Can i expect him to ever train his eyes, and is his still looking as wrong as i feel it is?

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*I agree, Bob.

I think too, when we are faced with challenges that we know affect others adversely, we make excuses…we justify the behavior…we simply put, DON’T WANT TO CHANGE. Once you admit you have a problem, you have to try to fix it. If you don’t, it will eat at you. Same holds true here. Human beings are not that complicated, and we all have this common bond. It is sometimes easier to wallow in the familiar, no matter how sinful and ugly it is, than get out of the mud we’re wallowing in, and clean ourselves off. I pray that your husband Rachel, decides to change…and accepts the gaces to do so, afforded to him by our Lord. I pray for you, too…that you can regain a sense of peace about things, because I can tell this has caused you a lot of angst. 😦 Understandably.

You’re in my prayers. *
 
I went for a walk with him tonight to go past a couple houses he is looking at buying to live in until i let him back and then rent out after that. I told him that I really want to work things out but that there is no way if he sees nothing wrong with his eyes going to our daughters’ bottoms, breasts, etc. He said that he wants to work things out but he thinks i may see his eyes ‘accidentally’ go there and i will be upset again. Fathers – do your eyes ‘accidentally’ go to your daughters’ bottoms, etc? Is this acceptable? He says it’s not right but not a sin so no one should be upset. He agrees it is wrong of a man to look at women other than his wife that way, but that looking at his own daughters isn’t wrong. He still looks at other women, says he shouldn’t but can’t help it but is trying not to, but when it comes to our own daughters, he has a block about it being wrong.
 
Fathers – do your eyes ‘accidentally’ go to your daughters’ bottoms, etc? Is this acceptable?..but that looking at his own daughters isn’t wrong.
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rachel, you can’t really need an answer to this, can you?
 
yeah, i really do, from the men’s perspective, as he is so furious at me for saying it is wrong and perverted and unnatural – maybe as a woman i am just wrong and way out of line as he says.
 
I have 3 daughters in their 20’s. All beautiful, if I may say so as their mom!

But there is NO WAY my husband would ever look at them inappropriately… and be alive to talk about it later.
 
please ask your husbands to get on here and speak to me about this – pm me if he wants to be private – i just need to know truly as he is going to a lawyer today and i need to know so i can speak to a lawyer and make it so he has no unsupervised visitation if that is right. he is so adamant that he is not doing wrong.
 
No - flat out no - from every adult male I know. It is beyond taboo.

You really cannot have let him convince you this is normal?

Have you called the Diocese to report him yet? He has zero business around any child or teen in the school or parish if he has these desires.
 
I am going to send him a link to this thread and site and be ready everyone! Here comes the ‘other side’ you wanted.
 
Hello Rachel, I am a mom of one girl, my mother had 2 of us…My father NOT ONCE ever did he look at us in anyway shape or form than of a father to his children…He treated us always kind and loving nothing ever weird not even out of curiosity! He would always embarass us with his stories of how we would pee on him, cloth diapers back in the day, and he would always rush us to mother…lol

But not once did we ever notice anything weird about my father’s look towards us nor anything that made mother uncomfortable and she was paranoid like that…seriously! She didn’t trust anyone with her kids and she has passed that on to me!!! I am always trying to keep an eye on everyone whom is around my kids…And if I don’t like something I say something or take my kids way from there…

I am sorry if it hurts you to hear that or if you don’t like it or are unwilling to accept but your hubby needs counseling dear…And the sooner the better before his wondering eyes decide to take things further…GOD forbid…

I am sorry you are dealing with such things but that is not normal for a man to not be able to control his eyes let alone his look towards female children…his own especially! 😦

That’s like my friend’s niece, was abused since she was 4 years old, now 9…He would sexually abuse her anally no one found out until one day her mother got home from work early and this is her biological father, because his 4year old was wearing a cute little summer outfit that showed her long legs, some chest and a little of her butt cheeks!! The day they caught him she was 9, growing some breasts all ready and was wearing a cute summer bra like shirt, her mother caught him in the act!!! She had a breakdown and was in the hospital for many months! It’s the worst thing that can happen to a mother and a child…

I am not saying this will happen to yours, but I am saying that it is not normal for a father to look at his daughters in any way other than that of father and daughter…like mother and son and father and son and mother and daughter…

He needs counseling and help immediately…You must take him to the priest or a doctor…

I am sorry for this terrible cross you must bare, hang in there, don’t stop praying, and don’t give up hope! Your husband just needs guidance and help! GOD BLESS!
 
RachelKH said:
yeah, i really do, from the men’s perspective, as he is so furious at me for saying it is wrong and perverted and unnatural – maybe as a woman i am just wrong and way out of line as he says.
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OK then, as a father and grandfather, it is absolutely W R O N G.
there is NO justifying this with any reasoning.

Are the lines of truth THAT blurred in this society, that you even have to ask ?
I’d like to talk to him, send him here.

Can you not believe what JP-II told us men ??? :

“God has assigned as a duty to every man the dignity of every woman.” Pope John Paul II
 
Bob4BVM said:
OK then, as a father and grandfather, it is absolutely W R O N G.
there is NO justifying this with any reasoning.

Are the lines of truth THAT blurred in this society, that you even have to ask ?
I’d like to talk to him, send him here.

Can you not believe what JP-II told us men ??? :

“God has assigned as a duty to every man the dignity of every woman.” Pope John Paul II
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Waiting to hear from him. He can take it off-screen & PM me if he wants.
There IS a way out of this, but he has to ask…
 
He is really busy and only has computer at school, so says he hasn’t even had time to read it all yet –
just was warned by 13yodd’s counselors to keep him away from even the little girls unsupervised, which i am doing anyway
please pray that nothing happened and that if anything did the right things happen now
 
Is it wrong to look at women not your wife? Well, yes. What’s the reason? Why would you? Only for sexual reasons. Only for objectification. It’s wrong.

So, if you indulge in that for years, then, yes, I can see how your actions would break down that natural barrier from looking at your own daughters in that way. Whether on purpose or not, you have systematically overridden a God-given protection of your children. It’s a protection for the father, as well.

The father now has a skewed sense of respect for his daughters - well, really, no respect. They have picked up on this. So, what’s the damage? THAT’S the damage! The inability to have an appropriate relationship with any female.

That can be overcome by not looking at any woman as a collection of body parts, but as a person. It’s actually very easy to look down or to the side instead of staring.
 
Rachel, I was married to a BPD/NPD not too long ago. I know what it is like to not know what is right and what is wrong, because he has called the shots for so long. What helped me most was to start telling, saying things out loud to hear people’s incredulous reactions, and then to allow people (especially healthy married couples) to love me until I was strong enough to do what had to be done.

You need to find your own internal compass again, so that you can get angry and insist on change, without always wondering in the back of your head if you’re the crazy one. It probably took me until six months after the kids and I had moved out, to lose that nagging feeling of disconnect from reality. I was very powerfully loved by one couple in particular, almost re-parented by them. It took a great deal of healing. So please start telling and start pursuing the healthy relationships you will need to help get you out of this disastrous one. Who knows, maybe God will heal your marriage, but you won’t know until you can see what is really going on.
 
Rachel,

Please tell us whatever you can about what is going on right now. You and your family are in the prayers of many of us. How was Thanksgiving? Please check in as soon as you can.
 
Hi and thank you for your prayers and caring. Thanksgiving was good – around 11am he came here to our house (from my parents’ house where he is staying) while we all went over to my parents’ house for the day with extended family. He was crying as we left (he always likes big get-togethers because he is sure to find someone to play with) and I went over and hugged him and told him I understood his pain, but he had to know no one is punishing him (which is what he feels we are doing by keeping him away from our daughters) and that his behavior is the cause and only he can do what needs done to make us a family again and our daughters comfortable around him again. We came home again around 7pm and he got to go back to my parents’ house to see everyone who was still there and eat again (I had made up a big plate of food from the feast and DS2 drove it over to him after the meal, and I’d left 2 pies at home for him too.) It was awkward and tough, but worked.
Things are about the same. He still says he doesn’t look at our daughters, even though he has admitted it and then denied it again. Last night he called and we did the go-round again where I say that he needs to understand that he might be tempted to look at other women but should never even be tempted to look at his own daughters like that and he says he’s not lusting so why am I being so perverted to believe he is and how he is going to get custody of our youngest 2 before I ‘turn them against him like I did to our other girls.’ He says me teaching them to close their bedroom door while changing clothes or the bathroom door while undressed or pottying is sending them the wrong message that their daddy is a pervert. I think he needs to understand that teaching them these things is important (they are 4 and 7yo) and I teach them to be modest around their older brothers and company etc too and that anyone who wants to touch or look at their private parts is doing something wrong, unless it is a doctor or other necessary health need. He thinks his getting dressed with the door open and one of the kids seeing him is not his fault because ‘how was I supposed to know they would be coming by right then?’ and I say just close doors and don’t take chances that could embarrass them or him or why would he do that unless he want to be seen? He was the only male living in a house full of females while the boys were in college. None of the girls has seen the boys ever undressed, just their father. Why is that? Does he just not put any effort or thought into his actions, or is it that he wants to be seen? It is hard to know anything, but he is angry at me for ‘erring on the side of caution’ as he put it. I feel protecting our daughters is more important than anything else right now.
He is looking into buying himself a house and has made a bid on one. He asked me if he buys it will I come over for a sleepover with him, meaning sex I guess. Right now I just can’t think of sex with a man who feels drawn to look at his own daughter’s bottom – is that wrong? I know I am not to deny my husband w/o good reason, but this feels like/looks like good reason to me. I don’t feel married. I don’t feel sex to him is what it should be. I want to just pretend everything is fine and bring him back home to live, but I can’t until I know that he is not looking at our daughters, is not so self-interested that who we are is less important than what he gets from us, if that makes sense.
This is all a muddle and I know how terrible divorce is for children, but what should I do? I need to get with a good priest and a good therapist and a great marriage counselor, I know, and if my children ever get over these awful coughs and cold I hope to do this, but for now I pray and keep him from my teens.
 
OK, if MY dad behaved like that, I’d feel ICKY!!! I already feel icky as a waitress when men stare at me like that (and I’m not even wearing anything remotely “sexy!” It’s like, Dude, let me do my job…and be grateful my male friends aren’t around, they protect me like I’m their little sister). I do give people the glare of death if they even so much as leer at me (and if they complain to management, they’ve got nothing to go on, they’re the ones acting skeevy, not me)…

A good father would WANT his daughters to learn to close their doors, to have control over their bodies. He’d want his sons to learn the same and to look at women respectfully. Otherwise, even if he’s not directly victimizing them, he’s setting them up for future victimization.

For the record, my father and brother know the rules regarding that…yeah, it’s one thing to give your opposite sex child or sibling a bath when they’re two…but as they get older, they need to learn boundaries. If a child doesn’t have the right to say “no” to things that make them feel even the slightest bit off, they won’t say no to some drastic things…and that could cause a ton of damage.

A grown man who wants to see his daughters use the bathroom or change clothes is sketchy, skeevy, you name it. A woman’s body was created in the image of God and was not meant to be objectified, to be treated as a piece of meat and degraded. Any man worth his salt would recognize that: in his friends, his mother, his sister, his wife, his daughters. If not, he’s not a man.

Many prayers for you and your family! How wrong!
 
And objectively, it doesn’t really matter whether he thinks it’s normal or not, or even whether it actually is normal or not. What matters is that he is making you uncomfortable in a Big Way, by something he could easily change, but chooses not to. That is a huge red flag–it’s so incredibly disrespectful of the people he is supposed to love the most.
 
Reminder, let the Protecting God’s Children/Safe Envioronment people at the Diocese have an update on the situation as well.
 
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