner” all they want, but that won’t make it true.
2. If people do this, they need to understand that they aren’t parishioners so that when something happens which requires parish jurisdiction, they are prepared to deal with this. As long as they are aware, it’s not a issue, but they still need to be aware.
3. Just because parish registration lists might not necessarily reflect true parishioner membership at the present time (in any one place), there is no guarantee, and indeed a growing likelihood, that in the future (short term or long term) parish boundaries will be enforced.

 

[DeepeningFaith]

So, just to throw more things into this Parish soup bowl:

I know that there are university students reading this and probably thinking “So then what Parish to I belong to when I’m at school?” I think Fr. David’s post of the Canon Law has cleared this up a bit. Father, please correct me if I am wrong.

Currently, I live with my parents in XXXX Diocese for the summer. I live in YYYY Diocese during the school year. My domicile is in XXXX while my quasi-domicile is in YYYY. When I am in XXXX living there, I can refer to myself as being part of the XXXX Diocese. When I am living at my quasi-domicile in YYYY Diocese, I am part of it.

I think that is correct.

Also, many university students belong not to a territorial parish, but to a personal parish, which are usually called in this instance, a University Parish. This I believe is what Campus Ministry Chapels are. University Parishes have their own list of what makes someone a parishioner, but usually, if you are in any way associated with the university, you belong to the personal parish.

This has probably just confused the issue, sorry.

 

[choy]

So, just to throw more things into this Parish soup bowl:

I know that there are university students reading this and probably thinking “So then what Parish to I belong to when I’m at school?” I think Fr. David’s post of the Canon Law has cleared this up a bit. Father, please correct me if I am wrong.

Currently, I live with my parents in XXXX Diocese for the summer. I live in YYYY Diocese during the school year. My domicile is in XXXX while my quasi-domicile is in YYYY. When I am in XXXX living there, I can refer to myself as being part of the XXXX Diocese. When I am living at my quasi-domicile in YYYY Diocese, I am part of it.

I think that is correct.

Also, many university students belong not to a territorial parish, but to a personal parish, which are usually called in this instance, a University Parish. This I believe is what Campus Ministry Chapels are. University Parishes have their own list of what makes someone a parishioner, but usually, if you are in any way associated with the university, you belong to the personal parish.

This has probably just confused the issue, sorry.

but what if you are renting a room outside of campus? therefore you are living in a territory of another parish

it does get complicated

 

[curlycool89]

Also, many university students belong not to a territorial parish, but to a personal parish, which are usually called in this instance, a University Parish. This I believe is what Campus Ministry Chapels are. University Parishes have their own list of what makes someone a parishioner, but usually, if you are in any way associated with the university, you belong to the personal parish.

For the most part I think. Our chapel is basically run as a full parish, offering weddings, first communions, baptisms, and RCIA. I’m not sure of the exact canonical nature, I once heard someone say that technically it’s a mission of the closest diocesan parish (although it is fully operated by a religious congregation, their priests do all the sacraments), but the Archdiocese website doesn’t say it is under the administration of any other parish (it does say that for parishes that are missions of other parishes) so I’m not sure if that’s current.

Probably about half of the people who attend do no have a relationship with the university either (for example, older people who live in the area), so I guess they would be the parishioners. Unlike a lot of college chapels too, they have a full summer schedule of masses (Saturday anticipatory, and 2 Sunday morning), with the exception of the 9pm Sunday Mass, which is mostly attended by students which is why it’s not done during the summer.

 

[losh14]

I recall a few years back when the Archdiocese of Philadelphia began enforcing parish boundaries very, very strictly. It had to do with so many parish closings.

How’d they do it? We’ve had a lot of closures in North County (since the area is rapidly depopulating - or at least, Catholics have moved out and evangelicals have moved in).

When you suggest that a person should register for the sake of accuracy, in reality you’re suggesting inacuracy because that results in a distorted view of how many parishioners are actual members of each parish. A parish might have a large registration list, but the population of that parish is much smaller.

I see your point that it’s inaccurate when we want to define parish membership by geography alone, and why this makes sense when registration is enforced on the basis of membership. My concern is that leads to an operational distortion.

Consider: If St. Francis and St. Catherine are adjoining parishes geographically, but half of St. Catherine’s membership attends St. Francis’s Masses and uses ministries at St. Francis that aren’t offered at St. Catherine, the resource usage at St. Francis is higher than that at St. Catherine. Should this be factored into decisions regarding the ecclesial tax and funds proceeding from the appeal, or should those decisions be based solely upon geographical membership?

Also, do you know if Mass attendance or other person-level measures are taken-into account when making these decisions? In other words, if a parish is assessed a higher tax on the basis of having a large geographical boundary, but relatively few within those boundaries are Catholics who would attend Mass, is that demographic information taken into account?

In a case like that, the registrations are an obstacle to the diocese having an accurate idea of just how many true parishioners live in a given parish.

That understanding may not be universal. When we told our parish director we were moving, she asked if we would still come to Mass there. We said we would, and she asked us not to transfer registration to the parish we would be living in.

Instead they have to go to their proper parish for a wedding, baptism, funeral, or something else, they learn the hard way that “going against the strictures of canon law” can have some very unfortunate consequences.

In my experience, I’ve never had a sacrament, class or participation in a ministry denied because I was participating in other than my proper parish.It might simply be that different here, maybe because of the nature of St. Louis and its many neighborhoods the bishop is either more comfortable with some fluidity or just isn’t paying attention. We actually married in a different parish than either of the two I’ve mentioned (since the one in which we were registered was under construction at the time and the one to which we geographically belonged didn’t have a convenient date open) and had no trouble arranging it with our pastor or the pastor of that other parish.

I think there would also be a tremendous conflict if a parish allows someone who is not a parishoner to register but then denies them wedding or baptism on the grounds they ought to go to their geographic parish. So if the diocese were to enforce registration at one’s geographic parish, either at time of new registration or by having a period audit of registered parishoners’ addresses, then having those unfortunate consequences follows logically and fairly. However, to try to enforce parish boundaries when those are flaunted (as we have it now in St. Louis and I’d suspect many dioceses) would anger a lot of people.

1. Registering does not make one a parishioner. People can post “I’m a parishioner” all they want, but that won’t make it true.

If you attend a parish, celebrate sacraments at a parish, register at a parish, donate to, support, and fill out your appeals from that parish, for all intents and purposes you are a parishoner. Yes, you’re not a “true” parishoner but this is where you make your community.

1. Just because parish registration lists might not necessarily reflect true parishioner membership at the present time (in any one place), there is no guarantee, and indeed a growing likelihood, that in the future (short term or long term) parish boundaries will be enforced.

We’ll cross that bridge when we come to it.

 

[losh14]

For the most part I think. Our chapel is basically run as a full parish, offering weddings, first communions, baptisms, and RCIA. I’m not sure of the exact canonical nature, I once heard someone say that technically it’s a mission of the closest diocesan parish

When I was in college and grad school, the chapel (Newman Center) was served by the closest parish and that parish’s priest.

Where we attend now is technically a Newman Center but it’s grown substantially as more alumni have settled in the area. Within the past five years, for example, they’ve started a children’s ministry. As I look on the diocesan website, we’re not actually a parish nor affiliated with a parish - our pastor is actually the diocesan director of campus ministries, so I wonder if ours is a special case. Considering our pastor’s charismatic personality (he can work a crowd like few I’ve seen), the number of new converts entering via RCIA (we’ve led the diocese each of the past four years I think), and the number of community members (since we’re not strictly a parish) who answer the call to vocations, I think the diocese takes a light touch with us.

Likewise, we also have a full summer schedule though no 9 p.m. Mass. However, we only hold one morning Mass and no Saturday Masses. Our pastor has expressed how much he prefers having the entire community together as much as possible.

 

[losh14]

but what if you are renting a room outside of campus? therefore you are living in a territory of another parish

I’d say attend wherever is closest to where you are. If you’re a traditional college student (if your permanent home is with your folks) call that your parish.

If there’s confusion and the diocese decides to enforce boundaries (as Fr. David suggests) then let the diocese tell you.

 

[Georgia]

No matter where you choose to attend, you have a responsibility to support your home parish. To some degree, you have to attend where you feel comfortable with the parish norms.

By that, I refer to a church we near where we once lived. It only took a couple of times before we decided we could not go there again. For no apparent reason, the vast majority of the congregation devoted a good twenty minutes to Mass each week. When Mass started, no more than one-third of the people who would be there were in the pews. The church really starting filling during the second reading. About half of the people bailed out on receiving and most of those remaining hit the aisles when the priest said “The Mass is ended; go in peace.” By the end of the procession, there were no more than a scattered few in the church. There was no attitude of reverence at all. It seemed to be more of a place where one went to get the weekly ticket punched. We left feeling as if we should go to another church to experience some reverence.

The earlier post about the misuse of a crying room reminded me of that parish. There is something similar, though no where near that extreme in my parish. Our church has way overgrown its main building, yet our pastor will not honor the results of a parish poll suggesting that we have an additional Mass. That means that quite a few people, likely more than 100, are in the narthex which is separated only by a glass wall. Our son had to sit there one time when his schedule put him in a time pinch. He came home vowing that he would never do that again. People talked, some walked around, no one joined in the hymns, no one responded to the Psalms, or to anything else. It was described as being as if people were watching something on television.

 

[curlycool89]

When I was in college and grad school, the chapel (Newman Center) was served by the closest parish and that parish’s priest.

I guess this would be the confusion for ours. It’s not served by the closest parish, but by priests of a religious congregation (the Basilian Fathers) who have been assigned to this particular college (4 of them in fact, and currently there’s also a seminarian on his pastoral year or whatever they call it).

 

[Rochester]

This is a very confusing issue!

I can’t seem to figure out what parish I really belong to! All this time I thought the first parish I registered in would be my parish. (Recent convert here)

 

[RosalieM]

This thread is a timely one for me. My parish is two city blocks away from where I live and I’m in the choir there. I attend Mass during the week at another parish, a cathedral that is located mid-town in my city. I prefer the homiles and going to confession there. My favorite priest (who recently became a Monsignor) is there.
I thought of changing parishes quite a few times and even considered getting a car to make attending the cathedral easier.
I was told that our archdiocese does not allow people to belong to two parishes at the same time. After reading Fr. David’s comments, I see that even if I did “resign” from my current parish and “register” at the cathedral, I’d still belong to my current parish when push comes to shove (i.e., when I leave the earth).
So I’m continuing to belong to one parish while being “in love” with another. It goes quite deep. When choir is in session nine months a year, I receive a lot participating in the liturgy. When choir’s out for the summer; I get depressed by the homilies and other parishioners at my parish. Usually I feel greatly inspired by the cathedral weekday masses. Then when I attend the weekend (mandatory) mass at my parish, I get depressed. I saw one of the parish priests in the supermarket yesterday and he ignored me. The priests at the other parish are very personable by contrast. I live alone and it makes a difference to me.
I’ll continue to attend mass at the cathedral some weekdays and perhaps on the weekends too now.
I hope my record of contributions to my parish won’t be held against me when they decline for that reason. I’ll be contributing to the parish I love.
Why is our beautiful Church so complicated?

 

[CoffeeHound]

Why is our beautiful Church so complicated?

One thing that I really dislike about many protestant churches (particularly non-denom and Baptist) is that there’s some level of “pastor worship” going on. Basically, people go to a particular “church” because they like the way the pastor speaks or what he says rather than to worship God. That’s why you get people driving from all over (passing other churches of their particular community) to go to a sports arena to see Joel Osteen every week. How many of them go to see God and how many go to see Mr. and Mrs. Osteen?

 

[losh14]

No matter where you choose to attend, you have a responsibility to support your home parish. To some degree, you have to attend where you feel comfortable with the parish norms.

I agree, there ought to be support for the home parish. When my family gets a little older, I’d really like to get involved at the local parish where we could sorely use a men’s group or a bible study or a defense of the faith group. The parish we prefer has several opportunities like this, and I think it contributes greatly to the reverence we all feel for the Mass (though it also helps that our pastor is such an on-target homilist, in fact I’m anxious to watch the recording of his homily from yesterday on the Our Father). The parish that’s local - that we belong to geographically - has a Bible study but it meets at 2 in the afternoon once a week and is attended by women in their 70s. I think there just ultimately needs to be a critical mass of interest before something begins and it needs to be the ones who are interested who start it.

I used to go to a parish when I moved back in with my folks after college that was much worse for involvement. I (and two friends) approached the parish council to ask for permission to start a young adults group that would sponsor discussions on faith, a bible study and also serve as a venue for fellowship. The parish council’s response was … well unexpected. If we wanted to start a group to encourage vocations to the clergy that was fine but no fellowship opportunities were to be allowed for fear that people would start dating one another. No “theology on tap” or “Catholic Coffee” programs, either. I can only blame it on the age of the council members and their disdain for anything spiritual outside of the Mass and the weekly Rosary groups. Glad that’s not the case here.

I think it’s up to laypeople like you and I to help reintroduce a sense of reverence within the community. The priest can only do so much - and his always risks being seen as a “top down” approach if the congregation is already in the “punch my ticket, thank you” mindset.

 

[estesbob]

So, what if you live in two separate cities and have two separate addresses. (ie: post-secondary students who live away from home most of the year, but come home for the summer?)

I have offices is two States and I am registered in both parishes. I dont see it as a problem and neither does either of my Pastors

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Oooo! raises hand

What if you live six months in, say, Japan and six months in California and have dual citizenship? Are you a member of two different parishes then?

 

[RosalieM]

One thing that I really dislike about many protestant churches (particularly non-denom and Baptist) is that there’s some level of “pastor worship” going on. Basically, people go to a particular “church” because they like the way the pastor speaks or what he says rather than to worship God. That’s why you get people driving from all over (passing other churches of their particular community) to go to a sports arena to see Joel Osteen every week. How many of them go to see God and how many go to see Mr. and Mrs. Osteen?

How is it Protestant or “pastor worship” if I am inspired by a brilliant homilist and the more reverential demeanor of the cathedral and feel welcome there? I have to overlook a few abuses in my home parish. Most of the parishioners are in cliques.
That is not the case at the cathedral. Of course Our Lord is present in both places and I may receive Him in both places. It’s just that when I have a choice; I choose the more reverential, loving place of worship.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Someone beat me to it!

 

[CoffeeHound]

How is it Protestant or “pastor worship” if I am inspired by a brilliant homilist and the more reverential demeanor of the cathedral and feel welcome there? I have to overlook a few abuses in my home parish. Most of the parishioners are in cliques.
That is not the case at the cathedral. Of course Our Lord is present in both places and I may receive Him in both places. It’s just that when I have a choice; I choose the more reverential, loving place of worship.

I’m not saying that it is pastor worship, but perhaps the Church is seeking to prevent it from getting to that level.