Can I do "penance" for other people?

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onegirlinchrist

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Hi All,

I am interested in the concept of “offering up” my sufferings, rosaries, prayers, fasts, etc. to help people in my life who could really use some extra grace. I have many friends and family who are far from the Catholic Church and I want them to come home to Rome!

So today, for example, is Friday and for penance I am fasting. When I fast on someone’s behalf, is it possible for me to “earn” graces which can then be “credited” to a particular person’s spiritual account so to speak? Wondering exactly how this works. Can they receive extra grace because of something I do on their behalf? I’m assuming I can’t do penance for them in the sense of of my sufferings removing some of their temporal guilt, right?

Thanks!
 
Hi All,

I am interested in the concept of “offering up” my sufferings, rosaries, prayers, fasts, etc. to help people in my life who could really use some extra grace. I have many friends and family who are far from the Catholic Church and I want them to come home to Rome!

So today, for example, is Friday and for penance I am fasting. When I fast on someone’s behalf, is it possible for me to “earn” graces which can then be “credited” to a particular person’s spiritual account so to speak? Wondering exactly how this works. Can they receive extra grace because of something I do on their behalf? I’m assuming I can’t do penance for them in the sense of of my sufferings removing some of their temporal guilt, right?

Thanks!
Sure! Prayer, fasting/penance, and almsgiving are all great things to “offer up” for others.

We needn’t look at it in too mechanical a way as though it is a spiritual debit/credit system. But we can certainly offer up our prayers and sufferings for those we love. God hears our prayers.

You are correct that you cannot do penance in the sense of removing their temporal guilt. That’s why we can only earn indulgences for ourselves or apply them to those who have already died.
 
Hi All,

I am interested in the concept of “offering up” my sufferings, rosaries, prayers, fasts, etc. to help people in my life who could really use some extra grace. I have many friends and family who are far from the Catholic Church and I want them to come home to Rome!

So today, for example, is Friday and for penance I am fasting. When I fast on someone’s behalf, is it possible for me to “earn” graces which can then be “credited” to a particular person’s spiritual account so to speak? Wondering exactly how this works. Can they receive extra grace because of something I do on their behalf? I’m assuming I can’t do penance for them in the sense of of my sufferings removing some of their temporal guilt, right?

Thanks!
I have to admit, I struggle with ‘earning’ grace. Or ‘meriting’ grace. I think grace is a free gift and nothing I do can ‘earn’ it. Especially after reading this in Romans:

Romans 11:6 (RSV)

But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

Just my 2 cents

SJ
 
I have to admit, I struggle with ‘earning’ grace. Or ‘meriting’ grace. I think grace is a free gift and nothing I do can ‘earn’ it. Especially after reading this in Romans:

Romans 11:6 (RSV)

But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

Just my 2 cents

SJ
You need to take the whole of Scripture into the equation, not an isolated verse. There are many references in the NT to works being connected to salvation.

In a very high level answer, the Church teaches that we cannot merit in strict justice. That would violate the verse you mention. We can, however, merit congruently i.e. God has set things up whereby He can establish a promised reward in return for something we do. This actually explains many NT verses (Romans 2:10, for example) very well.
 
I have to admit, I struggle with ‘earning’ grace. Or ‘meriting’ grace. I think grace is a free gift and nothing I do can ‘earn’ it. Especially after reading this in Romans 11:6 (RSV)

But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace. just my 2 cents SJ
Aren’t the “works” St. Paul is writing about the observances of the Mosaic law, certainly not the works of saving Grace of Our Lord. Isn’t he writing to a remnant of pious Jews, who have believed in in the saving work of Christ Jesus and not the works of “observances of the Mosaic law?”
 
Aren’t the “works” St. Paul is writing about the observances of the Mosaic law, certainly not the works of saving Grace of Our Lord. Isn’t he writing to a remnant of pious Jews, who have believed in in the saving work of Christ Jesus and not the works of “observances of the Mosaic law?”
I don’t believe it has to do with the Mosaic law. The Greek word here for works is ‘ergon’ which means to toil, labor, etc. It’s the same word used in Romans when St Paul talks about ‘works’ referring to Abraham

Romans 4:1-3 (RSV)

4 What then shall we say about[a] Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.”
 
I have to admit, I struggle with ‘earning’ grace. Or ‘meriting’ grace. I think grace is a free gift and nothing I do can ‘earn’ it. Especially after reading this in Romans:

Romans 11:6 (RSV)

But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

Just my 2 cents

SJ
I hear you. I spent a few years in evangelical Protestantism and the idea of “works based” righteousness was one of the things that turned me away from Catholicism initially. Hmm…

Not saying this will entirely resolve things for you, but maybe one way to look at it is this:

Catholics agree with Protestants that ultimately Christ did for us what we could never do for ourselves. We would never be capable of doing enough good works to get ourselves into heaven. So there is plenty of unearned grace in that sense.

Because we have free will though, we can choose to turn to God and get more divine helps (grace). Our good works are our way of exercising our free will and saying: “yes God, I want to be holy. Send more help please.” So, when we choose to be baptize, we receive grace. When we choose to pray, we receive grace. When we fast, give alms, help others, etc. we obtain grace. We get it because we asked for it, and because we choose to live in accordance with God’s moral law. There would be moral chaos if good and bad actions had the same consequences. Because good works please God, he rewards them. Because bad works do not please God, He does not reward them. God’s rewards are not necessarily temporal, so we do not earn our way into a big house or high paying job (e.g. prosperity gospel). But whenever we do good, we do grow in holiness. Once you decide that you love God and want a share in His divine life, it becomes a breath of relief that there’s something you can actually do about it. You aren’t powerless. You don’t have stay sinful. You can choose to grow holier, and thus be happier.

Again, the good news is that when it comes to our holiness, we can actually have a say in the matter. We can choose to have a greater (or lesser) share in the divine life. This is in accordance with God’s plan of salvation: salvation is an invitation to become a son or daughter of God. God wants his children to grow in holiness, intelligence, wisdom, etc. He requires us to put effort into holiness because he wants us to actually become holy. This is different from the Protestant judgement where Christ will stand in the sinner’s place, so that God sees Christ and not the sinner. In the Catholic judgement, God sees us (and what we have become and done with our lives) just as we are. Those who go to Heaven will actually be holy, not just declared so. Good thing, to, because in Heaven we will still have free will. If we remained in a sinful frame of mind after being admitted into heaven, heaven would not be a place of perfect righteousness.

The good news is that God promises to make up the difference. If we choose Him and do our best, he will be merciful. He does not hold us guilty for sins we committed in ignorance. So that counts as unearned grace. And, to my knowledge, in Catholic theology, the conversion process begins with something God does in us. Faith is a gift. People either choose to accept it or not. But the whole process begins with God. That in itself is unearned grace. We turn to God in the first place, because he reached out to us first. Thereby, our conversion is one big gift of grace.

So in Catholicism, there is unearned grace. However, God honors our free will and let’s us decide if we want to accept His invitation to become part of his divine family, with all the responsibility that go with that. Grace is holiness, a share in the divine life. It is not compatible with sinfulness. We simply can not be full of grace if we are also very sinful. So grace and holiness, (and thus responsibility) go together. God doesn’t force His graces on others because He doesn’t force righteousness on others. He gives us a say in the matter. Do we want to live a holy life, and live in grace? We choose. And, unlike Calvinist theology, Catholics believe that this salvation invitation is extended to every person and that no one will be “left out” unless they choose it.

Sorry for the length, not sure if that was helpful. Hopefully relevant. A complicated topic to be sure, and certainly not one I fully understand. These are just new ways of considering the matter that have occurred to me upon turning to Catholicism.
 
Sure! Prayer, fasting/penance, and almsgiving are all great things to “offer up” for others.

We needn’t look at it in too mechanical a way as though it is a spiritual debit/credit system. But we can certainly offer up our prayers and sufferings for those we love. God hears our prayers.

You are correct that you cannot do penance in the sense of removing their temporal guilt. That’s why we can only earn indulgences for ourselves or apply them to those who have already died.
Thanks for that. You know, I’ve been wondering…

How is it helpful to pray for others, when they have their free will? I want to pray for some very hard hearted folks who are not likely to ever turn to Catholicism. I wonder how my prayers can help. I’m sure God is doing all He can to soften their hearts, as it is. They seem to be choosing very firmly to resist whatever grace He is extending. In what way is it helpful for me to continue praying? Will God indeed “work harder” on an individual because I prayed? Or is this one of those situations where I accept on faith and trust in God, that I should continue praying, and trust that somehow this will be helpful even if the theology isn’t something my finite human mind can understand right now?
 
Thanks for that. You know, I’ve been wondering…

How is it helpful to pray for others, when they have their free will? I want to pray for some very hard hearted folks who are not likely to ever turn to Catholicism. I wonder how my prayers can help. I’m sure God is doing all He can to soften their hearts, as it is. They seem to be choosing very firmly to resist whatever grace He is extending. In what way is it helpful for me to continue praying? Will God indeed “work harder” on an individual because I prayed? Or is this one of those situations where I accept on faith and trust in God, that I should continue praying, and trust that somehow this will be helpful even if the theology isn’t something my finite human mind can understand right now?
Your prayers most certainly will help! From the Diary of Saint Faustina…
Jesus said: **“The prayer most pleasing to Me is the prayer for conversion. Know, My daughter, that this prayer is always heard and answered."
“When you say this prayer, with a contrite heart and with faith on behalf of some sinner, I will give that soul the grace of conversion. This is the prayer:
O Blood and Water, which gushed forth from the Heart of Jesus as a Fount of Mercy for us, I trust in You." **
 
Aren’t the “works” St. Paul is writing about the observances of the Mosaic law, certainly not the works of saving Grace of Our Lord. Isn’t he writing to a remnant of pious Jews, who have believed in in the saving work of Christ Jesus and not the works of “observances of the Mosaic law?”
Chapter 9 begins by switching the projected target audience to “Unbelieving Israel” and writes to them until Chapter 11 verse 12. He is appealing to them that faith in Jesus is the end of the law and that while refusing to submit to Him (now that they heard the Gospel) they cannot be justified by their works. So yes, he was writing about the works of the law but he was writing to a group of pious Jews who would not submit to Jesus.
 
Thanks for that. You know, I’ve been wondering…

How is it helpful to pray for others, when they have their free will? I want to pray for some very hard hearted folks who are not likely to ever turn to Catholicism. I wonder how my prayers can help. I’m sure God is doing all He can to soften their hearts, as it is. They seem to be choosing very firmly to resist whatever grace He is extending. In what way is it helpful for me to continue praying? Will God indeed “work harder” on an individual because I prayed? Or is this one of those situations where I accept on faith and trust in God, that I should continue praying, and trust that somehow this will be helpful even if the theology isn’t something my finite human mind can understand right now?
Prayer is a somewhat mysterious thing.

The way I look at it is that God wants us to participate in the work of redemption because it is good for us. Certainly, He is more than capable of doing, well, anything. He does not need our help. But we need to be able to help. If we could not, then we would have much less motivation to pray at all. We would take a passive role in life and just let God do everything for us. But being active participants is how we grow in holiness and grow closer to the Lord.

The whole history of salvation in Scripture and Church history is one where God works with us to accomplish His saving will. Us praying for the hard-hearted is part of that story. What effect it may have, we probably won’t know until the next life.
 
Your prayers most certainly will help! From the Diary of Saint Faustina…
Oh, wow! I have never heard of that, thank you! I will read more about Saint Faustina and this prayer. That prayer is exactly what I need to be saying right now. Thank you so much!!
 
Prayer is a somewhat mysterious thing.

The way I look at it is that God wants us to participate in the work of redemption because it is good for us. Certainly, He is more than capable of doing, well, anything. He does not need our help. But we need to be able to help. If we could not, then we would have much less motivation to pray at all. We would take a passive role in life and just let God do everything for us. But being active participants is how we grow in holiness and grow closer to the Lord.

The whole history of salvation in Scripture and Church history is one where God works with us to accomplish His saving will. Us praying for the hard-hearted is part of that story. What effect it may have, we probably won’t know until the next life.
Thank you, that makes sense. It’s one of those opportunities to exercises faith. Is it true that God answers every prayer, just not in the way we might be expecting/hoping? So lets say I pray for someone’s conversion and they are very resistant to God’s graces. They don’t convert. But can I be confident that in a mysterious way, my prayer was not answered? That it accomplished some good? As you have already explained, perhaps that good is the deepening of my own conversion…
 
I have to admit, I struggle with ‘earning’ grace. Or ‘meriting’ grace. I think grace is a free gift and nothing I do can ‘earn’ it. Especially after reading this in Romans:

Romans 11:6 (RSV)

But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

Just my 2 cents

SJ
If that’s the case, you don’t believe in salvation through faith and works, which is problematic since that is Catholic dogma de fide. It must be believed in order to be Catholic. Protestants believe that salvation is through faith alone, this nothing we do can merit grace.
 
Thank you, that makes sense. It’s one of those opportunities to exercises faith. Is it true that God answers every prayer, just not in the way we might be expecting/hoping? So lets say I pray for someone’s conversion and they are very resistant to God’s graces. They don’t convert. But can I be confident that in a mysterious way, my prayer was not answered? That it accomplished some good? As you have already explained, perhaps that good is the deepening of my own conversion…
Yes, God always answers, but not always as we are expecting.

With praying for others conversion, obviously our prayers do not take away that person’s free will. But I just trust God to apply the grace. He knows better how to do that than I do anyway.

When I was in college, I prayed nightly for the lead singer of one of my favorite bands as many of their lyrics were somewhat anti-Christian, but revealed a man who was sincerely struggling and in pain. After a year or so of my praying, he left the band. Sometimes I think about where he is now and what impact that my prayers may have had. But I suppose I will never know in this life. And that’s okay.
 
Oh, wow! I have never heard of that, thank you! I will read more about Saint Faustina and this prayer. That prayer is exactly what I need to be saying right now. Thank you so much!!
Although it’s not binding on the faithful the Church recognizes and approves some private revelation as worthy of belief such as Fatima and Saint Faustina’s diary “Divine Mercy In My Soul.”

On May 13, 1917: This was spoken by Our Lady of Fatima to the 3 little children: “Are you willing to offer yourselves to God and bear all the sufferings He wills to send you, as an act of reparation for the conversion of sinners?” “Then you are going to have much to suffer, but the grace of God will be your comfort.”

The whole Fatima premise is that Our Lady will assist us to make an offering to God of the fulfillment of our daily duties consistent with our station in life for the conversion of sinners leading to the salvation of their souls.

For example, this is a version of the morning offering prayer said by souls consecrated to Our Lady:
*“Oh my Jesus I desire today to gain every indulgence and merit I can and I offer them together with myself to Mary Immaculate, that she may best apply them to the interests of Thy Most Secret Heart. Amen” *
 
Yes, God always answers, but not always as we are expecting.

With praying for others conversion, obviously our prayers do not take away that person’s free will. But I just trust God to apply the grace. He knows better how to do that than I do anyway.

When I was in college, I prayed nightly for the lead singer of one of my favorite bands as many of their lyrics were somewhat anti-Christian, but revealed a man who was sincerely struggling and in pain. After a year or so of my praying, he left the band. Sometimes I think about where he is now and what impact that my prayers may have had. But I suppose I will never know in this life. And that’s okay.
Thank you, and that’s very interesting about the lead singer. You never know! I think you are right that we will ultimately not understand the good effects of all of our actions until the next life. Also, the more I thought about it, it doesn’t really matter what God exactly does with my prayers, in the sense that…

Aren’t we strongly exhorted (commanded?) to pray persistently? There’s the line from Thessalonians, “pray without ceasing”, and the parable of the unjust judge. I’m sure there are other instances in scripture. The Church prays relentlessly for the world, day by day, at every mass and in the divine office. It’s just something we’re supposed to do, and sort of trust God to do with those prayers what He will.

When I was giving Catholicism a second look, there was a video posted on the Catholics Come Home website with a line in it that resonated, “We’ve been praying for you” it said. I appreciate lines in the mass where we pray for the unity of Christendom and the conversion of those who are not in the Church. I was one of those people for a very long time. It’s nice to think of those prayers helping me personally. Also, I have wondered many times why this world doesn’t just fall apart given it’s sinfulness. When I was first learning about Catholic religious vocations, I read something about their prayers sustaining the world. A very beautiful concept, and makes sense!
 
Although it’s not binding on the faithful the Church recognizes and approves some private revelation as worthy of belief such as Fatima and Saint Faustina’s diary “Divine Mercy In My Soul.”

On May 13, 1917: This was spoken by Our Lady of Fatima to the 3 little children: “Are you willing to offer yourselves to God and bear all the sufferings He wills to send you, as an act of reparation for the conversion of sinners?” “Then you are going to have much to suffer, but the grace of God will be your comfort.”

The whole Fatima premise is that Our Lady will assist us to make an offering to God of the fulfillment of our daily duties consistent with our station in life for the conversion of sinners leading to the salvation of their souls.

For example, this is a version of the morning offering prayer said by souls consecrated to Our Lady:
*“Oh my Jesus I desire today to gain every indulgence and merit I can and I offer them together with myself to Mary Immaculate, that she may best apply them to the interests of Thy Most Secret Heart. Amen” *
Hmmmm…

How timely, because my parish is having a special Fatima Mass and celebration this evening. I already wanted to go, but now I really want to go. Conversion of family and loved ones is the closest thing to my heart right now. I am most definitely interested in how my daily life can be used to assist in this.

Thank you, I will research further!

On a side note, you mentioned these revelations were not binding on the faithful. However, if they are “church approved” why would any Catholic reject them?
 
On a side note, you mentioned these revelations were not binding on the faithful. However, if they are “church approved” why would any Catholic reject them?
Probably for the same reason St. Thomas didn’t believe they had seen the risen Lord.
John 20:25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
 
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