Can I be Catholic?

[nightranger]

Even though OSAS is an incoherent and heretical doctrine with no support in tradition and little in Scripture, which only comforts those who either embrace antinomianism, don’t think things through very carefully, or have a very strong faith (in other words, it is of absolutely no help whatever to a thoughtful, critically minded, ethically sensitive person who struggles in faith).

This is irrelevant. But you introduced the irrelevance.

Why is this irrelevant? Millions of people happily embrace OSAS doctrine. Since they don’t know any better, they will not suffer punishment because of it. Perhaps it seems incoherent to you (and possibly me), but it certainly does not to them.

 

[Michael_Francis]

The answer is really pretty simple. If you’re gonna be Catholic, the go all the way.

The reason that your wife’s conversion is key for your child’s baptism is that Catholics commit themselves to raise their children in the faith, and to be honest, it doesn’t sound like either of you are ready to do that.

Your wife probably needs an annulment though because it may have been a non-Christian marriage that may have been a defect. I don’t know. Best to ask your priest about that.

Don’t listen to anyone who badmouths the Church as some have in this thread. For every ringer like that on an internet forum of this size there are thousands more who can and will help and encourage you.

Sure you can be Catholic, but ya gotta want it as much as your next breath.

 

[Church_Militant]

The answer is really pretty simple. If you’re gonna be Catholic, the go all the way.

The reason that your wife’s conversion is key for your child’s baptism is that Catholics commit themselves to raise their children in the faith, and to be honest, it doesn’t sound like either of you are ready to do that.

Your wife probably needs an annulment though because it may have been a non-Christian marriage that may have been a defect. I don’t know. Best to ask your priest about that.

Don’t listen to anyone who badmouths the Church as some have in this thread. For every ringer like that on an internet forum of this size there are thousands more who can and will help and encourage you.

Sure you can be Catholic, but ya gotta want it as much as your next breath.

 

[Church_Militant]

Why is this irrelevant? Millions of people happily embrace OSAS doctrine. Since they don’t know any better, they will not suffer punishment because of it. Perhaps it seems incoherent to you (and possibly me), but it certainly does not to them.

Don’t bet on that.

I used to be one of them and the fact is that most buy into it because it assuages their conscience of their daily sins. I would never rest my eternal soul on such a premise, and especially one that holds so very little truth according to the Word of God.

 

[David_Alexander]

Thank you all for posting, I have only just had a chance to read through the latest responses properly.

maltmom, thank you and God bless you.

Maryann C, thank you for the link, and your suggestions. The Church does recognize non-Christian marriages. If my wife’s ex had been baptized regardless of whether he stayed in the faith, (especially Catholic) then the marriage would be automatically invalid. But he was not affiliated to any religion. I am not saying that I have totally given up on an annulment, it just seems unlikely from my investigations so far, but I do absolutely have faith in God, and given my wife’s willingness to accept Christ into her heart along with the Church, this may be the best option i.e. her conversion, God willing. To answer your question, I had written Catholic as my religion because that is how I felt and feel in my heart. But in the moments of confusion and frustration that led to this thread, I changed it to Christian because I felt in all of this, wherever I was and am heading, Jesus remains my inspiration in all things. Frankly, I am still happy with the term Christian, because Catholic describes my dedication and passion for the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, and Christian represents unity in Christ.

Edwin, I do truly repent of my sins, I acknowledge my human frailties. I just do not feel living as brother and sister would be the answer from a selfish, selfless, or spiritual point of view. I recognize I may be wrong, but that is my instinct. It has nothing to do with sex, and everything to do with love and the close bond of man and wife leading their family. Thank you for your interest in my situation, I pray that all is well with you and your loved ones, and that you are all pursuing a close path to God.

Kathryn Ann, I absolutely trust in God and in the Church. I will continue to attend Church, as I have been attending intensively for months, and have been absorbing a wide range of Catholic study materials, including Scott Hahn via the Internet and a New Testament study I have. I have been enriched beyond measure by beginning to recognize sin, the Rosary, by the Stations Of The Cross, by Mass, by reading the Bible in a new light, by prayer in various forms, by love! Thank you for your encouraging words, your love shines brightly through them.

benjohnson, I totally sympathize with your advice, but I must say the Church is my home now, at least in this dimension. This thread, right at the start, helped me to realize that. Your selflessness is admirable with regard to your dedication to your family, and I would like to think I share in it, but above all things I want to lead my family to a life of righteousness and love in God through the Church.

Church Militant, I want Catholicism, believe me, and I do not wish to boast but I can discuss the Church and the faith with greater conviction and with far more detail than many baptized Catholics I know. But they have been blessed with different paths, and I wish upon them love, which is far greater than knowledge. But love and knowledge together can inspire faith and understanding in others all the better. It is true that my wife may not be ready to teach the faith to our children, and it is true that I have much more to learn, but we have opened ourselves as a family to Christ already, which seemed impossible even just a few months ago. I know we must be patient, but once a person accepts God, the transformation can be instantaneous, and holding back that passion is not easy. Nevertheless, channeling that passion is important, and patience is a virtue. I just do not want you to think we are taking this light-heartedly, I hope this message does not come across as egotistical, because it is not intended in that way. My faults are many, and the gaps in my knowledge are wide, but they can happily be filled by remembering the simplicity of the Christian message found in love.

GOD BLESS ALL OF YOU!

 

[Rabbity]

I’m sure things will eventually work out for you but in case things become a worse tangle, another option to consider would be the Orthodox church. The catholics recognize their rites as valid and, while they discourage divorce, they don’t have an annulment requirement for prior marriages.

Best wishes David and hope you and your wife can sort things out.

 

[Holly3278]

Try to have patience and longsuffering. Pray for these gifts of the Holy Spirit if you must.

 

[Contarini]

Aside from your assumption about the priest being unwilling to ask a secularly married husband and wife to stop living as husband and wife.
Are you suggesting that a priest should baptize and accept into the Church a person who has no intention of repenting (turning from sin) ? Isn’t that what Jesus taught and isn’t that what His apostles passed on? They would say repent and be baptized. Is that the legalism you are referring to???

No. That would be rigorous, but worthy of respect. Not legalistic at all. I seem incapable of making myself clear to Catholics on this point. No matter how many times I say “my problem is with priests who are trying to be sensitive and thus never raise the fact that the act of sexual intercourse is the issue,” people assume I’m attacking the strictness of the Church’s stance.

I was taught as a child that people who were divorced and remarried would have to leave their present spouses in order to live as Christians. Admittedly, my family softened this position a bit later on.

I do not confuse strictness with legalism. I use legalism to mean something quite specific–the use of legal technicalities in order to deal with the difficulties of an ethical/religious position.

For instance, I once knew some Pentecostal/Holiness folks who wouldn’t watch TV–but they watched movies on a computer screen. They wouldn’t play games involving dice–but they would pull numbers out of a bag. And so on. That’s legalism.

Saying “we don’t watch TV” period is not legalism. Saying “we don’t play games of chance because we think it’s morally corrupting” is not legalism.

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

Edwin, I do truly repent of my sins, I acknowledge my human frailties. I just do not feel living as brother and sister would be the answer from a selfish, selfless, or spiritual point of view.

David, I was not so presumptuous as to tell you that you ought to do this. I was simply pointing out that this is the missing option in the situation as you described it. Maryann is right that I jumped to the conclusion that the priest hadn’t mentioned this–but you certainly didn’t put it that way.

I don’t think there are any easy answers to the question of divorce and remarriage. I probably like the Orthodox approach (“economia,” or “concession to human weakness”) the best, but it’s certainly not perfect either.

Edwin

 

[David_Alexander]

Firstly I want to thank everyone for all your advice, both privately and on this thread.

I have been reflecting intensely on this matter for the last few days, and I have reached the conclusion that I can no longer in right mind and heart pursue the Roman Catholic faith, at least for now.

I had convinced myself that the only way to be close to God was through the Roman Catholic sacraments and the Church which provides them (even just observing them), but around the time of Pentecost (before and since) I have come to a more balanced view, in my opinion.

I believe wholeheartedly in Jesus Christ and in His message, and I pray to God that I am able to make the best decision for myself and my family. But while I accept that divorce is not to be promoted, I can neither in my right mind accept annulment as a viable alternative. My wife was married, albeit in another faith, and I cannot simply wipe that under the rug and say it never happened. Part of repentance is accepting the truth of our past. Moreover, we want to live honest, righteous lives in Christ, and I see no good reason why we should not have the opportunity to now fully be accepted by a church of Christ. If the Roman Catholic Church will not give us that opportunity, it raises questions about who and what the Church is serving.

This brings me on to this issue of patience. Why do we have to be so patient in waiting to receive the sacraments? For spiritual welfare? What harm is there is receiving the Eucharist if one earnestly wishes to do so, and as Jesus instructed us to do? There are accounts in the Bible of people being made faithful followers of Christ instantaneously. Why then can we not all do the same?

Moreover, even if these issues could be surmounted, I have honestly asked myself questions about the Church’s views on gay marriage, and the attitude towards homosexuality generally. I can no longer accept that homosexuality is a ‘cross to bear’. A loving, consensual adult couple should be entitled to share in God’s love as most of the world has the chance to do. If something exists naturally, then it is natural. I cannot say why homosexuality exists, but there must be a reason for it, and it is only made evil when we marginilise those who are born with or who develop such inclinations. I do not say that fornication should be accepted as righteous behavior, and so we should have a framework in which all adult consensual couples can share in God’s love. Even if there is a chance that this is immoral, there is sufficent doubt that I would be inclined to leave judgment in God’s hands and worry more about what we are doing as individuals to spread love not prejudice, and to cultivate grace. Prejudice in all its forms saddens me deeply, and I really feel the stance on gay marriage is more likely to promote prejudice rather than love. Did Christ not reach out to lepers? Did He not look favourably on the Samaritan? Did He not accept the lost sheep, the prodigal son without asking us to judge whether they were truly repentent or not?

Finally, the Pope is a man, and as such, is not infallible.

Ok, now I have poured out some of my feelings, I want to say that I still consider myself Catholic in many ways. Probably the Anglican Church is the way forward for me.

Fundamentally, I love you all, we are all brothers and sisters in Christ, and I pray for the continued strength of the churches that support our faith and our communities, but also for their continued enlightenment. Our unity can be achieved simply by loving each other, we do not even need to share the same pews, priests, bishops, or even sacraments.

God bless you all.

 

[Michael_Francis]

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