Can I get some help with these questions

[twb1621]

There you go again. Accusing me of exactly what I’m accusing the church. Trying to shift blame again I see.
My God got always gets it right the first time, He does not have to fix anything when he is done. it is your God that does not know what he is doing.
My God santifaied the Sabbath and made it Holy. When God came to the earth he kept what he himself proclaimed on mount Sinai when he gived the 10 commandments.
God said that he has magnified his word over all his mane (Psalm 138:2). Why do you think that Jesus had to come to die? Because he said: if you eat the frout or touch it you shall shorly die. Adam and eve had to die according to the law. When God said it, it became law. But God loved us and he new that we were deceived by the Devil that said: you shall not shorely die. Remember this quote I wil get back to that in a minute.
Jesus came because the law had to be fulfill, it is unchangeable. It is there for a reason. Do you think that God will tell us to do something just because he feels like it. Every thing has a reason
God give us the Sabbath day to keep holy, it his his day alone. Jesus said I am lord of the Sabbath. Did he say he is lord of any other day of the week? No. he said the Sabbath. It is his day. On that day you do his will not your. Now I know some of you will want to think that God is the lord of every day of the week and that is true, because he made them all, all 7 days, but he made one day especially for himself. He des not require you to keep holy any other day. What did Jesus say? Six days you shall labor and do all THY work but the sevent day id the Lords. It is his day. And his alone. Now thing about this a bit. Where in the bible is the Sabbath day not linked with joy and happiness, a time of sharing and rejoicing? The bible says: Isaiah 58:13,14:
13. If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
14: Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
Yes my fiend, May god got it right the first time around. It is your God tha needed to change things, not mine.
It seams to me that you think that by my statement of 2 churches in bible prophecy that God had something to do with the catholic church. If that is your assumption you had better read it again.
The bible speaks about 2 churches in Revelation. The true one in 12: 1, and the false one in 17:1. The true is in hiding for 1260 prophetic days or years (12:6, 14). Time is 1 year and times are 2 years and half a time is half a year (Daniel 4:16, 23, 30-33, 34,) notice also that in vers 34 he says: at the end of the days his reasoning came back to him, he was like that for 7 years, so 7 times is 7 years, a time is a year, how do we know that a day is a year in prophetic time period? (numbers 14:34).
So we have 2 churches, one is persecutes for 1260 years and the other rules the intire earth (rev 13:7).
Now tell me? What church at one point rules the entire earth? What church had crusades? What church rules the intire earth for 1260 year? Was the church in hiding when she rules the world? Of course not, that would be silly if you say yes, how could she be in hiding if she rules the world?
So; what church was hiding for thouse 1260 years? The true church was in hiding.
One more thing, about the serpants words:” thou shall not surely dies”. Tell who still teach that doctrine today? Answer me this question? What do you teach happens when you die? Is the person dead or is he still alive somewhere? And how long will he be alive in heaven or hell? Will he ever dies or stop burnig? God said he shall surely dies but you say no, he shall not surly die; he will burn for ever and ever. So now you know were that doctrine comes from. It Is not from the God that created heaven and earth because he said the opposite of what you teach.

[continue on next post]

Like many others, your group takes the Catholic Bible out of its eliment and distorts it to fit your own thoughts and then claims you (and thousands like you) are the true faith. Why do you claim to believe in Jesus and blaspheme against His word? You go back and forth between the Old Testament and New Testament using the Old Testament to discredit the New, the word Of Christ. If you do not think you do, go back and answer all the posts you hide from. Jesus is the fulfillment of the Old Testament and continues the word of God but you deny His authority clearly proclaimed in the New Testament and what. Some man that came along and claimed to be a new “apostle”. How do you deny Jesus word? Please go back and answer all those posts you hide from.

 

[twb1621]

who said that God had any hting to do with the Catholic church? God church kept the Sabbath just like Jesus do. not Sunday, like i said we have the popes to blaim for that change, not God.

what i write must realy be confusing to you. that text say it is like, not it is. my text say it is. that is the deference.
and another thing, i dont read that version of the bible. that is almost a Catholic bible in my sight.

that bible has intire veres deleted and in one but it had just as much changes as the boot had verses. it is not called internation for nothing. that bible they would advice you to read, because it is almost the same thing you have.

i dont need anyone to make it simple for me with there own words. they can keep it.

but that is just my openion.

God spoke from on high and told the aposles, this is My beloved Son, listen to Him. You do not listen to Him. Your have to revert to the Old Testament to see what you can distort to try to support what you say against the teachings of Jesus. Thats called minipulation and distortion which Jesus warned all about when referring to His Church.

 

[twb1621]

It doesn’t matter, Dnelson would never attempt to respond to my points or yours on this issue.

Yes you are right again Marsha…

 

[greggy53]

so what you are telling me is that the bible writer did not know what jesus ment when he said that? but you know what he meant and the bible writer did not. Interesting …

Of course Jesus knew what he meant. He meant and said rock…In Aramaic. I think you understand what we mean more than you let on.

Another point to take into account is that you say the church is infallible right Now just after Jesus said that to him, Jesus turn around and called him Satan. This is point number one…

Who said the Church is infallible?..Peter also denied our Lord 3 times. Peter was as humanas you and me and the Pope. None of us are sinless.

Now we may say that Jesus did not put the church on him jet. Ok that is a possibility too. Because it is obvious the gates of hell prevail over him at that time. That is of course if you want to say that jesus did not know what he was doing or saying. Point number two…

Peter sinning does not mean that the gates of hell prevailed upon the Church. what it does mean that decievers, and their false teachings will not prevail against the Church.

When Peter went to visit the believers that Paul had converted, Paul had to talk down to him for being 2 faced with the converted gentile believers. He was still holding on to the circumcision of the Jews, when that was no longer required. Jesus had fulfilled all of those ceremonial requirements. Point number 3…

This is the weakest argument of all. Paul argues with Peter because of Peter’s behavior not his teaching. Peter is not perfect. But Peter was the first Pope.

 

[twb1621]

So; what church was hiding for thouse 1260 years? The true church was in hiding.
One more thing, about the serpants words:” thou shall not surely dies”. Tell who still teach that doctrine today? Answer me this question? What do you teach happens when you die? Is the person dead or is he still alive somewhere? And how long will he be alive in heaven or hell? Will he ever dies or stop burnig? God said he shall surely dies but you say no, he shall not surly die; he will burn for ever and ever. So now you know were that doctrine comes from. It Is not from the God that created heaven and earth because he said the opposite of what you teach.

[continue on next post]

Its interesting that you go against so many words of Jesus in this claim. Now realizing Jesus proclaimed the way to the Father was through Him and that He would suffer and die so that all men may be saved and declared all nations to be taught the gospel, in this statement you not only claim the church was in hiding, by doing so you deny her availability to offer salvation to anyone during your 1260 years which means anyone who lived during that period was just ------- out of luck and went to hell because they had no exposure to the salvation of Christ.

This is one of many posts you refused to respond to so I am raising the question again;

Recorded history proves the origin and lineage of the Catholic Church from the establishment laid by Jesus through His apostles and their successors. The Apostles continued the growth and establishment of the Church through the assignment of their successors and the formation of the hierarchy. These are the very same Faithful followers who came to be know as “Christians” in Antioch and a short time later recognized as the “universal” or “Catholic Church”. Through the Gospel Jesus proclaims the Church He founded will never fall but He also clearly warned there would be corrupt men (wolves) who would violate her and deceive others. That those corrupt would cause many to follow the wrong path by distorting His word not only from outside His Church but from within at times. All of these prophecies we have seen including the corruption outside as well as those who deceived with His word from within the Church such as Martin Luther. There are many verses in Gospel that point all these violations against His Church out. It is also proclaimed that the Church WILL be of one God and One Faith and nowhere in scripture does it say derivatives with there own beliefs will be acceptable. It is specific to only one Faith and one God. The following verses are some of those attesting to these prophecies and proclamations;

Latin Vulgate (The first Holy Bible compiled, translated to Latin and canonized by the Catholic Church)
**Jesus said, **
**Mat. Ch16; 15-19 “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter said in reply, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” Jesus answered, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” **

Luke CH22; 31 “And the Lord said: Simon, Simon, behold Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you all as wheat: 32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and thou, being once converted, confirm thy brethren.”

Jesus said:
“…I am the good shepherd, and I know mine and mine know me, just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I will lay down my life for the sheep. I have other sheep that do not belong to this fold. These also I must lead, and they will hear my voice, and there will be one flock, one shepherd.” (Jn 10:14-16)

Matthew CH24; 4 “And Jesus answering, said to them: Take heed that no man seduce you: 5 For many will come in my name saying, I am Christ: and they will seduce many. 6 And you shall hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that ye be not troubled. For these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; and there shall be pestilences, and famines, and earthquakes in places: 8 Now all these are the beginnings of sorrows. 9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall put you to death: and you shall be hated by all nations for my name’s sake. 10 And then shall many be scandalized: and shall betray one another: and shall hate one another. 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall seduce many. 12 And because iniquity hath abounded, the charity of many shall grow cold. 13 But he that shall persevere to the end, he shall be saved.”

Acts Ch20; 28 “Take heed to yourselves, and to the whole flock, wherein the Holy Ghost hath placed you bishops, to rule the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. 29 I know that, after my departure, ravening wolves will enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30And of your own selves shall arise men speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.”

continued next post…

 

[twb1621]

**

So; what church was hiding for thouse 1260 years? The true church was in hiding.

**

Continued from previous post; **
1 Corinthians CH12; “12*** For as the body is one, and hath many members; and all the members of the body, whereas they are many, yet are one body, so also is Christ. 13 For in one Spirit (The Holy Spirit) were we all baptized into one body (Church), whether Jews or Gentiles, whether bond or free; and in one Spirit we have all been made to drink. 14 For the body also is not one member, but many (the established church including the faithful******). 15 If the foot should say, because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 16 And if the ear should say, because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 17 If the whole body were the eye, where would be the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where would be the smelling? 18 But now God hath set the members every one of them in the body as it hath pleased him. 19 And if they all were one member, where would be the body? 20 But now there are many members indeed, yet one body. ***
21*** And the eye cannot say to the hand: I need not thy help; nor again the head to the feet: I have no need of you. 22 Yea, much more those that seem to be the more feeble members of the body, are more necessary. 23 And such as we think to be the less honourable members of the body, about these we put more abundant honour; and those that are our uncomely parts, have more abundant comeliness. 24 But our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, giving to that which wanted the more abundant honour, 25 That there might be no schism in the body; but the members might be mutually careful one for another***.
26 If (one) part suffers, all the parts suffer with it; if one part is honored, all the parts share its joy. 27 Now you are Christ’s body, and individually parts of it. 28 Some people God has designated in the church to be, first, apostles; second, prophets; third, teachers; then, mighty deeds; then, gifts of healing, assistance, administration, and varieties of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work mighty deeds? 30 Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? 31 Strive eagerly for the greatest spiritual gifts. But I shall show you a still more excellent way. ”
Colossians CH1; 18***** “And he is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he may hold the primacy: 19 Because in him, it hath well pleased the Father, that all fullness should dwell; 20 And through him to reconcile all things unto himself, making peace through the blood of his cross, both as to the things that are on earth, and the things that are in heaven******. ***
21*** And you, whereas you were some time alienated and enemies in mind in evil works: 22 Yet now he hath reconciled in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unspotted, and blameless before him: 23 If so ye continue in the faith, grounded and settled, and immoveable from the hope of the gospel which you have heard, which is preached in all the creation that is under heaven, whereof I Paul am made a minister. 24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up those things that are wanting of the sufferings of Christ, in my flesh, for his body, which is the church******.”***

No where in Scripture does it say the Church Jesus founded would end, go into hiding, become corrupt and fail or be reestablished at any time or by any man before His return. On the contrary. It proclaims everything but these things to occur. If in fact the Catholic Church was not the true Church as some other “Christian” faiths were led to believe, one would have to know which Faith was the True Faith. After all, there must be one (and only one) because the Bible testifies to it and to the fact it must be visible, obvious, and is of only “one God, one Faith, one body and one Baptism”… So which one has been established by Jesus through the Apostles and their successors and has maintained consistency since His crucifixion without interruption as Jesus proclaimed AND has all the Characteristics to identify it Biblically?

 

[Philthy]

dnelson001:

at least i can think and reason with God for my questions.

You are wasting time on distractions when you should be building the fortress of your faith. That fortress has the Bible as it’s foundation, the interpretations you derive from the Bible are only useful AFTER you have determined WHAT EXACTLY the Bible is. Try and stay focused…

your teaches you that you are simple and should not read the bible much less try to interpre it.

False witness! That command is no less binding than the Sabbath!!!

i know the bible to be the truth because it reviels the future in detail. buy the prophecies.

I hope this is not your response to the question of which books belong in the Bible, when they were compiled, and who compiled them. The followers of Nostradamos’ writings make the same claim that you have made as do others. Get real. Did you do any research or are you simply as ignorant of the history of Christianity as your writings - and lack of them! - suggest?

did you know that the church fits every possible discription if the (name removed by moderator)ure woman? i mean evry single one. just pul one out ogf the box for me. an i will show you wee it fulfills it.
frighning isnt it? you care to pul one out for me?

**You’ll do anything to avoid the topic **of who - exactly - compiled the Bible, when - exactly- did they do it, and how - exactly do you know? Your rants are drawing others with less discipline and experience than myself into actually engaging you, but I am not fooled one bit by your diversions! I know when someone is avoiding a debate, and **I know that you are afraid to discuss the history of the Bible. **You could, of course, claim I’m wrong, but nothing short of demonstrating it will do. I’m writing these words to help you! Prove me wrong!

and you speak as though you have looked it up for your self. what a joke. you would belive anything any one tells you. i feel sory for you. i really do.

Your attempted insults - another form of diversion from the topic you are afraid to discuss - do not offend me at all! This discussion has nothing to do with me. My heart and my mind are focused on one issue:
**Who compiled your bible? When did they do it? How do you know? **

Oh well, i can only try.

Yes, please try and tell me with all your research, wisdom, interpretive skills and analytical reasoning the answer to my simple questions:
**Who compiled your bible? When did they do it? How do you know?

**Blessings

 

[jmcrae]

so what you are telling me is that the bible writer did not know what jesus ment when he said that? but you know what he meant and the bible writer did not. Interesting .

The “Bible writer” was St. Matthew, and of course he knew what he was writing. He made the word “Petra” (which is a feminine noun in the Greek) into a male form of the same word (“Petros”) in order to make it suitable as a man’s name.

Please keep in mind that the meaning of “little stone” was not in use at that time for that word - St. Matthew had only just invented it!! If St. Matthew had intended to mean “little stone” he would have named him “Lithos” and not “Petros.”

But if Jesus had not intended to refer to Simon Peter at the time that He made this statement, there would have been no point in re-naming him anything at all - He would have just said, “Hey Simon I am the Rock of faith and it has nothing to do with you.”

I have never seen a Protestant make sense of the fact that Jesus gives Simon a new name - Peter - at the same moment that He says, “Upon this peter I shall build my Church.”

 

[Des]

Paul knew that the jews would make a big thing out of thimoty.

Correctamundo!

From the words of Saint Jerome who’s Biblical understanding I’d take over yours anyday:

"O blessed Apostle Paul, who has rebuked Peter for dissimulation, because he withdrew himself from the Gentiles through fear of the Jews who’ came from James, why art thou, notwithstanding thine own doctrine, compelled to circumcise Timothy, the son of a Gentile, nay more, a Gentile himself (for he was not a Jew, having not been circumcised)? Thou wilt answer, ‘Because of the Jews which are in these quarters.?’ If, then, thou forgiveth thyself the circumcision of a disciple coming from the Gentiles, forgive Peter also, who has precedence above thee, his doing some things of the same kind through fear of the believing Jews."

and he also knew that peter was going to be little help.

You make no sense again but whatever! And start answering Philthy’s question cause you’re only hurting your credibility here by ignoring them.

 

[Joe_5859]

**Who compiled your bible? When did they do it? How do you know? **

We should all add this to our signatures. There’s really not much point in debating anything else until we get an answer to these questions.

 

[Dchsknight]

We should all add this to our signatures. There’s really not much point in debating anything else until we get an answer to these questions.

I just did!

This Dnelson is something else. He just doe snot get it and He ignores those who have him trapped!

 

[Joe_5859]

I just did!

This Dnelson is something else. He just doe snot get it and He ignores those who have him trapped!

Not that our intent is to “trap” him. The question of how the Bible came together and how we know it was put together correctly is a very important one that we should all have an answer to. I am very interested in what dnelson’s answer is.

 

[Shannon9791]

I just wish dNelson would answer some of what MarshaAdams has asked him. I’ve been reading this thread all the way through, and I get the sneaky suspicion that he’s just talking (typing) to hear himself talk. He hasn’t made any sense in over half the posts he’s made, and he hasn’t really contributed anything to any sort of debate. Although he did say he would not allow an extra-biblical source to be used in discussion (I think he said that to tbb1621 but it might have been to Philty) but he used one in post #239. It seems that it’s OK for him to set up parameters for debate and bounce outside of them when it works for him.

I have one question for him, though. Why are you here? Can you give us your motive for coming on this forum and attempting to debate here? I’m sure I’m not the only person here who would like an answer to that question. Well that one and why haven’t you answered MarshaAdams?

 

[placido]

dnelson001:

So; what church was hiding for thouse 1260 years? The true church was in hiding.

Dnelson, please be serious. You know that Jesus, being God, is not that stupid as to found a Church and then hiding it. "“No one lights a lamp and puts it in a hiding place or under a basket, but on a lamp stand, so that those who enter may see its light” - Luke 11:33.

dnelson001:

i know the bible to be the truth because it reviels the future in detail. buy the prophecies.

The Bible is not only about the future. It reveals the past (the birth, the preaching, the miracles, the death, the resurrection and ascension of our Redeemer) in detail.

Philthy:

Who compiled your bible? When did they do it? How do you know?

Brother, let’s keep hoping because nothing is impossible. Dnelson may - one of the good days - come up with a satisfactory response to those questions.

placido

 

[placido]

Dnelson, please be serious. You know that Jesus, being God, is not that stupid as to found a Church and then hiding it. "“No one lights a lamp and puts it in a hiding place or under a basket, but on a lamp stand, so that those who enter may see its light” - Luke 11:33.

Any takers? It has been 24 hours ever since I posted this in response to the allegation that the church was in hiding for 1260 years … oh yeah, Dnelson is busy sabbath-keeping!

dnelson001:

i know the bible to be the truth because it reviels the future in detail.

William Miller and his followers believed likewise, but were greatly disappointed. Remember the Great Disappointment of the 1840’s?

placido

 

[Philthy]

this is a good question. please give me a few day to see what i find and get back to you ok.
and you can believe that i will be back with facts. and if i cant find anything I’m not afaied to say i don’t know.
so give me a few days ok.

thank you for your patience with me.and may God bless you.

:yawn:

 

[Des]

Dnelson is busy sabbath-keeping!

Wouldn’t being online trying to convert us ‘poor ignorant Catholics’ to the Truth be the right thing to do as Jesus was doing when He preached on the Sabbath. After all, the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath.

 

[placido]

dnelson001:

this is a good question. please give me a few day to see what i find and get back to you ok.
and you can believe that i will be back with facts. and if i cant find anything I’m not afaied to say i don’t know.
so give me a few days ok.

We are still waiting brother but I am starting to wonder how many days are “few days”.

placido

 

[Philthy]

"dnelson001:

i know the bible to be the truth because it reviels the future in detail.

William Miller and his followers believed likewise, but were greatly disappointed. Remember the Great Disappointment of the 1840’s?
placido

Ouch!!! I wonder, “Is it still possible to misinterpret “the future” in the bible?” :yup:

 

[greggy53]

Any takers? It has been 24 hours ever since I posted this in response to the allegation that the church was in hiding for 1260 years … oh yeah, Dnelson is busy sabbath-keeping!

William Miller and his followers believed likewise, but were greatly disappointed. Remember the Great Disappointment of the 1840’s?

placido

From what I have read the SDA have not renounced the false prophesies of Ms White because after the second prediction of Christ’s coming failed to come to pass ( in the 1840’s) one of her followers had a 'revelation" that Christ did indeed return, but it was a secret, spiritual return where some cleansing of some kind of temple took place.