V
Valmabar
Guest
I am sorry. I am not trying to judg nobody. I just expressing my way of thinking which can be wrong, I admit. If I am wrong on something you need to say where or how.
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T
tzmike
Guest
No, your mind is very closed. You have the attitude of “Don’t bother me with facts because my mind is already made up”. I’ve already shown you the error of your beliefs. You’re like a boxer whos been knocked senseless and struggling to stand and who doesn’t want the match called while the referee is already calling the match over.My mind is already open. I don’t have emotions except for love. I love you and everybody who think different of me. You say that Heaven have borders as on earth, then I ask you, what passaport you will use to go there? I will put another thread were I will prove you that you are wrong on your conceptions.
The passport to get into heaven is the Grace of God and the state of your soul. If you die in a state of mortal sin you don’t get in.
Go ahead and open another thread. I’ll keep pounding you with the facts and I’ll keep proving you wrong. Apparently the only one who doesn’t see how wrong you are is you.
T
tzmike
Guest
It is not me who is the egotist, it is you. You’ve set yourself up as the ultimate arbiter of what is right and wrong. You make judgements about about me and others that are totally false. Just because the facts I’ve given you don’t match your beliefs you accuse me of having no charity, that people like me if they were firemen or health workers they would pick and choose who they would help. You couldn’t be more wrong. But you do what all liberals and those who believe in taking what is not there’s do: You start to call the oposition names because you can’t dispute the facts.On contrary. Some human law come directly from Heaven. Although they are not in all constitutions. I love what the first and second Commandment say. (I love the others too but I think they are the most).
Your particular case is not a question of sovereignty or self preservation. It is egoism. God gave us the good instincts and more, wisdom and ability for to distinguish between self preservation and selfishness. Let as take the example of our firemen. If they was like you maybe they wouldn’t risk their lives for to save another’s lives. The health workers, if they had a head like yours they wouldn’t treat the patients with infeccious deseases. If we were thinking only about our self preservations, maybe we wouldn’t take care of the seniors, our others people in need etc. You are not talking about human self preservation, your example is about the others animals self preservation.
Your way of thinking is so moved by the money that your are only capable of think what is the cost of the undocument immigration. You not even permit yourself to think about what come back. You just forgot how interdependent the nations are on each others. If United States closes its borders to the immigration and send back all undocumented today, tomorrow every country will retaliate. If you think it will be good you are perfectly mislead. Just go to your statistics and do research on how much United States imports and exports. If you think United States is better alone you are insane.
I bring up the aspect of money because that is the clearest way to show the negative impact of illegal immigration. Money is why illegals come here. When the legal tax payers have less money to support themselves and their families because their taxes are being raised because illegals take what they don’t pay for or pay into you think it’s wrong to bring up those inconvenient facts?
Why is it an all or nothing situation with you. I’m talking about illegal immigration and you want to say it’s all legal and illegal immigrants or nothing. Your way of thinking is governed by what you and others like you can take without paying for. You are a taker and not a giver. It’s all about what benefits you. Who cares if others suffer because of you.
You confuse global trade with illegal immigration. The first is necessary for a nations survival the second hurts a nations health and if left unchecked jeopardizes a nations survival. If you can not see that or you refuse to see that then YOU are insane!
V
Valmabar
Guest
My bretheren,
When I told you that what we have here is not a question of legality or not but only a problem of xenophobia I had my reasons and I reveal it to all now. Let us take some examples from our History.
Before the first English immigrants had come to Americas, were a accordance named Treaty of Tordesilhas where were defined that, Americas was being divided between Spain and Portugal, the “discovers” at the time of Americas. The treaty were blessed by the pope and cannonized as God’s Will.
When the first English immigrants came, they alleged that It was not written by God, so they didn’t recognized it. It is true but anyways they was broken the International laws.
The first English immigrants got a hard time and in needy, they were helped by the native Americans. As I am South American native descendant, I am proud of my cousins who helped the first immigrants, although their were strangely alliens looking people. What my cousins did were so important that we got a holliday dedicated to it. Happy thanksgiving day to all. It is come soon. Thanks to our cousins.
The colony probably trieved because my others ancestors, the Portugueses and Spaniards was not think about land but gold. But the descendants of the first English and others that came later needed land, and what they did? Took it from the north Americans natives. When our cousins tried to repell the invasion, they got killed defending their rights. So we have two crimes in the scenary. (Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not steal.)
Later after the English people were born in Americas acquired the identity of Americans. Before that they revolted against the mother England. Although the land was part of England by the law, our revolutionaire people thought was better abide not by the law. I don’t blame them for it but in a conservative way of thinking that the law wouldn’t never be broken, the people that are defending the unbreakability of any law maybe think that, Was better United States keep as England land.
Later after, the God’s law were often broken by stealing lands and riches from the native Americans and also by killings for it.
The historical path of United States is not a perfect one. I mentioned before the New Colonialism because it is recent and one of the factors that starts the actual immigration movement towards United States.
The point that I want make is that, the actual generations can not be blammed for what accurred in the past. Except in the recent case of the New Colonialism. The problem is that, they inherit the intire country from sin acts. The actual generations need to share what they inherit for to give a signal to God like, O Father, the starting of our inheritance was plenty of sins but sharing it with other is the indicator sign that we don’t want be part on any sin. If you retain what is part of a sin you make out of yourself equal sinner.
As I know God, He will be proud of the nation that do it.
What we are having in this dialogue is not exactly a question of legality or not. Is a difficult that some people have with sharing. I would recomend to them to read on Luke 16 the parable of the steward. Starts on the first verse. Although it is not exactly the case I think it can be useful.
I suggest that more apropriated reading can be from Luke 11. 4 Forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. I know God is always open to Forgive but only condition is we do the same.
Let God be your lead.
When I told you that what we have here is not a question of legality or not but only a problem of xenophobia I had my reasons and I reveal it to all now. Let us take some examples from our History.
Before the first English immigrants had come to Americas, were a accordance named Treaty of Tordesilhas where were defined that, Americas was being divided between Spain and Portugal, the “discovers” at the time of Americas. The treaty were blessed by the pope and cannonized as God’s Will.
When the first English immigrants came, they alleged that It was not written by God, so they didn’t recognized it. It is true but anyways they was broken the International laws.
The first English immigrants got a hard time and in needy, they were helped by the native Americans. As I am South American native descendant, I am proud of my cousins who helped the first immigrants, although their were strangely alliens looking people. What my cousins did were so important that we got a holliday dedicated to it. Happy thanksgiving day to all. It is come soon. Thanks to our cousins.
The colony probably trieved because my others ancestors, the Portugueses and Spaniards was not think about land but gold. But the descendants of the first English and others that came later needed land, and what they did? Took it from the north Americans natives. When our cousins tried to repell the invasion, they got killed defending their rights. So we have two crimes in the scenary. (Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not steal.)
Later after the English people were born in Americas acquired the identity of Americans. Before that they revolted against the mother England. Although the land was part of England by the law, our revolutionaire people thought was better abide not by the law. I don’t blame them for it but in a conservative way of thinking that the law wouldn’t never be broken, the people that are defending the unbreakability of any law maybe think that, Was better United States keep as England land.
Later after, the God’s law were often broken by stealing lands and riches from the native Americans and also by killings for it.
The historical path of United States is not a perfect one. I mentioned before the New Colonialism because it is recent and one of the factors that starts the actual immigration movement towards United States.
The point that I want make is that, the actual generations can not be blammed for what accurred in the past. Except in the recent case of the New Colonialism. The problem is that, they inherit the intire country from sin acts. The actual generations need to share what they inherit for to give a signal to God like, O Father, the starting of our inheritance was plenty of sins but sharing it with other is the indicator sign that we don’t want be part on any sin. If you retain what is part of a sin you make out of yourself equal sinner.
As I know God, He will be proud of the nation that do it.
What we are having in this dialogue is not exactly a question of legality or not. Is a difficult that some people have with sharing. I would recomend to them to read on Luke 16 the parable of the steward. Starts on the first verse. Although it is not exactly the case I think it can be useful.
I suggest that more apropriated reading can be from Luke 11. 4 Forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. I know God is always open to Forgive but only condition is we do the same.
Let God be your lead.
T
tzmike
Guest
Valmabar,
You said that you didn’t blame America for the worlds poverty. You blame the economic system to which America belongs (the theory of Neocolonialism). Then you said that New Colonialism is not an anti-American theory. New Colonialism (Neo colonialsm) attacks the west in general and then attacks America and other capitalist countries in particular.
You and all others who believe in that farsical theory of neocolonialism couldn’t be more wrong. Capitalism has saved millions of lives and given millions of people a better way of life. It doesn’t rely on who an idividual is but on how hard an idividual is willing to work.
That is why millions of immigrants flock to America.
You said that you didn’t blame America for the worlds poverty. You blame the economic system to which America belongs (the theory of Neocolonialism). Then you said that New Colonialism is not an anti-American theory. New Colonialism (Neo colonialsm) attacks the west in general and then attacks America and other capitalist countries in particular.
You and all others who believe in that farsical theory of neocolonialism couldn’t be more wrong. Capitalism has saved millions of lives and given millions of people a better way of life. It doesn’t rely on who an idividual is but on how hard an idividual is willing to work.
That is why millions of immigrants flock to America.
A
ack
Guest
Where are you getting these ideas? I know many (probably over 100) illegal immigrants through my parish and work (some of them are my close friends), and I’ve never heard anyone calling themselves a “reconquistador”, nor have I gotten the sense that anyone saw me (a white man) as an “enemy”.The racism comes from political groups inside America like “La Raza” (which is spanish for “The Race” which is a hispanic supremacist group disquised as a civil rights organization). Many of these illegals also call themselves “Los Reconquistadores” (The Reconquerors). They see the Gringos (white men) as the enemy, even though whites are not the only race living in America.
And don’t forget, it is not only hard working people that come here for a new life but also hardened criminals and gang members like MS 13 (Mara Salvatrucha).
I do know about the La Raza idiots, but their ideas have virtually no sway over anyone except Hispanic college students (most of whom are legal anyway!) and a handful of liberal activists. The vast majority of immigrants has never heard of the La Raza group and would not waste any time on their ideas.
It is true that a small number of MS-13 leaders come to the US illegally, but most of the people in these gangs are the children of those who immigrated here to find work (and if you haven’t forgotten, a native-born child of an illegal immigrant is a US citizen!)
I see that you live in Long Island, which is an area where a lot of illegal immigrants live. So, tell me – where and how are you meeting these immigrants that are joining La Raza and calling themselves reconquistadores? Or, are you simply repeating things that you have heard on right-wing websites without investigating them yourself? Be honest with me.
T
tzmike
Guest
Thanks for your “history” lesson, Valmabar. The history of human kind is replete with war and conquest. That is how nations were formed or destroyed. Even in modern times it happens (WWI and WWII as just 2 examples).
America wasn’t stolen. It was conquered. To the victor go the spoils. I know that statement is not “politically correct”, but it is true.
However, no other conquering nation has set apart land for the autonimous use by the conquered like America has done. And only America is condemned for having conquered. And America welcomes LEGAL immigrants with open arms. All are welcome to become Americans.
So you see, Valmabar, it IS about legality and illegality. There is an anual allowable quota of immigrants in America. Depending on what country you come from. European countries have the smallest allowable amount of immigrants a year (sounds racist!). There has to be a limited number that comes to America because you have to give America a chance to absorb the new comers. Plus many of the immigrants receive welfare to help them get established so they’re not living on the streets. However many immigrants don’t want to wait for the legal process and so they “jump the line” and come here illegally.
America wasn’t stolen. It was conquered. To the victor go the spoils. I know that statement is not “politically correct”, but it is true.
However, no other conquering nation has set apart land for the autonimous use by the conquered like America has done. And only America is condemned for having conquered. And America welcomes LEGAL immigrants with open arms. All are welcome to become Americans.
So you see, Valmabar, it IS about legality and illegality. There is an anual allowable quota of immigrants in America. Depending on what country you come from. European countries have the smallest allowable amount of immigrants a year (sounds racist!). There has to be a limited number that comes to America because you have to give America a chance to absorb the new comers. Plus many of the immigrants receive welfare to help them get established so they’re not living on the streets. However many immigrants don’t want to wait for the legal process and so they “jump the line” and come here illegally.
V
Valmabar
Guest
Firstly of all, I love you sincerely and I am not kidding with your feelings.It is not me who is the egotist, it is you. You’ve set yourself up as the ultimate arbiter of what is right and wrong. You make judgements about about me and others that are totally false. Just because the facts I’ve given you don’t match your beliefs you accuse me of having no charity, that people like me if they were firemen or health workers they would pick and choose who they would help. You couldn’t be more wrong. But you do what all liberals and those who believe in taking what is not there’s do: You start to call the oposition names because you can’t dispute the facts.
I bring up the aspect of money because that is the clearest way to show the negative impact of illegal immigration. Money is why illegals come here. When the legal tax payers have less money to support themselves and their families because their taxes are being raised because illegals take what they don’t pay for or pay into you think it’s wrong to bring up those inconvenient facts?
Why is it an all or nothing situation with you. I’m talking about illegal immigration and you want to say it’s all legal and illegal immigrants or nothing. Your way of thinking is governed by what you and others like you can take without paying for. You are a taker and not a giver. It’s all about what benefits you. Who cares if others suffer because of you.
You confuse global trade with illegal immigration. The first is necessary for a nations survival the second hurts a nations health and if left unchecked jeopardizes a nations survival. If you can not see that or you refuse to see that then YOU are insane!
Secondly, I don’t classify mylself as liberal. Sometimes I agree with them. Sometimes I am conservative. It depends on what I look in front of me and see the consequences that it brings to us.
Third. What you called fact is wrong. By my own experience of live. It is a lie that undocumented immigrants don’t pay taxes. Since I went United States (I came ligally and after to start working I became undocumented, until my legalization), every check that I got had the discounts by law. Every time I got to a store and bought something the taxes were included.
I was paid a small salary, so my income was low enough for I get restitutions but by being undocumented and bad oriented I didn’t filled up my Income Taxes and then I didn’t collected what I could have.
If I were underpaid was not because I wanted it. How a undocumented would say to his boss, Hei, yoh. Pay me the same a citizen would got if he was working here, otherwise!!!
Probably he would simply show me the exit door. But you are wrong thinking the money that I would make if I was citizens got nowhere. It got in the pockets of somebody and that somebody was not an undocumented one. If all the American people didn’t got what could be mine by right from my work, someone else got. It is part of why the better way for to resolve the problem is legalize the others. Just because now I am legal I will not forget those that are suffering what I suffered.
I am in favor of bring to the light every and all fact. But what I cann’t is to think that I am always the only one right and everybody is wrong.
You are wrong again. I am in favor of the legalization as you said, 30% of the carcerary population is illegal immigrants. I think it is misleading but it does not matter to my point. Could be more. The fact is that, US is paying for prisons, for officers who would be doing something more useful, to the judiciary department and everything else. It is because you were so late to give any response to the uncoordinated immigrantion movement. So, now we got a situation that needs a more carefull aprouch.
If we have a Comprehensive Law for Immigration the undocumented would be called to pay fines, pay for the process, pay for their lawers etc. When I legalized together with my wife, I expended around US 10,000.00. Even before that I was doing my income taxes. It will brought some billions to the American economy. And you know what. As in my case was happening, I start to invest here. Before, as undocumented, I used to invest overseas because it was always having a gun pointed to my head. You never know. And if I had got deported??
I know somebody can be hurt in the process. Some of members of the society are more vulnerable. The problem is that. The suffering is in both side. The way of to lead with the problem is what is separating us. But I defend the legalization because I believe it could resolve the problem in a better way. If the twelve millions or more be legalized all the structure for to control the illegal immigration would be more efficient because will be less undocumented people on the streets.
I am not confusing nothing. I know what the both sides think. Does not matter if the immigrants are here legal or not. If US deported every undocumented it would raised the antipathy for the Americans. And the consequences are not clear but are not good.
T
tzmike
Guest
Read my post again. I didn’t say all illegals. No illegal immigrant who sees himself as a reconquistador is going to tell you about the reconquistadors. They still want your good will. Just because you are not informed doesn’t make what I tell you mere “ideas”. Since those who know you may not view you as an enemy are you trying to tell me that there are none who do?Where are you getting these ideas? I know many (probably over 100) illegal immigrants through my parish and work (some of them are my close friends), and I’ve never heard anyone calling themselves a “reconquistador”, nor have I gotten the sense that anyone saw me (a white man) as an “enemy”.
I do know about the La Raza idiots, but their ideas have virtually no sway over anyone except Hispanic college students (most of whom are legal anyway!) and a handful of liberal activists. The vast majority of immigrants has never heard of the La Raza group and would not waste any time on their ideas.
It is true that a small number of MS-13 leaders come to the US illegally, but most of the people in these gangs are the children of those who immigrated here to find work (and if you haven’t forgotten, a native-born child of an illegal immigrant is a US citizen!)
I see that you live in Long Island, which is an area where a lot of illegal immigrants live. So, tell me – where and how are you meeting these immigrants that are joining La Raza and calling themselves reconquistadores? Or, are you simply repeating things that you have heard on right-wing websites without investigating them yourself? Be honest with me.
“La Raza” is more influential than you let yourself believe. They have millions of dollars at their disposal from their membership donations. If they were as incosequential as you believe where do they get their money from? Can you read all hispanic peoples minds? How do you know who is and who is not influenced by “La Raza”?
You also make it sound like MS 13 is a small inconsequential group. But I realize that that is because of your lack of experience which is a good thing. You don’t want to have any experiences with the MS 13.
My encounters on my job is where I get my info from. Personal experience. You looked at my profile but you didn’t skim down to my occupation. You accuse me of getting my information from “right wing” web sites. Are you are left wing liberal whos views are shaped by left wing web sites? Be honest with me.
C
crazzeto
Guest
Speaking as someone who immagrated here from Peru (though I was a natural born citizen, long story) I’d have to ask you to go home and do it right. Please don’t read any antimocity in this, there isn’t any but we must respect the law. Trying to do an end run along the law is hugely disrespectful to all those whom immagrated here legally.I would like to be a nun. I have 28 years and I am from Europ. I live in U.S but my visa has expired and now I have no status. Can i still be a nun and where and how?
Thanks
V
Valmabar
Guest
I know war happens. But I always pray to God for help humans avoid it. War that happen on the past were wrong. So if I be accomodated to it, I mean, If I don’t try to avoid it is the same as to be part of it. Then, to diminish the tensions is to avoid conflicts. It is why God put me on Earth.Thanks for your “history” lesson, Valmabar. The history of human kind is replete with war and conquest. That is how nations were formed or destroyed. Even in modern times it happens (WWI and WWII as just 2 examples).
America wasn’t stolen. It was conquered. To the victor go the spoils. I know that statement is not “politically correct”, but it is true.
However, no other conquering nation has set apart land for the autonimous use by the conquered like America has done. And only America is condemned for having conquered. And America welcomes LEGAL immigrants with open arms. All are welcome to become Americans.
So you see, Valmabar, it IS about legality and illegality. There is an anual allowable quota of immigrants in America. Depending on what country you come from. European countries have the smallest allowable amount of immigrants a year (sounds racist!). There has to be a limited number that comes to America because you have to give America a chance to absorb the new comers. Plus many of the immigrants receive welfare to help them get established so they’re not living on the streets. However many immigrants don’t want to wait for the legal process and so they “jump the line” and come here illegally.
You are mistaken words. Stolen and Conquered in a sense that you are using is synonym. But we can not generalize everything. Part of United States were stolen and part were Conquered. But when the indigenous people first came it was all conquest. I don’t blame only the US for stolen what is from others. As I said, I don’t even blame the actual generations.
The allowable quota that you refer to does not resolve the problem that we got in our hands now. If you think the criteria of it is unjust then is your right and duty to question it. I am a European looking although my genes come also from Africans and natives. Then I am happy for it because I can call everybody of brothers and sisters feeling it as truthful.
T
tzmike
Guest
You may not consider yourself a liberal, but the stances you take are those of a liberal.Firstly of all, I love you sincerely and I am not kidding with your feelings.
Secondly, I don’t classify mylself as liberal. Sometimes I agree with them. Sometimes I am conservative. It depends on what I look in front of me and see the consequences that it brings to us.
Third. What you called fact is wrong. By my own experience of live. It is a lie that undocumented immigrants don’t pay taxes. Since I went United States (I came ligally and after to start working I became undocumented, until my legalization), every check that I got had the discounts by law. Every time I got to a store and bought something the taxes were included.
I was paid a small salary, so my income was low enough for I get restitutions but by being undocumented and bad oriented I didn’t filled up my Income Taxes and then I didn’t collected what I could have.
If I were underpaid was not because I wanted it. How a undocumented would say to his boss, Hei, yoh. Pay me the same a citizen would got if he was working here, otherwise!!!
Probably he would simply show me the exit door. But you are wrong thinking the money that I would make if I was citizens got nowhere. It got in the pockets of somebody and that somebody was not an undocumented one. If all the American people didn’t got what could be mine by right from my work, someone else got. It is part of why the better way for to resolve the problem is legalize the others. Just because now I am legal I will not forget those that are suffering what I suffered.
I am in favor of bring to the light every and all fact. But what I cann’t is to think that I am always the only one right and everybody is wrong.
You are wrong again. I am in favor of the legalization as you said, 30% of the carcerary population is illegal immigrants. I think it is misleading but it does not matter to my point. Could be more. The fact is that, US is paying for prisons, for officers who would be doing something more useful, to the judiciary department and everything else. It is because you were so late to give any response to the uncoordinated immigrantion movement. So, now we got a situation that needs a more carefull aprouch.
If we have a Comprehensive Law for Immigration the undocumented would be called to pay fines, pay for the process, pay for their lawers etc. When I legalized together with my wife, I expended around US 10,000.00. Even before that I was doing my income taxes. It will brought some billions to the American economy. And you know what. As in my case was happening, I start to invest here. Before, as undocumented, I used to invest overseas because it was always having a gun pointed to my head. You never know. And if I had got deported??
I know somebody can be hurt in the process. Some of members of the society are more vulnerable. The problem is that. The suffering is in both side. The way of to lead with the problem is what is separating us. But I defend the legalization because I believe it could resolve the problem in a better way. If the twelve millions or more be legalized all the structure for to control the illegal immigration would be more efficient because will be less undocumented people on the streets.
I am not confusing nothing. I know what the both sides think. Does not matter if the immigrants are here legal or not. If US deported every undocumented it would raised the antipathy for the Americans. And the consequences are not clear but are not good.
Again, just because you say my facts are wrong doesn’t make them wrong. A fact is a fact. It is against the law for companies to hire illegal aliens, so you are either lying or you used someone else’s SSN. The small amount of money you or any other illegal pay in any kind of tax whether it be income tax (doubtful) or sales tax is far outweighed by the benefits received by illegals (schooling for the children of illegals, hospital costs, etc. etc.)
The costs are far outweighed by any “profits”
30% of inmates in federal prisons are illigal aliens. They’re not in jail for being illegal, they’re in jail for serious crimes like murder and rape. Should we not incarcerate them to save money as you imply in your post?
I know both sides of the argument as well. The world already has antipathy for America so deporting all illegal wont change how the world already feels. Since when should a country put their own best interest aside for the fleeting good will of other nations who already hate us?
V
Valmabar
Guest
Again. You cant generalize. If the group La Raza and the MS 13 is doing something wrong, go and make them pay for it. But don’t do the same to everybody.Read my post again. I didn’t say all illegals. No illegal immigrant who sees himself as a reconquistador is going to tell you about the reconquistadors. They still want your good will. Just because you are not informed doesn’t make what I tell you mere “ideas”. Since those who know you may not view you as an enemy are you trying to tell me that there are none who do?
“La Raza” is more influential than you let yourself believe. They have millions of dollars at their disposal from their membership donations. If they were as incosequential as you believe where do they get their money from? Can you read all hispanic peoples minds? How do you know who is and who is not influenced by “La Raza”?
You also make it sound like MS 13 is a small inconsequential group. But I realize that that is because of your lack of experience which is a good thing. You don’t want to have any experiences with the MS 13.
My encounters on my job is where I get my info from. Personal experience. You looked at my profile but you didn’t skim down to my occupation. You accuse me of getting my information from “right wing” web sites. Are you are left wing liberal whos views are shaped by left wing web sites? Be honest with me.
T
tzmike
Guest
You are greatly mistaken. No part of America was stolen. All was conquered. Stolen and conquer are not synominous. Steeling happens when no one is looking and is discovered after its been done. Conquer is a result of war in which both sides know what is happening.I know war happens. But I always pray to God for help humans avoid it. War that happen on the past were wrong. So if I be accomodated to it, I mean, If I don’t try to avoid it is the same as to be part of it. Then, to diminish the tensions is to avoid conflicts. It is why God put me on Earth.
You are mistaken words. Stolen and Conquered in a sense that you are using is synonym. But we can not generalize everything. Part of United States were stolen and part were Conquered. But when the indigenous people first came it was all conquest. I don’t blame only the US for stolen what is from others. As I said, I don’t even blame the actual generations.
The allowable quota that you refer to does not resolve the problem that we got in our hands now. If you think the criteria of it is unjust then is your right and duty to question it. I am a European looking although my genes come also from Africans and natives. Then I am happy for it because I can call everybody of brothers and sisters feeling it as truthful.
T
tzmike
Guest
I’m not generalizing. “La Raza” is a legal organization (albeit a racist organization) which tries to influence the legal process. MS 13 is a violent street gang which when they’re arrested and we do try to make them pay. Hard working illegals may not be the hardened criminal type, but they’re still breaking the law and when caught should be deported.Again. You cant generalize. If the group La Raza and the MS 13 is doing something wrong, go and make them pay for it. But don’t do the same to everybody.
A
ack
Guest
Again, where do you get the idea the “reconquistador” viewpoint is prevalent among Hispanics in the US? Of course there are a few people on the lunatic fringe who spout these ideas. I’ve also had white guys yell crazy things at me at pro-life protests, so does this mean that we should kick all the white guys out of the country too?Read my post again. I didn’t say all illegals. No illegal immigrant who sees himself as a reconquistador is going to tell you about the reconquistadors. They still want your good will. Just because you are not informed doesn’t make what I tell you mere “ideas”. Since those who know you may not view you as an enemy are you trying to tell me that there are none who do?
Any racial or ethnic group is going to have its share of crazy leftists, but I see no evidence that the illegal immigrant population has more of them than the general population.
I said nothing of the sort. As a law enforcement professional, you should know that Washington, DC is one of the major MS-13 hotspots in the US. How could I possibly be unaware of them?You also make it sound like MS 13 is a small inconsequential group. But I realize that that is because of your lack of experience which is a good thing. You don’t want to have any experiences with the MS 13.
There are a number of Hispanic gangs that operate in this region, including MS-13, Sur 13, BPL, Vato Loco, and others. However, drawing from the gang members (current and former) that I have met, Hispanics living here illegally are no more likely to be in gangs than the legal ones, which is what I said in my original post.
Your only argument here is that we could reduce crime by preventing Hispanics from coming to the US in general, but basing policy decisions on this kind of racist argument is not what democracies do.
I’m a conservative who has voted the Republican ticket ever since I was old enough to vote, so I suppose that makes me a “left wing liberal”…You accuse me of getting my information from “right wing” web sites. Are you are left wing liberal whos views are shaped by left wing web sites? Be honest with me.
In fact, let me tell you something about the neighborhood where I live. Before the recent wave of Hispanic immigration, my neighborhood was a ghetto full of drug dealers – a place where no sane person would choose to live. The parish was on the verge of closure due to low attendance. Gangs were a major threat and the rectory suffered some serious robberies.
But then, a wonderful thing happened – a wave of immigrant Hispanics moved into the neighborhood, taking advantage of low property values and displacing the crackhouses. Crime began to drop and the non-Hispanic gangs moved elsewhere. We do have problems with Hispanic gangs that we didn’t before (see above), but the departure of the other gangs more than makes up for it. Our parish has also experienced a boom – contributions are up, attendance in our CCD programs has increased 1000%, and we now have many volunteers to undertake all sorts of improvements and ministries in our parish.
In our case, very few of the traditional “gentrifiers” moved in – it was the immigrants who brought their familes into the neighborhood.
If all the Hispanics in my neighborhood disappeared, what would happen? Attendence at my parish would collapse, we would no longer be able to pay our bills or staff our ministries, and the parish would probably close. Vacancies would rise, property values would collapse, and our old gang problem would probably come back. (Counties that passed tough anti-illegal laws, such as Prince William county in Virginia, experienced this – vacancies started rising before the housing crisis even hit).
But hey – there woudn’t be any more La Raza members or reconquistadores, so you would be happy, right?
V
Valmabar
Guest
Then give them the legalization. Except for the criminals. Your statistics on them are so wrong because US have about ten millions inmates or more. If 30% of them were illegal, it give us 3 millions. It would be 25% of the undocumented population. In a recent publishing by the Federal Administration they found that the percentage of crimes by the undocumented population is inferior to the overhall population. Then you are lying or being mislead.You may not consider yourself a liberal, but the stances you take are those of a liberal.
Again, just because you say my facts are wrong doesn’t make them wrong. A fact is a fact. It is against the law for companies to hire illegal aliens, so you are either lying or you used someone else’s SSN. The small amount of money you or any other illegal pay in any kind of tax whether it be income tax (doubtful) or sales tax is far outweighed by the benefits received by illegals (schooling for the children of illegals, hospital costs, etc. etc.)
The costs are far outweighed by any “profits”
30% of inmates in federal prisons are illigal aliens. They’re not in jail for being illegal, they’re in jail for serious crimes like murder and rape. Should we not incarcerate them to save money as you imply in your post?
I know both sides of the argument as well. The world already has antipathy for America so deporting all illegal wont change how the world already feels. Since when should a country put their own best interest aside for the fleeting good will of other nations who already hate us?
If I am saying what you took as fact is wrong is because I believe it is not a fact. And I gave reasons for that. I forget even of tell you. Some of my friends lied to the Treasury Department. They declared more money than they make. Their intentions is have not return because they believe on that, it could interefere with their legalization when it come.
Anyways, even when someone uses a false number for to make the income taxes the money goes to the government. It will be used in favor of the society not matter when.
Your assumptions are wrong. Not everybody hates United States. Most of all they don’t even care. These discussion of hatred is a fiasco. In my original country I know many people who desdains Americans. But when we have one American going there and talking to them they soon start a good friendship. Only the sectarians which are minimal got real hatred.
No one want a nation put its best interests aside. What I say is that, the best interest for United State and Americans now is to legalize the undocumented immigrants.
A
ack
Guest
How could this possibly be true? According to the latest DOJ report (ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/pim08st.pdf see Table 16), less then 20% of prisoners were Hispanic, period.30% of inmates in federal prisons are illigal aliens. They’re not in jail for being illegal, they’re in jail for serious crimes like murder and rape. Should we not incarcerate them to save money as you imply in your post?
Even if every Hispanic prisoner was an illegal alien, you would still be missing over 200,000 inmates, unless you assume that huge numbers of criminal illegal aliens are non-Hispanic (and this population is almost negligible.)
V
Valmabar
Guest
So La Raza is a legal organization. They abide by the law and you don’t like them. So your are suspect in to do your oponion about them.I’m not generalizing. “La Raza” is a legal organization (albeit a racist organization) which tries to influence the legal process. MS 13 is a violent street gang which when they’re arrested and we do try to make them pay. Hard working illegals may not be the hardened criminal type, but they’re still breaking the law and when caught should be deported.
I know MS 13 is what you said. But here they are out of context. You can blame the undocumented for its actions.
As I said before: God forgive us our trespassings as we forgive the trespassings of others against us. (I shall quote Jesus).
F
Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
This is where racism comes in. Not every illegal alien is of Hispanic origin.How could this possibly be true? According to the latest DOJ report (ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/pim08st.pdf see Table 16), less then 20% of prisoners were Hispanic, period.
Even if every Hispanic prisoner was an illegal alien, you would still be missing over 200,000 inmates, unless you assume that huge numbers of criminal illegal aliens are non-Hispanic (and this population is almost negligible.)
Not every person from Mexico or even Central or South America are of Hispanic origin. There are Native populations from those areas that would not be considered Hispanic.
But again, not every illegal alien comes from Mexico, Central, or South America.
Here is a link to the actual stastics.
Statistices: Crimes Commited by Illegal Aliens
As you can see, it says that the illegal aliens make up 30% of the prison population nationwide.
It also lists some interesting numbers for some states as well as crimes.
I must add that this was easy to find with a quick google search.
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